[Closed] If you want to save your NHS...

noteeth - Member

I can't decide if Lansley is mendacious

NHS papers expose risks of health reforms

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/feb/14/nhs-health-social-care-bill

Letters from GPs

I have resigned from general practice as a result of the damaging interference by this government in the running of the NHS which, for the first time since I had qualified in 1984, showed signs of improvement and progression as a result of Labour's changes (What revolt? Cameron ready to force through NHS bill, 11 February). Patient care was improving markedly, resulting in reductions in waiting times, improved quality and speed of care, improvements in mortality and morbidity from chronic disease such as heart disease and cancer, with GPs and hospital doctors being able to see that their hard work had some effect over NHS outcomes. The NHS was going in the right direction, and the Conservatives promised in their pre-election campaign that they would not interfere with the NHS.

to create the conditions

I appreciate that, TJ - the whole thing is so obviously a pre-prepared [i]blitzkrieg[/i], and entirely at odds with CMD's promises of no new top down re-organisation.

It's his convictions that interest me (e.g his recent article in the [url= http://www.hsj.co.uk/comment/opinion/andrew-lansley-competition-is-critical-for-nhs-reform/5041288.article ]HSJ[/url]).

Everybody: "This is turning into a car crash..."

Lansley: "Keep driving!"

Its because its his payoff. he gets this thru he is a multimillinaire. Its completely medacious - he knows its got no sense behind it other than the privatisation. He don't care - he is doing what he is paid to do buy the private health companies

“In total, as reported in the Daily Mirror on January 19, the Conservative Party has received over £750,000 in donations from private healthcare companies.”

Last month’s Mirror investigation found private health bosses who gave money to the Health Secretary are set to profit from his controversial NHS shake-up.

Hedge fund boss John Nash and his wife Caroline are Conservative donors with close ties to the healthcare industry.

Together they have given £203,500 to the party over the past five years – including £21,000 for Mr Lansley to bankroll his office before the Conservatives took power.

Mr Nash was chairman of Care UK, which makes most of its money from the NHS, when most of the donations were made. He is also a founder of City firm Sovereign Capital, which runs a string of private healthcare firms. Fellow founder Ryan Robson has given the Tories £252,429.45.

Good post on Lansley here:

http://abetternhs.wordpress.com/

Its because its his payoff.

It's also just a simple ideological commitment. I have an ideological commitment to keep the profit motive out of healthcare, Lansley has an ideological commitment to introduce the profit motive into healthcare. It's that simple I'm afraid. Today's Conservatives are ideologically very close to their US counterparts, as former Tory Shadow Health Sec. Liam Fox proved when he set up the Atlantic Bridge "charity". Atlantic Bridge had very close links with the Tea Party conservatives in the US who fought so hard against Obama's healthcare reforms.

I appreciate that, TJ - the whole thing is so obviously a pre-prepared blitzkrieg, and entirely at odds with CMD's promises of no new top down re-organisation.

Yup, at three times the size of the legislation which created the NHS 1946, this bill has clearly been at the planning stage for a very long time. Although it was obviously imperative that the Tories lie to the British people and claim that there would be no major re-organisation of the NHS. And they know that once introduced, any future Labour government, will as always, be too spineless to reverse anything which the Tories have done.

So Cameron lied to achieve his ultimate goal. Although it has to be said that the British electorate, to their credit, didn't trust him and he failed to win the general election.

We can all thank the Liberal Democratics for saving the day for the Tories and allowing this hated piece of legislation to become law.

Just read the original post, not going to try and join in with the debate. But I find it quite amusing/ironic/annoying that for someone saying we don't want the American way spells organisation and recognise with a Z!

Signed, and shared on FB. For all the good that it will do. 🙁

But I find it quite amusing/ironic/annoying that for someone saying we don't want the American way spells organisation and recognise with a Z!

Maybe they have nothing against the US, or the American way of spelling, but just don't want US style healthcare in the UK ?

A lot of people in the US are very unhappy with their healthcare provisions you know, and I suspect they also spell words with a z rather than an s.

Ernie, I thought I made it clear I wasn't joining in... I do reserve the right to use English 😉

I have spent the last half hour reading through this. I haven't read the reports/newspaper articles etc... but I read a lot of people saying what we shouldn't do, but no-one coming up with what we should do. Everyone blames the Tories, but no-one blames labour for the last 14 years or so of over spending which has left the country on its knees.

I don't know what the answers are, but in every sense the country needs to spend less and earn more. Where it starts and ends...

Cap benefits to 27k dammed right!
A war in Iraq? Afghanistan? No
Bail out the banks? No
Get rid of the nhs? Big fat no.

Like I said ernie, I don't know, but someone who is clear about what shouldn't happen should have an idea about what should.
T

goatster - Member
Just read the original post, not going to try and join in with the debate. But I find it quite amusing/ironic/annoying that for someone saying we don't want the American way spells organisation and recognise with a Z!

Everyone blames the Tories, but no-one blames labour for the last 14 years or so of over spending which has left the country on its knees.

So why don't you do something about it and blame the last Labour government for the Health and Social Care Bill which will soon become law ?

If no one's doing it, and you're not prepared to do it, then you really can't complain - can you ?

goatster

I put my positive solutions in

Everyone blames the Tories, but no-one blames labour for the last 14 years or so of over spending which has left the country on its knees.

Which is simply not true - less taxation that most of Europe and lower spending - Germany has higher taxation then you have compulsory health insurance on top which is a significant % of your earnings

Tj I say overspending, you say lower taxation... maybe the two are related? A very left wins friend once suggested we should all pay more tax ergo the country couldn't overspend. I would also like to read your suggestions, I will look again later. But if as you say the country hasn't been overspending, why have we got a record deficit?

Ernie, I did what I could at the general election.

Ernie, I did what I could at the general election.

That's good to hear.

What did you do ?

Didn't vote labour.

Ah, I'm starting to see the problem.

Did you vote Conservative or Liberal Democrat ?

goatster - undertaking. Tax to German levels then we would have loads of money for public sector services - tehy pay a couple of % more tax but most of their healthcare is not funded from taxation whereas most of ours is so effectively they are taxed significantly higher

Tj, there we are then, if we all pay a bit more tax then nothing will need changing. I can see a flaw in the marketing campaign for whichever Party takes that one on. 🙂

Seriously that is exactly the problem, everyone wants to pay less in, take more out and ignore the debt. We, the country, need to manage the debt, reduce it and then build a sustainable future. If that means a 2 percent increase in tax then fine but no-one will vote it in, leaving cuts.

109,965 now. Even made Sky midnight news.
Not STW or TJ,ernie's and other's reasoning but the petition 🙂

An interesting blog showing the number and depth of links between the tories and private health companies.

http://socialinvestigations.blogspot.com/2012/02/nhs-privatisation-compilation-of.html

this "reform" is all about privatisation for either ideological or corrupt reasons. its nothing to do with improving the NHS