[Closed] If cyclists were licensed and bikes were "taxed"...

No, simple answer.

Nope

Pretty sure I paid tax on my last bike.

So No.

So what would happen?

If they're taxed on pollution as per VED then they'd be free, so it would raise no revenue, but cost millions to implement, so completely pointless....

No

Caravanners are licensed and VEDed, they get just as much hatred.

No. Motorists don't have an issue with cyclists because they aren't licensed or don't have to have insurance. Those are just excuses to hide their self-entitlement issues that driving a car seems to give so many people.

I shall adopt footflaps excellent post as my argument in future, should it be required. Bike is low emissions, hence zero VED. I like it.

Given that there are many road users who take no notice of other, taxed etc, road users already, one does have to wonder why anyone would think this would make a scrap of difference.

Bad road users would remain just that. Ditto good ones. The only real change would be the almost inevitably massive fiscal cock up and overspend involved in implementing anything like this.

No.

of course not.

[s]drivers[/s] idiots who rant about cyclists are not being reasonable - they make up imaginary things about 'road tax', and non-existent rules in the highway code.

giving into idiots and their stupidity won't turn them into sensible, rational people.

Not that I can imagine, the issues are with impatience, 'us vs them', 'in group/out group' mentality.

For instance, a motorist who is not also a cyclist may see all manner of twottish behaviour from other motorists and never blame 'motorists', yet the minute that twottish road user is a cyclist - you can guess the rest.

As for respect, lack of respect is only part of it, basic education as to the highway code is lacking, as evidenced from ranty anti-cyclist articles such as the recently pulled Motorsport one.

These are my thoughts exactly. Interesting to see that the NSW government is considering something along these lines.
I do think it would be funny to implement it for a trial period so all the cocks who complain (incorrectly) about road tax, and that cyclists need licenses could see that it will have no effect. In fact, given that the cocks in cars think cyclists have no right to be on the road as they don't carry a tax disc, if we did have to,I reckon more cyclists would ride more assertively.

Nope, nee chance.

The anti-cycling mindset adopted by many motorists is very interesting and worrying! I was talking to two different colleauges recently who are very clever, great at what they do, nice people, etc. etc.

but as soon as the conversation turned to cyclists it was f**ing this t***t's that! Unbelievable and left me thinking about it more and more but can't understand it.

Given that there are many road users who take no notice of other, taxed etc, road users already, one does have to wonder why anyone would think this would make a scrap of difference?

This. It's not working for motorised vehicles at the moment...

You'll notice that all the anti-cycling rants rely on anecdote/personal information rather than data or downright factual inaccuracy, which never stands up to scrutiny - which tells you it's just prejudice and inability to cope with change.

Edit: I get tailgated all the time when I drive at 30 in a 30 limit. My car is fully taxed and insured...

samuri got it spot on.

they would accept our position and right to be on the road if:
-we got 'out the way' of them
-didn't filter past them in queues
-let them overtake seconds before they were turning off
-didn't get to places quicker than them
-had engines

These cars don't pay "road tax" either:

[img] http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/76/DEF3AF5D90E06B68F4FE136EF9F.jpg [/img][img] http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/8E/4B123F25DF74D89DE0312E34C2A.jpg [/img][img] http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/88/539BC3D0B459BABF5DBE43F407F4D.jpg [/img][img] http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/64/8E13B6C08C74DDEDE781AD8F1A1E1.jpg [/img][img] http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/EA/AF5E5FF94AD7F4E693A7BDC550C283.jp g" target="_blank">http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/76/DEF3AF5D90E06B68F4FE136EF9F.jpg [/img][img] http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/8E/4B123F25DF74D89DE0312E34C2A.jpg [/img][img] http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/88/539BC3D0B459BABF5DBE43F407F4D.jpg [/img][img] http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/64/8E13B6C08C74DDEDE781AD8F1A1E1.jpg [/img][img] http://db2.stb.s-msn.com/i/EA/AF5E5FF94AD7F4E693A7BDC550C283.jp g"/> [/img]

When was the last time you saw someone ranting that they had no right to be on the road?

It's just a handy way for them to get into "them and us" tribal mentality. If it wasn't "road tax" it'd be tests, insurance, number plates, red light jumping, riding in the primary, parking, etc etc

but as soon as the conversation turned to cyclists it was f**ing this t***t's that! Unbelievable and left me thinking about it more and more but can't understand it.

I know several like this.

And they're motorcyclists too.

How much is a typical annual "tax disc" these days, for a pretty much bog standard car?
Used to be about 100 quid when I lived, there, so I'll assume 200 quid now. My last bike was bought in UK for 2 grand, so that's 400quid in VAT. Taking a typical 12k miles per year (well that's what they'll tell direct line), I reckon I am now *[u]entitled[/u]* to a good 20-25k miles of cycling on UK roads.

The lowest emission cars already pay no tax so why would cycles? Most car drivers seem blind to the fact that you don't pay to use the road but instead you pay to use a car on the road based on the amount of pollution produced. Pedestrians, wheelchairs,horses and prams all use the roads too and I've never seen anything about them paying tax.

They'd just find something else to moan about instead, the problem is the type of car driver that moans about cyclists is the type of person who thinks they have right of way regardless, the tax thing is just something they latch onto,
If we did pay tax they'd just come up with some other bollocks to try to justify their shit because their real problem is they're too self important and safely isolated in their tin box to slow down for a little bit, every journey is time critical it seems..
I had someone turning purple with rage because I stopped and shooed a duck off the road rather than run it over once 😕 the thirty seconds it took was just too much for them to bear..

It's all back to front though isn't it - some are licensed to use the road (license in the sense of 'have permission'). Others don't require a license (permission) so must be the ones who are there by right.

car drivers don't have a right to be on the road, they are licensed to use the road.

Cyclists have a right to use the road.

Have to get rid of "car tax" entirely. And I mean completely entirely, not even anything that's technically an emissions tax, but completely remove any compulsory payment or proof of compliance associated with a single vehicle to be permitted to use the road.

Raise the money by other means.

I've never had the "road tax" argument while out on my bike

I'd hope it would go something like this:

ANGRY MOTORIST: You don't even pay "road tax"
ME: Actually I'll think you find I do, this year I paid £200 "road tax" for my car which is Band H. You would have paid £125 for that Band E Diesel shit box you call a car. So if you fancy having an argument about "road tax" best pay me the difference first or just shut the **** up instead!

car drivers don't have a right to be on the road, they are licensed to use the road.

Cyclists have a right to use the road.

No, simple answer.

From wikipedia...

Various classes and uses of vehicle are provided with a tax disc without charge. These include: electrically propelled vehicles, vehicles constructed before 1974, trams, vehicles which cannot convey people, police vehicles, fire engines, ambulances and health service vehicles, mine rescue vehicles, lifeboat vehicles, certain road construction and maintenance vehicles, vehicles for disabled people, certain agricultural and land maintenance vehicles, road gritters and snow ploughs, vehicles undergoing statutory tests, vehicles imported by members of foreign armed forces, and crown vehicles.[11] It should be noted that although police vehicles are in fact crown vehicles and therefore exempt from the requirement for a tax disc, they generally display them regardless to suppress complaints from members of the public who might be stopped for failure to display a valid tax disc on their own vehicle, and thus make accusations of double-standards, no matter the lack of merit.

No. Motorists don't have an issue with cyclists because they aren't licensed or don't have to have insurance. Those are just excuses to hide their self-entitlement issues that driving a car seems to give so many people.

This, and what GrahamS said too.
If it were really about money spent then people who spend less on driving related-taxes would happily defer to people who spend more... right?

I saw this on twitter earlier:

[img] [/img]

Yep, insulting and threatening to kill a mother and child for having the audacity to cycle along a residential street. 😯

Do you think his mind would be changed if they had paid some road tax?

If it wasn't "road tax" it'd be tests, insurance, number plates

Which is my point. Take away all of those arguments to prove to the motorust that they're not valid.

I think maybe a better question is what is it about Anglophone countries that seem to make this such an issue.

Australians in particular seem to keep moaning about something called "rego" which cyclist don't pay

In the US its "State and Federal taxes" - probably

Our European friends don't seem to have them same issue

Take away all of those arguments to prove to the motorust that they're not valid.

The only way you'll take away ALL those arguments is to get everyone to stop cycling and take the car.

Course not- the whole "you don't pay road tax" thing is just a token effort to justify an irrational dislike, it's not the cause.

That tweet ^^^ is truely nasty. Can it not be reported to the Police?

People's attitude to cyclists is truly shocking - I'm not sure people are aware how they sound when they come out with stuff like that.

Stanley Millgram and whoever ran the Stanford Prison experiment would no doubt have something interesting to say about how well-protected metal boxes insulate people from the harm they do...

You know, I have never, ever, not once seen someone write that on here.

I have seen it once on here, which is why I was repeating it.

Was it from you ?

The only way some motorists will stop hating cyclists, is if we all stop cycling.

car drivers don't have a right to be on the road, they are licensed to use the road.

Cyclists have a right to use the road.

It's a nice sort of theory (although you'll note which of the two groups can use motorways) but it's pretty meaningless - there would loads of wailing and gnashing of teeth were the government to ban cycling on A-roads (say), but do you really think they couldn't do so if wanted to?

The only way some motorists will stop hating cyclists, is if we all stop cycling.

I can deal with being hated. It's the driving straight at me which scares me.

But this happens when I'm in my car and running/walking as well.

I know it feels like we're under attack when riding sometimes but my observation is it's wider than car vs cyclist - there's a much bigger problem about how some people display psychopathic behaviour when they get in the driving seat...

That tweet ^^^ is truely nasty. Can it not be reported to the Police?

Tricky - he doesn't make a direct threat - he could easily argue that he was just observing that she was putting herself at risk of harm, not threatening that harm himself.

Sadly though it's not exactly an isolated case. Read [url= https://twitter.com/CycleHatred/ ]CycleHatred on twitter[/url] for a thoroughly depressing insight into how [i]some[/i] idiots see cyclists.

Here are some (censored) recent ones:

Kill all bike riders just drive over em easy as lol

Can't stand cyclists who feel they belong out in the middle of the lane #youbelongbythecurb #gobses #petpeeve

Sometimes when I'm waiting for my bus and a cyclist passes by I just want to closeline one of these b**s #RandomFactAboutMe

Cyclists who don't use the cycle lane deserve to be run over

The audacity of bicyclists these days...like do to want me to run you over!?

[img] [/img]

cannot stand cyclists, get out of the middle of my lane so I can get 'round you ? idiot

If I was given 24hrs to live I would borrow my pals van and run over as many cyclist as possible.. Specially them soapy courier ones

Little message to all the cyclists in the Tameside area. Get on the pavement or get a f****g bus.

Most dangerous road users in London are cyclists. They are a menace to pedestrians. Can't believe they want the right to cycle on pavements.

🙁

How do we appease these people?

By getting in a car and joining the queue, preferably behind them.

Most dangerous road users in London are cyclists. They are a menace to pedestrians.

I refuse to read any of those twitter feeds, farcebook pages, etc. just as I also refuse to pay attention to any of those cyclist video youtube pages where the guy shouts out the car reg. numbers of every other car.

Getting put in a wooden box by some nutter in a van is one thing. I'd rather not do it myself by getting stressed beyond healthy levels.

Getting put in a wooden box by some nutter in a van is one thing. I'd rather not do it myself by getting stressed beyond healthy levels.

[i]"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."[/i]

I refuse to read any of those twitter feeds, farcebook pages, etc. just as I also refuse to pay attention to any of those cyclist video youtube pages where the guy shouts out the car reg. numbers of every other car.

Same, have unfollowed all the crazy-numberplate-shouty-people!

My standard answer to morons stating that cyclists shouldn't be on the road as they don't pay "road tax" is generally the following which I found somewhere once:

By that logic, you shouldn't be on the road if you're disabled, if your car's older than 40 years, you drive a tractor, an electric vehicle, anything with emissions lower than 100g/km, an NHS vehicle, or a horse. Or, of course, you're on foot.