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molgrips
Why do these people exist, then?
Umm... who is being blamed for the current energy bill crisis?
https://assets.amuniversal.com/779318b09eb3012f2fe500163e41dd5b
British Gas lost money more years than it made ANY profit... meanwhile Centrica trading and E&P were making money and getting concessions based on their "other job" being blame consultants.
At one point a few years ago Centrica had 33,000 employees and their entire profit and most of the money used to prop up British Gas came from <<300 of them in total.
The poorest, with lower incomes, thermally leakier housing and cheaper less efficient appliances are always going to find it much harder to stick within the “free energy cap” or afford measures that help them to do so (like new Kettles or extra insulation), and so the most likely scenario is that those most lacking in financial means still end drifting into using un-capped premium energy consumption which becomes an exponential ramp up in costs.
Conversely the middle class consumers who can afford energy efficient appliances and to stuff more kingspan in their lofts will benefit from a consumption cap.
I'm not sure where the idea of in-efficent kettles even comes from? Even the less efficient electrical ones (that are more expensive than more efficient ) are still a very efficient way to boil water and cost under £10
You don't need to heat a whole house... however the present way energy is billed is designed to push up consumption and lower people's ability to control their bills.
The most expensive electricity is PAYG which gives the consumer the most direct control over their bills
The cheapest is by monthly DD where the customers control is all but removed... to the point most consumers feel helpless and see no change to their bills by reducing consumption.
The narrative is that "poor people" are poor because they are too stupid to budget whereas the reality is poor people are mostly poor because their ability to budget has been removed.
I’m not sure where the idea of in-efficent kettles even comes from?
It was a half joke, based on Boris's disjointed mutterings on the COL crisis the other day, apparently a new kettle will save you a whole tenner a year, He definitely 'gets it'...
The narrative is that “poor people” are poor because they are too stupid to budget whereas the reality is poor people are mostly poor because their ability to budget has been removed.
That's not even vaguely what I said, my point was that energy efficient measures cost Money in themselves, giving people a "free" energy allowance without the means to make efficient use of it is only really doing half a job, and the benefits would ultimately not accrue for those most in need...
I wondered where the kettle comments were coming from! Unless your existing kettle is styled on a computer heatsink I was confused how it would be more efficient!
Seeing as the cup markings on kettles are generally invisible once there is some condensation or scale in the kettle (ours has got movable red tabs inside but even those are not that easy to see) we'd all be better just using a mug to fill the kettle!
Tax the rich. Makes sense. And they have the capacity to invest and reduce bills which also saves the planet. Lovely!
Except you aren't taxing the rich, you're taxing circumstance too.
Let's look at Dave/Sue and Bob/Jane.
Both families have similar joint household income. Let's say £70k, as both adults are on a bit average income. £4500 a month give or take, before pension or other deductions.
Dave and his wife live in a modern 2 bed in the South West. Paid for as sadly the MIL passed away. No kids. Well insulated and relatively mild winters. The school and hospital they work in are well heated and they walk to work. Their energy bills are negligible. That beats clapping for Mrs Dave. Brilliant.
Bob and his wife and two kids live in a 3 bed end terrace in the North built in 1870, £1k a month mortgage. Impractical to insulate the walls (double brick, no cavity, rooms already small enough) and the cold winters bite hard. Bob drives to work in the factory and his wife is a child minder so heating on all day, leaking warmth out into the street. Energy company are not unrestricted, trying to recover costs from Dave, the loss leader, so charge 6x per unit over base. Bob gets a huge bill he can't afford, with no money spare to pay for diesel or kingspan. Or move. Poor Bob and Jane.
Of course that's fabricated to challenge the argument in the OP, which was the assignment. I don't know what the solution is and of course we should pay for usage and reduce consumption but uncapped pricing with no link to means scares me too.
Doh! Typo...
Energy company are now unrestricted...
I wondered where the kettle comments were coming from! Unless your existing kettle is styled on a computer heatsink I was confused how it would be more efficient!
Some posh kettles tend to have an false bottom isolated from the heating element so I can only imagine Boris is talking about his own designer kettle ??
Seems a grossly unfair proposal to me
Having seen some of the energy costs people have quoted on another thread, I’m going to assume that most of these folks don’t live in castles with the heating on 24/7. Rather they live in drafty old houses with families
My new build is energy efficient, has a new boiler, and despite having 4 bedrooms I live on my own. Under your proposal I’ll pay buttons, whilst the family of 4 down the road in the old house built in the 20s will be crippled
cookeaa
That’s not even vaguely what I said, my point was that energy efficient measures cost Money in themselves, giving people a “free” energy allowance without the means to make efficient use of it is only really doing half a job, and the benefits would ultimately not accrue for those most in need…
I'm not claiming it's YOUR narrative!
Perhaps I need to explain further ??
Firstly the over-riding issue is the existence of energy (billing) companies. They shouldn't exist at all but if they do (and short term that's the only option) then they should be allowed to be competitive not legislated to prevent them being competitive.
Legislation makes it impossible for energy companies to take what you use by DD (even if they wanted to)... and they have chosen (unless someone knows exceptions) to charge LESS by DD than paying for what you use quarterly.
To be fair to them that's the concession they get for participating in a crap low profit industry.
Anyhoo... they wil still be here this winter and ...
Most families energy usage is going to be significantly higher in winter regardless but the energy companies are legislated to take that money from your account when it's not being used
This has 2 detrimental effects ...
1) Moderately sensible people with a little left over would take that money to improve their energy efficiency in preparation for the winter but they can't as that money is being taken from them when they would be saving.
2) Reducing energy usage over summer is made to seem pointless in the short term anyway as the money is going to be taken from your account anyway thus dis-incentivising.
This hasn't "crept up" on us... and that adversely affects both 1 and 2 ... other than death and taxes most people on lower incomes can also be certain that
a) Their real world take home is going to decrease
b) Inflation is going to increase
c) Their energy bills will increase
and for many if not most their ability to control spending in general (outside of domestic energy use) is going to decrease in winter. To various degrees the ability to cycle or walk to work/schools/shops etc. is decreased and those lucky enough to have gardens their ability to eat from the garden is reduced, new winter clothes for kids ...not to mention demands from schools for money etc.
To sum that up life in general is just more expensive in winter...
This is just a "normal" year though... now looking at this year many families have just thrown up their hands and quite honestly see no way how they are going to make it through winter.. to quote or paraphrase Martin Lewis he's out of levers to pull ... and many families I know are now basically at the point of saying they are f*****d whatever... or as a mate said to me Sunday... she "feels like she's fallen overboard and the land is just so far away there is just no point trying to swim". Many families will just give in and fall into debt from which they are not going to recover...