I think this country is crying out for a competant, compelling, left of centre party that will offer a real choice. Less of the "don't worry the rich will pay" retoric bullshit spouted by the current Labour party and more of a "If we all pay more into the public sector then we will all get more out of it and this will be a nicer, happier place to live".
IMO, Labour went too left. The electorate voted for whoever vaguely resembled Blair. Labour have to out Blair, Cameron.
I think this country is crying out for a competant, compelling, left of centre party that will offer a real choice. Less of the "don't worry the rich will pay" retoric bullshit spouted by the current Labour party and more of a "If we all pay more into the public sector then we will all get more out of it and this will be a nicer, happier place to live".
IMO, Labour went too left. The electorate voted for whoever vaguely resembled Blair. Labour have to out Blair, Cameron.
If this circled can't be squared, there will need to be a realignment on the Left - Ernie will be over the moon.
I just don't like the thought that the majority of people don't give a shit about others.
There's no need to 'like the thought', as it's almost certainly not true.
Molgrips, totally agree with your earlier point. Result of this vote demonstrates the majority are ignorantly looking out for themselves and not caring about their fellow man...really sad...
Before its picked up, not majority literally, but enough to do the damage...
Sorry jfletch that is what happened 2 weeks ago when I wanted to make an appointment. First one available was in 3 weeks, no my case wasn't bad enough to go to A+E. No other alternatives.Hey I didn't know you were involved in the conversation I had with the receptionist oh that right you weren't there, idiot.
Sounds shitty.
But there is always another alternative. Your GP will have an on call doctor who will see you that day if you need it.
I'm not saying the system is perfect, it's not, there aren't enough GPs. But what we have is a hell of a lot better than the alternative and accessability is one of its strenghts. You will always find cases like yours in any system.
But what we have is a hell of a lot better than the alternative
That sort of depends what the alternative is, n'est-ce pas?
Pigface - Member
Sweden or Finland or even Findus aren't perfect but you can feel safe and secure there. Decent housing is affordable, you can see a doctor without waiting 3 weeks for an appointment. 2 things which you can't say about here.
Can't speak about Sweden but I can about Finland.
- Housing is affordable in places far from the main settlements. Should you move to Helsinki, Turku, Tampere or Espoo, it's expensive. It's also difficult to secure banking services from Finnish banks as an new immigrant.
- Getting a GP appointment can take a month. Seeing a specialist needs a GP referral. The doctors are poorly trained and prescribe paracetamol for nearly every malady... or so it seems!
Finland has been very good at marketing itself as a utopia.
jfletch you didn't say that you said what I said was claptrap.
I have a really sore shoulder due to a dislocation, it was very painful and I wanted to speak to the doc about possible referral. No point going to A+E there was nothing they can do and would be a waste of that resource. So what should I do?
I gritted my teeth took ibuprofen and saw him last week he did refer me so job done.
As a country we're centre left, as are all our mainstream parties.
What?
IMO, Labour went too left.
[i]What?[/i]
As a country we're centre left, as are all our mainstream parties.
Serious question - are you dyslexic? Because not knowing your left and right is a sign of that...
IMO, Labour went too left.
Are you smoking crack?
I have a really sore shoulder due to a dislocation, it was very painful and I wanted to speak to the doc about possible referral. No point going to A+E there was nothing they can do and would be a waste of that resource. So what should I do?
Be honest with yourself and be forceful with the receptionist.
Is it genuinely so sore that a visit to a pharmasist isn't enough till you get a scheduled appointment? No, go see a pharmasist. Yes, explain that to the receptionist and you will go on the on call list for that day, the doctor may refer you there and then or want to see you and give you an on call appointment.
Are you smoking crack?
No, that's what a lot in the Labour camp think as well.
Have you been following Swedish politics recently mol?
Be careful what you wish for.
The Scandi Utopian model that is bandied around is a far cry from the reality.
I like Scandinavia but their left leaning governments might do more harm than good to their tiny population. Finland may be a bit on the right because they have Russia at their doorstep while the rest of the Scandinavian countries are slowly creating social troubles for themselves.
What teamhurtmore says +1...
teamhurtmore - MemberHave you been following Swedish politics recently mol?
Be careful what you wish for.
I was talking to my CEO who lives in Sweden and he said the rise of what is practically Nazism is scary at the moment, some of the Danish members of the group however liked the curbing of immigration which is being proposed. It is crazy in lots of places around the world not just here.
Indeed, when a certain dodgy politician started spouting stuff about the Nordic model and it's wonder, you knew it was time for some proper scrutiny. 😉
jp-t853 - Member
I was talking to my CEO who lives in Sweden and he said the rise of what is practically Nazism is scary at the moment, some of the Danish members of the group however liked the curbing of immigration which is being proposed. It is crazy in lots of places around the world not just here.
The rise of the extreme right wing is due to the left leaning governments/parties hammering the population with certain views that are not natural. i.e. open door mass migration will cause tension whether you like it or not.
Well my year in Finland had none of the problems you say HansRey, flat was cheap as chips no sauna which the land lord kept apologising for.
Health care no problem, brilliant dentist as well.
The Scandi Utopian model that is bandied around is a far cry from the reality.
Possibly, but Scandinavia is a lot closer to Utopia than we are.
Sweden is suffering a racist backlash from a small group of nutters incensed by the relatively enormous numbers of refugees admitted recently.
The rise of the extreme right wing is due to the left leaning governments/parties [b]hammering the population with certain views that are not natural[/b]. i.e. open door mass migration will cause tension whether you like it or not.
Nobody is being "hammered", and I don't see what is "not natural" about helping people in need.
DrJ - MemberThe Scandi Utopian model that is bandied around is a far cry from the reality.Possibly, but Scandinavia is a lot closer to Utopia than we are.
Sweden is suffering a racist backlash from a small group of nutters incensed by the relatively enormous numbers of refugees admitted recently.
They are not nutters but a real reality check ... what's their population again? How many per family you say? They will be a minority in 3 generations. Fact!
We have 5 million in N. Borneo and we are nearing minority in 2 generations now and another generation we will definitely be minority.
DrJ - Member
Nobody is being "hammered", and I don't see what is "not natural" about helping people in need.
Well, do as they like as they Will become minority. Fact! Ya, go twist and turn your arguments as much as you like and in 3 generations ... I hope this thread will not be resurrected because ... "I told you soooo ...!"
[b]
Trying to help the entire world is not natural.[/b]
Well said @5thElefant. We have a Conservative government which supports the NHS and a budget of £140bn a year of Welfare (even if that's £12bn less than we currently spend). That's left of centre politics globally.
Its certainly an efficient way of transferring public funds into the pockets of private enterprise, more of which will now be happening, leaving less to be actually spent on the public.
Its certainly an efficient way of transferring public funds into the pockets of private enterprise
All 6% of the NHS budget.
Called my Dr's at 10:30 today, I have an appointment at 15:30 today. Bloody awful 🙄
Pigface - MemberSweden or Finland or even Findus aren't perfect but you can feel safe and secure there. Decent housing is affordable, you can see a doctor without waiting 3 weeks for an appointment. 2 things which you can't say about here.
I feel safe and secure where I live, after all the UK enjoys a murder rate roughly equal to Sweden (1.1 murders per 100k people in UK, 1.0 in Sweden) but less than half of Finland with 2.3.
Sexual Assaults are far more frequent in Sweden than the UK, Finland offers a slightly better chance of making it home without being groped, but we're still talking about 21 and 28 assaults per 100k people, hardly the last days of Rome.
You're more likely to be assaulted in Sweden than you are in England and Wales, which is remarkable given the state of our High Streets at the weekend. You're also more likely to be burgled in Sweden than you are in the UK, you're more like to have your Car stolen in Finland or Sweden - hardly a Scandinavian utopia.
As for a GP, I can usually see one the same day if I'm really ill, or in a few days if it's just something I want to chat about or sometime minor.
If I call up and say my Daughter is ill (she'll not 1 till June) they always say I can come down straight away and they'll see her - and whilst I know it cam be frustrating waiting in A&E for hours with a simple fracture, cut or ingrowing toenail - let me assure you, if you turn up in the back of an Ambo pissing blood and dropping bits of bone around the place you can be in the door and into theatre inside 30 mins, I know, I've done it, it was the most impressive bit of team work I've ever seen - given a bit of practice I'd bet money on a bunch of A&E nurses over a F1 team changing tyres any day.
Anyway, back on point, if the NHS goes, we go with it - but we don't know where, we love the UK.
Wow which bit of "aren't perfect" do you not understand P-Jay 😆
P-Jay - MemberAnyway, back on point, if the NHS goes, we go with it - but we don't know where, we love the UK.
NHS will Not disappear perhaps scale down but emergency will still be dealt with if common sense prevails.
As stated Sweden is not utopia the bacon is abysmal . However , the things that really matter to me as 33 year old father of one , Sweden is fantastic for. Jobs ,houses , nature , the value placed in children and family life, equality,medical care, free education. Plus the appalling old boys network that still runs British society doesn't exist here. I was trying to explain to someone the concept of people in the uk moving to get their children into a good school . Her reply was 'why are there bad schools?"
Top Banana I say.
I just don't like the thought that the majority of people don't give a shit about others.Of course it's not true, that's the frustrating part. Most 'ordinary' people are left leaning, but somehow they get duped to vote for the party that ends up benefiting the rich few.
You could say its shows that most people aren't daft and know (however much it frustrates them) that money has to be earned, bills have to be paid and that we only get out what we put in. Gordon Brown spending sprees are only fun while they last and the hangovers are long and painful. There are still too many people in this country that think the world owes them a living. They now have another five years to wake up.
Pigface - MemberWow which bit of "aren't perfect" do you not understand P-Jay
Just the bit afterwards where you described Finland and Sweden as doing better than the UK on Crime (assuming you want to feel safe and secure from crime and not exterrestrials or something) and Healthcare when they're not
Perhaps you should have written "Sweden and Finland aren't perfect, AND they're slightly more dangerous places to live, and the healthcare isn't as good, but I assume I could afford a nicer house there as I think housing is cheaper than the UK relative to incomes" 😉
But is it? Have you checked, or have you assumed? It's not all Meatballs and Flat Pack Furniture you know 😉
Well I have lived in both and enjoyed them very much.
I didn't mention "crime" that is your assumption. Why have you brought crime into it. I said secure which isn't crime unless you are going to tell me different.
What proof do you have that Sweden and Finland are more dangerous than the UK, provide the evidence for you assertions please.
Pigface - MemberSorry jfletch that is what happened 2 weeks ago when I wanted to make an appointment. First one available was in 3 weeks, no my case wasn't bad enough to go to A+E. No other alternatives.
Hey I didn't know you were involved in the conversation I had with the receptionist oh that right you weren't there, idiot.
Maybe if you weren't so rude you'd get seen quicker.
I got an appointment with my GP straight away the last time I needed one.
I was then seen promptly at the hospital, had another quick visit to the docs before receiving excellent treatment back at the hospital with the physiotherapist.
The standard of care provided by the (STW won't like this!) privately run NHS hospital was second to none. 🙂
Actually I did recently use some expensive private healthcare.
The only way it bettered the service provided by the NHS was free parking.
But then I am friendly, nice and polite. 😀
Er ok sbob what ever you say 🙄
Pigface - MemberWell I have lived in both and enjoyed them very much.
I didn't mention "crime" that is your assumption. Why have you brought crime into it. I said secure which isn't crime unless you are going to tell me different.
What proof do you have that Sweden and Finland are more dangerous than the UK, provide the evidence for you assertions please.
Actually you said "safe and secure", but yes I assumed crime, what other fears do you have?
Anyway, my source was www.civitas.org.uk/
Specifically
'fill yer boots' as they say.
I have nothing against Sweden or Finland, they're lovely places and the few people from that area I've met have been lovely, but we shouldn't give into this self-hate mantra that everything in Britain is crap, because it's not - I've lived all over the place, and no single place is better than the UK in every respect - in the developed World Britain is a great place to live, we have ample opportunity for happiness, if you take the planet as a whole, well, even Birmingham would seem like paradise to most of the world.
If you truly want to move abroad, I wish you all the luck in the world - but doing so because you think the UK is a terrible place is wrong.
I have nothing against Sweden or Finland, they're lovely places and the few people from that area I've met have been lovely, but we shouldn't give into this self-hate mantra that everything in Britain is crap, because it's not - I've lived all over the place, and no single place is better than the UK in every respect - in the developed World Britain is a great place to live, we have ample opportunity for happiness, if you take the planet as a whole, well, even Birmingham would seem like paradise to most of the world.If you truly want to move abroad, I wish you all the luck in the world - but doing so because you think the UK is a terrible place is wrong.
Well said.
Pigface - MemberEr ok sbob what ever you say
Ok, I'll have your clothes, money and bicycle.
Thanks! 😀
Ok so where have I said the UK is terrible place or where have I said I think it is a terrible place. Come on play fair.
Really interesting figures thanks for that, I see you are a little choosy which figures you used. I know that in Sweden any form of sexual assault gets called a rape, hence the Assange debacle.
If those figures are to be believed then everyone in NZ has had their care stolen 😆 didnt happen to me when I lived there but no doubt you will tell me I am wrong 😀 and that my van was stolen all the time.
sbob I haven't got any money but which bike are you interested in?
Actually you said "safe and secure", but yes I assumed crime, what other fears do you have?Anyway, my source was http://www.civitas.org.uk/
Specifically
'fill yer boots' as they say.
Sometimes you have to apply a "common sense" test! Sweden has a marginally lower homicide rate than England and Wales, but double the rate of rapes. When a person is dead, it's hard to dispute the figures, but I'm willing to bet that the rape figures are a result of different reporting rates.
The rate of assault looks high in Sweden, and seems to be about 5 times the rate in Denmark. Of course those are two separate countries, but I'd be surprised if Swedes really are 5x more violent than Danes - I'm wondering if there is an effect of "immigrant on immigrant" crime distorting the figures?
Whatever - I always feel much safer in Scandi-land than I do here, on the basis of incidents like when I was inadvertently taking photos of a drug dealer and he smiled and politely asked me to stop. Don't imagine that would happen in Tower Hamlets.
Pigface - MemberOk so where have I said the UK is terrible place or where have I said I think it is a terrible place. Come on play fair.
Really interesting figures thanks for that, I see you are a little choosy which figures you used. I know that in Sweden any form of sexual assault gets called a rape, hence the Assange debacle.
If those figures are to be believed then everyone in NZ has had their care stolen didnt happen to me when I lived there but no doubt you will tell me I am wrong and that my van was stolen all the time.
sbob I haven't got any money but which bike are you interested in?
Picking and choosing the aspects you wish to use in a discussion is the advantage of basing your stance on research and facts and not gut feel 😉
You may have not used the words "terrible" I was referring not to you specifically but the sort of "why can't we do anything anymore in this bloody country" type attitude you hear so much these days - we're only called Great Britain because our land mass is greater than Britany, but it's still a great place to live.
Anyway - you answered a thread asked where you would suddenly like to live, I know the OP was talking about post-election, but perhaps you weren't - I feel you don't care for people making assumptions about you, anyway - and I note you've spent time there - your specific reasons were that we can't see a doctor when we need to for 3 weeks, you feel unsafe and insecure here and you feel that housing is too expensive - sound pretty terrible to me - but you can decide what you'd call it yourself.
Oh and PS, I'm sure, that if you say your Van was never stolen, it wasn't - but I can tell that statistically it was far more likely to have been stolen than it was in the UK - so based on the data of a single person you believe car crime in lower in NZ, where as I, based data taken from the crime stats of the entire country think otherwise- which do you think is more accurate?
I was referring not to you specifically
but you quoted my post so forgive me for assuming, you can see why I did it.
Yes I was talking about post election, I don't want to get political but last nights result was my worst nightmare. That is a personal view and its not the view of everybody. Just pointing that out before you decide to do something with that bit of information.
No I didn't say "we" I was telling of my own personal experience of trying to book an appointment with a doctor. It seems I need to emphasize that it was my personal experience. I will also say that the NHS saved my life after a very bad car crash when I was 17 spent 3 1/2 months in hospital and a further 9 months learning to walk again. I think we are truly blessed to have the NHS, is it perfect no, but I am very glad it is there.
You know what they say about stats 😆
I think this country is crying out for a competant, compelling, left of centre party that will offer a real choice. Less of the "don't worry the rich will pay" retoric bullshit spouted by the current Labour party and more of a "If we all pay more into the public sector then we will all get more out of it and this will be a nicer, happier place to live".
Exactly if you want better public services everyone has to pay more. The sums do not add up to just pile it on the wealthy. In addition its just another form of selfishness of "let them pay as long as we are aright" rather than a collective we all give a little more makes a big difference. Your little may be more or less than my little but we are all doing so.
we shouldn't give into this self-hate mantra that everything in Britain is crap
Of course, and I don't. I've posted on here many times about the positives of the UK, and whilst I've only spent a couple of months working in Sweden I lived in Finland for over a year.
I started the thread in the post-election morning depression, so it relates to that: I was simply expressing my disappointment that once again the country seems to have voted (perhaps un-knowingly) against socially minded political ideas.
I think this country is crying out for a competant, compelling, left of centre party that will offer a real choice. Less of the "don't worry the rich will pay" retoric bullshit spouted by the current Labour party and more of a "If we all pay more into the public sector then we will all get more out of it and this will be a nicer, happier place to live".
Absolutely. In other words, focus on copmetence and ideals rather than confusion with a veneer of hopefully populist soundbite nonsense.
focus on copmetence
🙂
Where do you lot live to think the UK has positives? Safe and secure?!!! This country is a violent s@@thole, or it least that's how it seems to me. You cannot leave anything without it being nicked, and just getting to or from work runs a daily risk of being sworn at or pushed and jostled or worse. As noted elsewhere, the whole place just seems to be about being selfish and "me me me". After five years we know no one apart from immediate neighbours and no one speaks. I want to live where you do!
Rant over.
