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yes I am because that is the truth
Trail hunts are a sham intended to cover up the killing of foxes. Everyone knows this. So anyone taking part in one of these sham hunts is knowingly part of a criminal conspiracy
There are no legal trail hunts. Drag hunting is different Every trail hunt sets out to break the law. Every member is a part of the criminal conspiracy
TJ, are you suggesting that every hunt, every huntsperson, takes part in illegal activity because it sounds an awful lot like you are
It's one of TJs highest of horses - I'm not disagreeing that most hunts have broken the law, and should be punished properly, and all the related intimidation and violence as well, but it's not every hunt, or every rider.
Its every rider in the hunts that break the law and what hunts do not break the law?
If you are part of the criminal enterprise you are a criminal
name me a TRAIL hunt that you believe does not break the law and I'll find criminality in that hunt
Thoroughly disusting and showing now respect what so ever for the views of others
When the ‘views of others’ involve thinking it’s ok to sadistically torment an animal for fun then they don’t deserve respect, only contempt
This appaling thread is no better than anyone moaning about poofs. Word used to get my point across.
Oh dear..
you forgot " and break the law deliberately" tp biker
I think it's actually spelt 'pouffe's'. This thread has taken a very strange turn indeed.
Ever heard of Mark Hankinson? Director of the Masters of the Foxhounds, the governing body for over 170 packs across the UK? This the chap who on camera said:
“We need to have clear, visible, plausible trail laying being done throughout the day … It’s a lot easier to create a smokescreen if you’ve got more than one trail layer operating, and that is what it’s all about, trying to portray to the people watching that you’re going about your legitimate business.”
His job is to represent the hunting community and was found guilty of encouraging others to break to law and use trail hunting as a ‘smokescreen’ for hunting love animals. I’d say when one of the blokes at the top encourages others to break the law than that’s a pretty damning indictment of the whole hunting community. And don’t come back with the argument that it’s just a random comment from a single person; it was done in a series of arranged webinars to 100+ MFHA members.
I have seen ‘trail’ hunts pursue live animals around where I live and yes, I have reported to the police & local sab groups. Why else do hunts need to go out with terrier men on quads if not to dig out foxes from bolt holes?
One final thing, look up where the term ‘berk’ comes from. It’s pretty fitting.
but it’s not every hunt, or every rider.
if its a trail hunt then as shown by the recent trial/zoom conference then I am not sure how you can argue this.
If you want to ride horses over the countryside without engaging in activities which skirt the hunting with dogs law then there is drag hunting. Even the hunt sabs agree that lot are okay.
If you chose to ride with a trail hunt which uses "prey scent" or "hunting with birds of prey" then expect to be treated with a lot of suspicion in the same way someone hanging around a bike storage area with a pair of boltcroppers and some scaffolding poles should be.
So come on hunt defenders -name me a hunt that is a "trail hunt" that used to be a kill hunt and does not now break the law
you guys are so certain not every hunter and hunter are lawbreakers so you must have this information to hand
time to put up or shut up
time to put up or shut up
This should be a laugh but I suspect some people will go for the "need to be proven guilty in a court of law" so to try and bypass that defence.
If you are so certain these hunts are sticking to the spirit of the law rather than going for loopholes or just relying on the police not being interested then why dont they meet the standards needed to become a draghunt? Since as a rough rule if the people most opposed to something, in this case hunt sabs, cant find a problem then I have to conclude they are legit beyond any reasonable doubt.
Is it on them to prove a negative?
NOpe = what I am saying is they should name a hunt they believe to be clean and i bet i find criminality in that hunt. I am confident there is not a trail hunt that does n. My bet is they will not be able to
If they are so convinced i am wrong then let them name the clean hunts
Is it on them to prove a negative?
They use "prey scent" and often have the hunt followers with terriers so yeah it is down to them to explain why those are needed.
You can prove the negative as the drag hunts demonstrate. Even the people most opposed to fox hunting give them a pass.
You cannot prove a negative and i am not asking them to do so. I merely ask them for the name of the non criminal hunt - that mythological beast.
I’m not sure how I can take someone seriously who’s talking about use of hate speech whilst at the same time feels the need to use a homophobic slur to illustrate their point…
I’m not sure how it is possible to compare people who enjoy riding bicycles for pleasure, with people who seem to enjoy chasing another being for pleasure and take enjoyment in its dismemberment by dogs…
Grew up next door to a pub where the local hunt used to gather.
What's wrong with a bunch of braying drunks blundering around aggressively damaging hedges/fences/horses, ripping foxes to pieces with dogs then daubing fox blood onto their children's faces?
If you don't get it you're just not a 'proper country person' and it's perfectly legitimate to threaten/bully you. Apparently.
I’ll mention that to my petite and dainty 60 year old cousin who used to ride with a hunt.
I think it's fair to say that even as a petite and dainty 60 year old you would have had to be remarkably intellectually subnormal to be a regular attendee at a trail hunt and oblivious of what was going on. The alternative is complicit and agree with the law breaking by your continued participation. Which do you think she is, a dribbler or a knowing law breaker?
We have a boxing Day hunt in our village. A big spectacle and every one knows it's an absolute sham. We are just outside the village and can see and hear the dogs moving across land where it would be impossible to lay a scent trail. They come up through our garden and all our neighbours have to lock in our cats and dogs on boxing Day due to this. We've complained to the hunt and been told they have no control of the dogs and what scent they pickup. So move if you don't like what goes on in the countryside.
For those that take part they see it as a cultural act and have the view of, well we've always done it. They despise newcomers or townies moving in and telling them what they are doing is wrong.
I can understand the need to control foxes in some areas but turning it in to a game and circus for fun is disgusting.
Can you borrow a sheep and a shotgun for the day?
I can understand the need to control foxes in some areas
Its really not about fox control at all. Many hunts provide dens and feed for foxes to ensure a supply of prey.
We used to get the hunt turn up in our garden looking for their dogs.
The dogs are nasty things. Unfortunately for them we had a bantam cock and a feral cat both more than capable and extremely willing to attack first and not bother with any questions. Watching 1.5kg or extremely angry tiny chicken come at a big dug going cross eyed trying to track the spurs slashing it's nose to shreds was hilarious.
I can understand the need to control foxes in some areas but turning it in to a game and circus for fun is disgusting.
We've lost chickens, geese and lambs to fixes on many occasions. They are still very welcome in our garden, beautiful wild animals. We just did everything we could to try and prevent them getting the livestock. Two Shetland ponies were pretty good shepherds for anti fox action.
why dont they meet the standards needed to become a draghunt? Since as a rough rule if the people most opposed to something, in this case hunt sabs, cant find a problem then I have to conclude they are legit beyond any reasonable doubt.
Because they have the delusional belief that the hunting act will be overturned at some stage. They believe that they are maintaining the hounds familiarity with fox scent until that happens. Drag hunting hounds don't follow fox scent and they believe this will erode their hunting ability and over time, the bloodlines of the established hunting packs. They also believe that by simulating the structure of an actual hunt as closely as possible they are preventing traditions and knowledge being lost and keeping hunt employees in work.
l'm not arguing their case or agreeing with any of that, but I live in the middle of hunting country with a hunt kennels a mile from my house. There is strong (though not universal) support for the hunt amongst locals, even if they are not directly involved. The above is the reason I was given when asking "why not drag hunting"?
The dogs are nasty things
big dug going cross eyed trying to track the spurs slashing it’s nose to shreds was hilarious.
The dogs have a shit life. Though fed and housed they are never shown affection. They are beaten if they don't behave how the huntsman wants and shot out of hand when lame or no longer useful. It's not their fault.
I’ve mentioned it before on previous fox hunting threads , but when you see a huntmaster going ballistic as he is refused access to the rear of a commercial property on a business park to gain access to the fox that is taking refuge behind the palisade fence, you see exactly what they are all about.
They come up through our garden and all our neighbours have to lock in our cats and dogs on boxing Day due to this.
They ride through your garden? I wouldn’t be standing for that shit at all.
Whilst I’ve no love of hunting, country roads are full of all sorts of things which run out into the road or just happen to block out and so on from pheasant and deer or hare’s to tractors and horses and cyclists.
I tend to find that tractors, horses and cyclists tend not to suddenly appear over walls travelling perpendicular to the direction of travel. Hares and pheasants aren't worth risking yourself over so just get a tap of the brake, deer are just pure luck regardless of speed.
Surely the mods should be banning people here for their hate posts.
Good idea, I have a decent idea of who should go first.
Rev’s description there ^^ reads like something from a Cold War Steve montage. Bizarre.
They ride through your garden? I wouldn’t be standing for that shit at all.
Not always that easy. We live in a very rural spot and there is a covenant on our deeds that a local landowner retains the sporting rights to our land (garden and small paddock) even though we own it. It is common in the countryside for sporting rights to be sold or retained separately to property ownership.
In theory the hunt could come charging through our garden and there's not a lot we could do about it. Though if they did, I'd be filming and recording any damage or illegal hunting. It hasn't happened yet, but they've come close, in adjacent fields and along the bridleway our house is accessed from. We try to keep our dog, cats and chickens inside when the hunt are about.
I wouldn’t have purchased a house with that as part of the sale. If they retain any sort of rights then you don’t really own it. Utter madness
The dogs have a shit life. Though fed and housed they are never shown affection. They are beaten if they don’t behave how the huntsman wants and shot out of hand when lame or no longer useful. It’s not their fault.
Is a good point and one I did intend to caveat.
I do have a picture somewhere of a hound that decided hanging round being fed bits of bacon by my dad was a far better life for it than the above. It came into the kitchen and just plonked itself down.
I am still awaiting the names of these trail hunts that do not break the law. come on chaps - you were so confident that its not all hunts so please name one that is not a part of the criminal conspiracy
I wouldn’t have purchased a house with that as part of the sale. If they retain any sort of rights then you don’t really own it. Utter madness
We've been here 6 years and it's never happened, nor whilst in the the hands of the previous owner. Ownership of the surrounding farms has changed several times since this was enacted too, so the validity and origin of it is a little blurred. I strongly suspect that it's an historical anachronism and they may not even be aware of it. It's a tiny spot on a huge area of land hunted over. Even if they do know they could, they know it's not a good look, especially when they are likely to be filmed and become youtube famous. It would also be very hard to maintain a defence of legal trail hunting if no trail had been laid and they chased a fox across my raised beds!
It's our dream retirement cottage in a stunning location and we are happier here than we've ever been. Had we not bought it because of some vague and unlikely possibility of 'legal trespass', then we'd have have made a huge mistake. I'm grateful every day that we didn't. YMMV.
The dogs have a shit life. Though fed and housed they are never shown affection. They are beaten if they don’t behave how the huntsman wants and shot out of hand when lame or no longer useful. It’s not their fault.
Exactly. Absolutely vile, yet apparently some people think that calling them out for the scum they are is akin to homophobia🤔
I am still awaiting the names of these trail hunts that do not break the law.
OK, I'll go. Not because I like hunting, I really don't for all the reasons stated and I think they should have just banned it properly rather than given them the trail hunting loophole, but I'm intrigued to know what evidence you'll be able to find that they are breaking the law.
Cheshire Forest Hunt.
Replace “hunt” with cyclists and see how different a response your post gets.
I think that was his point. Had that been a similar sized/organised group of cyclists in an event there would have had to be risk assessment/sign/marshals /whatever
I am still awaiting the names of these trail hunts that do not break the law.
Tynedale, College, Percy and Morpeth.
I wish they were banned altogether too though.
Tyndale - regularly tresspass onto farmland they are not allowed on
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-55534567
William Bolton, Paul Hawkes and David Lynne, supporters of the Tynedale Foxhounds, all bound over to keep the peace for 2 years in the sum of £200, after a vicious and unprovoked attack on a Tyneside sab. Bolton also admitted a further charge of criminal damage for which he was fined £50 with £24.41 compensation.
Killed a pet dog
Percy Hunt.
guilty of interfering with a badger sett
Members of the hunt deliberate and dangerous riding in the town centre
college
Three Northumberland huntsmen were found guilty of illegally hunting a live fox back in October.
Joint Master Timothy Wyndham Basil Smalley, Huntsman Ian McKie and Kennel Huntsman Andrew Proe, of College Valley and North Northumberland Hunt, were all convicted of hunting a wild mammal with dogs.
I cannot find anything on Morpeth right now but I am certain they are criminals as well --herd them mentioned. I will keep checking
But the other three - all part of the criminal conspiracy no doubt at all and all been found out breaking the law.
Morpeth Hunt
On 4/2/98 a fox hunt was cleared over allegations that it damaged a protected badger sett during an incident in which a pack of hounds swarmed through a country park. Police have decided to take no action against the Morpeth Hunt following an investigation into the incident. Police launched an investigation into allegations that a badger sett was damaged during the incident in which the huntsmen had to remove the hounds from the country park, where hunting is banned. Northumberland County Council launched its own probe after claims the hounds chased foxes through the park three times in two hours. Hunting is not permitted in the park but there is an agreement that huntsmen can go in and remove hounds if they run into the area while chasing foxes. The agreement states that the hunt should retrieve their hounds as quickly as possible without disturbance to visitors or wildlife.
Obvious law and rule breaking, obviously still hunting foxes
Next!
Next!
Jeremy Hunt.
Jeremy Hunt
A weapons grade Berkley Hunt and no mistake.
I put at the bottom of page 2 TJ, Cheshire Forest Hunt, but your going fairly well so far. 👍
cheshire forest hunt
A right bunch of bastards. Obviously still killing foxes, no concern for others, several convictions for attacking sabs
Edit - on film breaking the law - no prosecution. They have a very friendly relationship with the local police as do the northumberland lot
They seem nice.
Their entries on here seem to reinforce that.
https://www.wildlifeguardian.co.uk/hunting/hunt-convictions/
Presumably you put them up as a bastion of fair play as a joke?
Regarding the hounds. Surely they're working dogs. Just because they don't get belly rubs and get to snuggle up in a human's bed eating crisps every night doesn't necessarily mean they have a 'shit life'. No doubt some hunts treat their hounds badly, just like a lot of domestic dog owners. But they live in a social pack, get adequate feed and exercise. It can't be that bad. If you're a dog.
I'm stuck with fox hunting. On the one hand, except for the murdery bit, it all looks jolly good fun. I used to enjoy the village life thing of the boxing-day meet etc. And it's a shame to get rid of these old traditions and customs, I especially hate banning/cancelling/making things illegal that we don't like, but it's just the fox-killing bit that I can't get over. So, nope. It's a shame they can't properly adapt, but then as another poster pointed out, it's not totally unrealistic that the ban could get overturned. As far as I'm aware, a few leading torys have previously mumbled something about having a new vote on it. And even Tony Blair himself has said he regrets the act.
There's also a weird inverse snobbery about it. It's seen as a 'toffs' thing so automatically bad for some reason. Kind of the same mentality that gets expensive cars intentionally keyed etc. We could reverse this and say that football is bad as it's seen as a working class only thing and it blocks all the roads on match day and attracts hooligans etc. Both of these are just nonsense stereotypes for the most part, albeit with some historical accuracy.
Maybe let them crack on, but let the foxes carry arms, or legalise the actions of the saboteurs to even things out a bit. 😉