Forum menu
I am not too fussed about hunting either way, but the whole cruelty of dogs tearing apart a fox bit baffles me.
Animals kill each other and a dog killing a rabbit/rat/fox etc is what they do. (They do it very well btw.)
Ever see a Jack Russell kill a rat?
I am just baffled that people are not up in arms about the killing of ugly animals.
Can there be a ban on foxes killing sheep,cats, chickens etc.
But considering we kill more foxes with our cars should there be a ban on cars in the countryside?
But can everyone drop the ranting against posh people, its really pathetic, being classist is just a load of w@nk.
"everyone"
?
i'm fairly sure it was just me.
how about i re-write my original post, replacing my word 'toff' with your approved word 'posh'?
MoreCashThanDash - MemberI've known 3-4 people who were members of hunts. None were toffs. They enjoyed that kind of riding. And they always claimed that few foxes were caught and killed, which admittedly defeats the pest control justification, I know.
The "we don't catch many foxes" argument always makes me think "go trail hunting then". I mean actual trail hunting, not "oops we [i]accidentally[/i] found a fox"
I am just baffled that people are not up in arms about the killing of ugly animals.
Can there be a ban on foxes killing sheep,cats, chickens etc.
I think regular folk find it hard to understand that anyone would derive pleasure from chasing an exhuasted animal for hours and then have their dogs rip it to pieces
[url= http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/its-awful-barbaric-no-way-9642344 ]worth a read[/url]
[i]the "we don't catch many foxes" argument always makes me think "go trail hunting then". I mean actual trail hunting, not "oops we accidentally found a fox"[/i]
indeed, or just shockingly...go for a hack? If you want to dress up, knock yourselves out, no-one is stopping you. Just, perhaps try not to kill anything by not taking dogs with you that are trained to chase and kill things.
I dont like the them v us nonsense Adam
I find it pointless.
The anti toff nonsense is lame.
Stick to reasoned arguments.
When I have been trying to get access for cycling, or arguing against shooting, with landowners, etc, I try keep my reasonable head on they might have money, but they are just the same as us. having a shit attitude isnt an exclusive trait of toffs.
I think people forget that there is a reaons the fox is being killed.
same way we shoot stags, kill rats, etc etc.
Its population control becuase we have a landscape that is almost exclusively for farming and we are a tiny island with little in the way of open land far enough away from livestock.
Can there be a ban on foxes killing sheep,cats, chickens etc.
In Bristol we have a ban on foxes killing all of the above. We have written serval letters to them reminding them of this and they keep doing it. The next step will be issuing them with an ASBO and hope that that will work.
I think people forget that there is a reaons the fox is being killed.
same way we shoot stags, kill rats, etc etc.
people dont object to foxes being killed, its the method employed, which seems ineficient and needlessly cruel
maybe we should have the serfs version. foxes are trap then we turn up with our pitbull staffie crosses and the foxes are thrown into a pit with them as we all gather round and cheer.
kimbers - Memberpeople dont object to foxes being killed, its the method employed, which seems ineficient and needlessly cruel
but also fun* and profitable.
(*subjective, but c'mon, surely [u]we[/u] can relate to the enjoyment people must get from chasing around the countryside on horseback?)
got a rat problem? - that'll cost you.
got a fox problem? - people will pay (thousands) to come and chase it for you.
The people i'm calling names really don't care what i think about them, i'm just townie scum to them.
which seems inefficient and needlessly cruel
As compared to which of the alternatives?
Snaring - efficient, cruel
Shooting - humane if you hit, potentially cruel if you wound, variable efficiency (depends on terrain and vegetation)
Terriers - efficient, cruel
Gassing - illegal, efficient, humane
poison - illegal, efficient, cruel, non selective
Its population control becuase we have a landscape that is almost exclusively for farming and we are a tiny island with little in the way of open land far enough away from livestock.
Rubbish. There have been many instances of hunters encouraging foxes in the area so they have something to hunt, or even getting them breeding.
AdamW - Member
@sancho
"Its population control becuase we have a landscape that is almost exclusively for farming and we are a tiny island with little in the way of open land far enough away from livestock.
Rubbish. There have been many instances of hunters encouraging foxes in the area so they have something to hunt, or even getting them breeding."
Both these things are true. it depends where you are.
I was under the impression that the request to increase the number of hounds had come from a welsh farming group. It would seem that only two hounds to flush to guns it not enough to kill efficiently. Which I can understand in upland forested area in sheep country. This has nothing to do with mounted red jacket types and everything to do with protecting lambs (for the welsh farmers). Apparently they mostly operate on foot (Fell Pack) like John Peel.
ninfan, trapping?
Adam, you're not scum to "them", youre a rocket scientist if I remember lol
No, Sancho, chemist, brought up in the countryside. One who has yet to hear a single coherent argument why people should wear silly clothes and rip another creature to bits (if they find one) for entertainment.
EDIT: mt if you really think that's true then there's quite a few bridges I have handy which you may be interested in. One previous owner 🙂
AdamW, there are (at least) 2 Adams on this thread...
(This isn't the first time that our similar names have caused confusion 🙂 )
There's a well written article from The League Against Cruel Sports exposing the myth that controlling foxes by any method is a useful way to protect livestock
There's a well written article from The League Against Cruel Sports exposing the myth that controlling foxes by any method is a useful way to protect livestock
Well if that's accurate and fox numbers declined after the ban we should bring back hunting to help the cute lil fellas populations! After all, they have no real affect on farm animals and they're so cute 😀
Looks like the amendment will fail anyway as the SNP will vote against it along with Labour and not all Tories are in favour.
Killing foxes so shoots can rear pheasants that get driven towards bellends to shoot and then not eat ? I don't get it and don't care about bringing money to rural areas as its all barbaric .
tin foil hat mode on
SNP playing perfectly into the tories hands on the English Votes for English Laws debate...
/tin foil hat
that get driven towards bellends to shoot and then not eat ?
I know quite a few folk who shoot, only a few are bellends and all the pheasants get taken away and eaten. I'm not sure it's that barbaric about killing birds which then get eaten?
tin foil hat mode onSNP playing perfectly into the tories hands on the English Votes for English Laws debate...
/tin foil hat
I did wonder if it was a wise move... Labour have already asked them to help defeat the bill and SNP statement says it a perfect example of a law that does affect Scotland so they should be allowed to vote on it.
and SNP statement says it a perfect example of a law that does affect Scotland so they should be allowed to vote
probably plenty of people looking at what will be in the SNP manifesto for 2016
SNP playing perfectly into the tories hands on the English Votes for English Laws debate...
EVEL will come, or not, with or without the SNP - the SNP can't and shouldn't spend their whole time trying to placate the pro-EVEL mob. And, more to the point, We were told that we are Better Together. We were told that we should play a full part in the UK democracy. So of course the SNP should vote the way they believe is right.
The trap is for Labour - they're already abstaining on the welfare bill, they despise the SNP, will they abstain on the foxhunting bill too?
ninfan - MemberSNP playing perfectly into the tories hands on the English Votes for English Laws debate...
Yup. Idiots - unless there is an under the table deal with Labour etc to prevent EVEL.
I do find it interesting how the shooters feel its not cruel barbaric etc to shoot birds.
but it is to shoot a fox, badger etc.
just a shame so much countryside is ruined for this sport
just a shame so much countryside is ruined for this sport
Out of interest, what do you define as 'ruining' the countryside?
Most of us are happy for animals to be killed for our own pleasure and enjoyment.
Demonising those who enjoy it is pure hypocricy, unless you're one hell of a hardcore vegan.
I consider the managed moorland as ruined as it is not natural.
i would rather it was allowed to go back to a wild natural state, but there are so many with vested interests in keeping it as a baron wasteland devoid of wildlife that we are left with a dump, the most boring countryside in Europe.
Most of us are happy for animals to be killed for our own pleasure and enjoyment.
Demonising those who enjoy it is pure hypocricy, unless you're one hell of a hardcore vegan.
Where to begin...
I'm all ears start where you like.
Who's this "we", kemosabe?
I don't think we really need any more proof that the ruling classes are psychopaths, what they're doing to the country is evidence enough, but the fact that they enjoy watching defenseless animals being ripped apart just makes it even more blatant.
I have no problem with a managed countryside where vermin are controlled by skilled experts.
I have no problem with hunting for the pot even with dogs.
Killing animals for fun though is a different thing. The mindset required for that should disqualify anyone from holding a govt post.
As I ride through some remote parts of the highlands I keep seeing shooting butts where there is a fence not too far away so the deer can be constricted in the area close to the shooters, and also nearby feeding stalls so the deer can get accustomed to the area and humans.
In these areas I have got very close to the deer and when they move off it is at a walk. These are tame fat animals. That is a huge contrast to the way it used to be. Then if you got within a few hundred yards of a deer, it would be off like a bullet.
It takes a sick, sick psychopath to think that is sport.
And as for watching dogs tear apart a fox, that's down there with bear baiting etc.
A fence not too far away so the deer can be constricted in the area close to the shooters, and also nearby feeding stalls so the deer can get accustomed to the area and humans.In these areas I have got very close to the deer and when they move off it is at a walk. These are tame fat animals. That is a huge contrast to the way it used to be.
I know what you mean, just the other day I rode past a load of sheep that had been delibaretley fattened up to the point they could barely walk, and penned in behind a wire fence so that some sick bastard could load them into a wagon and shoot them in the head from point blank range - all so some other perverted retard could enjoy sucking the flesh from their bones
It's a sick, sick world we live in!
so that some sick bastard could load them into a wagon and shoot them in the head from point blank range
That sounds like fun. Is it an Olympic sport ?
ninfan - Member
...I know what you mean, just the other day I rode past a load of sheep that had been delibaretley fattened up to the point they could barely walk, and penned in behind a wire fence so that some sick bastard could load them into a wagon and shoot them in the head from point blank range - all so some other perverted retard could enjoy sucking the flesh from their bones...
A reasonable point about how our meat arrives at the table.
But I doubt you'll find many people involved in that process doing it for fun, or paying to participate. And if they did, what would you think of them... ?
Would the level of enjoyment involved make any difference to the animal?
Do you think that abattoir workers should cry while they are doing it, or go home conflicted and upset about their choices in life? Would that make slitting an animals throat without stunning any less painful?
I personally can't see how the moral justification of a deer being shot by a professional or recreational stalker makes any difference, presuming they are equally proficient (and there is a recognised training and certification regime in the form of DSC1 and 2)
Expand that to pheasants, and which do you think is more cruel? Intensive chicken (lives in a shed for 38-40 days then gets a 100% chance of slaughter in a factory) or pheasants (gets released into the woods at 45 days(ish) and then spends 3-6 months living free before a 50% chance of getting shot)
Nobody in the modern, western world really [b]needs[/b] to eat meat, do they?
ninfan - Member
Would the level of enjoyment involved make any difference to the animal?...
None at all.
But it is still a sick human who kills and maims to get their fun.
(You know, fun - like the enjoyment you get from riding your bike, a good night out, or similar)
(You know, fun - like the enjoyment you get from riding your bike, a good night out, or similar)
Or eating a nice juicy steak?
oh, sorry, it's OK to enjoy the [b]product[/b] of an animal being killed (an animal that's been reared and fattened just for it to be killed) just not to enjoy the actual killing?
It's like saying that it's OK to enjoy watching child porn, as long as you're not the one doing the abuse...
ninfan - Memberoh, sorry, it's OK to enjoy the product of an animal being killed (an animal that's been reared and fattened just for it to be killed) just not to enjoy the actual killing?
i think you've got it.
It's like saying that it's OK to enjoy watching child porn, as long as you're not the one doing the abuse...
it's gone again.
i'm sure / i'd like to think that fox-hunters don't really enjoy the killing, it's the charging about on horseback they enjoy (i can see why). The hunting/killing thing just gives their charging about [i]purpose[/i].
It's like saying that it's OK to enjoy watching child porn, as long as you're not the one doing the abuse...
Sweet mercy. Are you for real?
i'm sure / i'd like to think that fox-hunters don't really enjoy the killing
Why not? Why shouldn't they?
What exactly is the moral difference between enjoying the killing and enjoying the product of the killing?
Nobody is suggesting they are going to be jerking off over it, but to enjoy and take pride in a job well done? Why the hell not?