I don't buy this whole "I went to university then trained and trained for years and years and now someone driving a van earns more than me, waaah" stuff. You should have done something else.
i have a degree, masters, PhD and apparently the average tanker driver gets paid a little more than me. Good luck to em, hope they get a payrise.
sc-xc - MemberHave you got a list there of what different jobs should earn?
No, but there are many jobs that should not earn that much put it this way unless it is their own private business.
Can I have a rough idea for the following please?
- Nothing to concern as they can sell as much or as expensive as they like and they can strike whenever they like by not baking etc ...Baker
- depends but definitely max of £40k for the highly experience and not simply employ too many.Park Warden
- not more than £150k I hope ...Astronaut
- as long as I am not paying and they are not affecting me the public can worship them by pouring money on them.
Professional breakdancer
- Nothing to concern as they can sell as much or as expensive as they like and they can strike whenever they like by not baking etc ...
You're assuming that all bakers are sole traders there. Surely the vast majority of bakers are employees.
Baker- Nothing to concern as they can sell as much or as expensive as they like and they can strike whenever they like by not baking etc ...
You do realise that most people buy bread in supermarkets, and that most bakers are employed in large bakeries.
That really does basically highlight your ignorance, you don't seem to understand life outside your little bubble, but still manage to seethe with envy that someone should dare to earn a decent wage despite complete ignorance of how they earn that wage.
not only do these guys earn more than many university graduates for simply cruising around in a truck, they aren't burdened by 15k of debt for their education..... 😀
for some it must be quite a bitter pill to swallow.
i earn more than some people and a lot less than others, yet almost everyone is surprised at what i can/do earn by chopping, screwing, glueing and nailing pieces of wood.
anagallis_arvensis - MemberYou are TJ and I claim my €5,00.
your the one who started chucking shit about something you clearly have no clue about. I think your quite funny, nothing makes me laugh more then someone who is clueless but so opinionated.
anagallis..... [b][i]you're[/i][/b] a teacher, yet you fail to master basic grammar. are you a PE teacher?
There are some right Master Bakers on this thread.
konabunny & MSP,
I am afraid supermarket is a rather private entity so what they earn is of little concern to me. Put if this way supermarkets have killed off the local bakers ... so you see if they many still bakers around at least they (bakers employed by supermarket) have a choice to look elsewhere.
🙄
Arent tanker drivers a private entity?
anagallis..... you're a teacher, yet you fail to master basic grammar. are you a PE teacher?
god no, pe teachers are the lowest form of life. I teach science and dont bother too much with grammar when on an interweb forum using a phone. But thanks for the corrections can i post u some books?
yup.... mail in profile. might be a bit pricey, mind... 🙂
anagallis_arvensis - MemberArent tanker drivers a private entity?
If they are then let them go ...
vondally - Memberapart from bankers or hedge fund managers would you care to name some?
12-years ago I was taking home over £500 a week order picking in a food distribution warehouse.
If they are then let them go ...
And if they return, they truly love you.
That really does basically highlight your ignorance, you don't seem to understand life outside your little bubble, but still manage to seethe with envy that someone should dare to earn a decent wage despite complete ignorance of how they earn that wage.
That might well be the case, but chewkw provides unique entertainment value to this forum, something which I am personally very grateful for. Start demanding that he makes carefully thought out well-informed comments, and the unique character of his contributions go out of the window.
Ignore them chewkw, you carry on posting your nonsensical riddles - I for one deeply appreciate them.
konabunny & MSP,I am afraid supermarket is a rather private entity so what they earn is of little concern to me.
Eh? So why the interest in fuel truck drivers? Thatcher privatized National Road Services in 1982 - truck drivers have been employees or contractors of private entities for 30 years now, no?
Eh? So why the interest in fuel truck drivers?
He's already said, quote : [i]"If they are then let them go ... "[/i]
Why don't you pay attention ?
Government set regulations denote who can drive a fuel truck, along with the training / competence certificates they must have to do so.
The union in this case wishes to set additional criteria, laid out by them, over and above that required by law, restricting the carriage of petrochemicals to people who have this industry "passport"
There is no law setting out who can and cannot bake bread
If the worshipful company of bakers sought to set out their own training regime and "passport", and said that anyone who carried flour in a vehicle had to meet the specific pay and training criteria they had set, and that if their demands were not met, their members would go out on strike and ensure nobody could buy bread - you'd probably think they were being unreasonable.
can I ask if teachers go out on strike will they get the same response as truckers....
mass panic re fuel
an element of 'sympathy' and good luck mate
an offer offer from the govt of more pay, when the pay (33.5k) is above hte national avg......
no they will castigated and pillored to high heaven.
[i]
Eh? So why the interest in fuel truck drivers?[/i]
because they seem to earn more pay than other HGV drivers/peopel with small business/public sector workers......struggling to see equity in pay....how competative the market place is when private sector wages seem to rocket and no one complains but public sector attacked over pay and conditions....appalled at unions supporting this pay dispute before others who are geniunely lowly paid.....why the private sector has not said okay you want this much lets find someone cheaper....do these drivers have a monoploy on driving skills and so on?
my dad drives tankers for a living (not petrol/oil) the week before last he worked 69 hours and drew just over £550 after deductions .I know he looked happy with that but i would rather earn less and spend more time with my family , which is why I'm a postie !
I'm not sure how he managed this legally as you can only work 56 hours (then you have to make the 2 hours extra back from the following week) a week as a hgv driver.
You can't work loads of overtime as your hours are limited by tacho laws. Any other hours such as loading/cleaning lorry etc or part time jobs must also be added to your weekly total. You have set daily and end of week hours of rest as well.
As a previous poster mentioned driving petrol tankers is a closed job only for family and close friends.
It might seem like an easy job sat on your backside all day but there is more to it than that. Motoring laws are complex and can vary depending on who stops you (vosa or police) and the fines can be huge which are payable by the driver not the company.
If they can earn 35-45k doing it, good for them. It's not like petrol companies make big profits!
can I ask if teachers go out on strike will they get the same response........an element of 'sympathy' and good luck mate
Yes. Well from me anyway. The teachers I come into contact with through my daughters who are at school do a fantastic job and are undervalued IMO. Especially if regional pay comes into being, we live in a relatively poor area and I don't want my girls to be taught by those who weren't good enough to get a job in a better paid area.
So yes, as with the tanker drivers, good luck. I hope the teachers manage to get what they deserve.
The teachers I come into contact with through my daughters who are at school do a fantastic job and are undervalued IMO
I'd be happy to see my taxes increase too.
I hope the teachers manage to get what they deserve.
We do it for the love have you not read Don Simons posts.
I'd be happy to see my taxes increase too.
I pay my fair share of taxes, I obviously wouldn't be happy to have to pay more. I'd be very happy to see what I do pay being used properly.
I take it you were happy to see the decrease in the max. rate in this years budget.
I'd be happy to see my taxes increase too.
Nothing stopping you giving the government more money than you [b]have[/b] to, just send a cheque to HMRC,
Bradford
BD98 1YY
We do it for the love have you not read Don Simons posts.
You seem to have chosen to totally misunderstand what I've written.
Won't somebody think about the children??
I think as a teacher the pay is OK but its the conditions that have become far tougher very quickly in the last year or so, by that I mean the size of classes and lack of appropriate resources. Obviously I was pissed of about the pensions and would be about removing national pay scales too. Education for state school kids is getting rapidly worse.
You seem to have chosen to totally misunderstand what I've written.
your (sic) right we do it because we're too crap to do owt else wasnt that it?
I'd be very happy to see what I do pay being used properly.
That's going to be difficult as performance management has already been highlighted as being impossible, so the only answer must be higher taxes. If teachers refuse to have their performance managed, isn't it fair that nurses do too? And soldiers? And I think firemen should be included as they were mentioned earlier, no? Let's not forgewt the police....
So the only way is to tap into the endless supply of money....
Have you lot sorted out the thorny issue of someone elses pay yet, or are you still spending Sunday flicking each others testicles with the internet equivalent of damp towels?
[b]your (sic)[/b] ??? right we do it because we're too crap to do owt else wasnt that it?
Err no. Must try harder.
So the only way is to tap into the endless supply of money....
Or raise more tax-the fairest way would be to get those who can afford it to pay, but the present government seems to think otherwise. Maybe the private sector could pay more so the employees end up paying more tax. I dunno maybe a multi million pound industry like the oil companies could pay their drivers better for instance..........Oh hang on.
(tongue in cheek BTW)
So you think the answer is that people already in the top ten percent of earners should get paid more 😯
Nothing stopping you giving the government more money than you have to, just send a cheque to HMRC,
Bradford
BD98 1YY
Classic tedious, predictable, and boring response, from a right-winger.
Because of course davidjones was suggesting that an increase from just him was what was needed 🙄
No Ernie - not just him, I'm sure [b]you[/b] can pay more as well if you really [b]want[/b] to.
Might make up for some of the 75k that bloke you're about to vote for has avoided 😉
If teachers refuse to have their performance managed
hang on, I am good with outstanding features (my nose I think) and got a pay rise due to my p's exam results being so good.... maybe I dreamt it.
your (sic) ??? right we do it because we're too crap to do owt else wasnt that it?Err no. Must try harder.
first bit was for the grammar nazi, seems I still have no clue what your point was then so maybe you need to try harder.
And of course performance management works so well in the private sector, reducing skills and experience into percentiles on spreadsheets and powerpoint presentations.
konabunny - MemberEh? So why the interest in fuel truck drivers? Thatcher privatized National Road Services in 1982 - truck drivers have been employees or contractors of private entities for 30 years now, no?
Because they are disrupting others ... causing the gov't to take "pre-emptive strike" resulting in public panic buy.
That really does basically highlight your ignorance, you don't seem to understand life outside your little bubble, but still manage to seethe with envy that someone should dare to earn a decent wage despite complete ignorance of how they earn that wage.
No, no I don't envy them. They have my respect as tanker driver by doing their jobs but when greed get better of them then something is truly wrong.
Okay, give me some examples of tankers that recently got blown up delivering fuel to petrol stations? Three examples within the past say 5 years. Yea like blowing up to pieces ...
ernie_lynch - MemberThat might well be the case, but chewkw provides unique entertainment value to this forum, something which I am personally very grateful for. Start demanding that he makes carefully thought out well-informed comments, and the unique character of his contributions go out of the window.
Ignore them chewkw, you carry on posting your nonsensical riddles - I for one deeply appreciate them.
LOL! Thanks for the support ernie ... sometimes it's very difficult to explain to the maggots that they are doing more harm than good or to get them understand my points. But then I rather them not because that will take the fun out of stepping on them maggots. Maggots! Dear Leader step on you!
Zulu-Eleven - MemberGovernment set regulations denote who can drive a fuel truck, along with the training / competence certificates they must have to do so.
The union in this case wishes to set additional criteria, laid out by them, over and above that required by law, restricting the carriage of petrochemicals to people who have this industry "passport"
There is no law setting out who can and cannot bake bread
If the worshipful company of bakers sought to set out their own training regime and "passport", and said that anyone who carried flour in a vehicle had to meet the specific pay and training criteria they had set, and that if their demands were not met, their members would go out on strike and ensure nobody could buy bread - you'd probably think they were being unreasonable.
They are trying to become legalised mafia (a bit like dental mafia, yes my dentist mate told me that ... mafia they are) by reducing the ability of others sharing the cake. Nasty greedy tricks that try to pretend to be good but actually they are only looking after their own wallets ...
The one that controls the "passport" ... the one that sets the price. Send them to North Korea to be educated!
MSP - Member
Tory boys really change their tune on the free market and the politics of envy when manual workers actually stand up for themselves and negotiate a living wage, and decent working conditions.They are not interested in personal success, just relative success.
Its normally assumed on here that so-called "Tory boys" believe in traditional economic theories and the working of the market (despite evidence that most neo-classical theory is flawed), so let's test you logic here MSP....
Trade Unions in theory can affect wage rates by three things:
1. Improve productivity
2. Strike to force higher wages
3. Restrict supply
So if this dispute is about working conditions alone, why would a Tory boy have a problem with that? If worker's have better conditions, the workforce is protected, everyone is happy and output and productivity would increase. Win-win scenario.
Of course, [b]if [/b]this was simply about higher wages alone then the Tory boys (lets say they are suppliers of capital) [b]and[/b] some of the workers (suppliers of labour say) may be concerned especially if there is not change in productivity. Assuming that basic laws of supply and demand work (???) then merely increasing the cost of labour would reduce the numbers employed. So Unite would have to trade off the total wage bill vs the wages of those in employment vs numbers of people in work. Most likely, those in employment would earn more but fewer would be employed. But this is irrelevant anyway as this dispute is not about salaries, is it?
If the unions really are sensible and want to increase [b]both pay and employment[/b], then they have to increase productivity so that the overall demand for labour shifts outwards. If as a result of this Unite can do this, working conditions would improve, productivity would rise, people would be paid more and more people would be paid. Under those assumptions why would anyone be unhappy?
OOI, why is the Ch4 lady a figure of fun when faced with George Galloway one week and a master of knowledge the next? Quite a transformation!!
Nasty greedy tricks that try to pretend to be good but actually they are only looking after their own wallets .
like all good tories then?
teamhurtmore can unions not affect wages/conditions by negotiation too? seems to be what has happened here.
Yes, why not?
But this is 'essentially' a dispute about conditions rather than pay isn't it?
dont know tbh, I just thought your view of unions a bit extreme.
anagallis_arvensis - MemberNasty greedy tricks that try to pretend to be good but actually they are only looking after their own wallets .
like all good tories then?
Let's be frank ... they are maggots as well and so are the majority of politicians regardless of their political stand. Left, right, centre etc all maggots! Like celebrities but at least celebrities get you to part with your money at your own free will.
Trade Union = productivity ... hhmmm ...
anagallis_arvensis - Memberdont know tbh, I just thought your view of unions a bit extreme.
😆 Crikey ... bit extreme? So the Union holding others to ransom?
Wasn't meant to be including any value judgments A-A!!
Perhaps 2, should say "get" higher wages then (and leave the method out of it). Impact is the same whichever.
chewkw - why wouldn't a TU be interested in securing better conditions for their members...making them happier....and presumably more productive?
teamhurtmore - Memberchewkw - why wouldn't a TU be interested in securing better conditions for their members...making them happier....and presumably more productive?
Health & Safety ...
There is Health & Safety and there is Union version of "Health & Safety" ... the latter is used as political tools.
So how many petrol tankers got blow to pieces in the past five years? Like minced meat ... Health & safety ... hmmm ...
They should only mess with H & S if several tankers got blown to pieces ... otherwise, they are just messing about. Let a few tankers blown to pieces first.
🙄
chewkw I know you talk a load of stale, dark yellow urine, but come on.
I believe the issue is not being given time (on company time), to do the daily vehicle checks, among other things. Don't think blowing up is on the agenda.