[Closed] How many killed by guns in the US since their mass shooting last week?

Q. How many members of the NRA does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: More guns

🙂

While I'm broadly in favour of greater gun control, what the US really needs to sort out is the country's weird cultural obsession with guns and violence. It's all tied up with their conception of themselves as a nation - myths about the 'old west' and 'pioneers' etc. Daft.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pcwqx

The comments are entertaining.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of elementary school kids with an assault rifle.

This message is approved by the National Rifle Association.

I think they should have a go at not making a deal out of the killer.

So they know they will be forgotten, Victims are forgotten by all who don't know them whereas a serial killer becomes famous.

Also focus needs to be on mental heath etc of the people who have guns, as thats more of a problem than the gun itself.

someone mentally ill without a gun is far less of a problem than someone mentally ill with an assault weapon

It may be easier to address access to guns than mental health

Its NRA type spin to suggest its just the mental illness its not its access to guns - some of whom who have access are mentally ill but most of the deaths [ if not sprees] will be done by sane folk

The NRA should know - the son of the NRA president is doing 10 years for using a gun in a road rage incident.

Now there I was under the impression that the only real way to deal with nutters with guns, was to give the non-nutters bigger and/or more guns....USA logic at it's best

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someone mentally ill without a gun is far less of a problem than someone mentally ill with an assault weapon

It may be easier to address access to guns than mental health

Agree, probably didn't word it in the best way.

I was meaning more toward the uk system, very hard to get a gun if you have mental illness/history of violence etc.

There are far to many variables to pin this down to one answer. So many issues need to be addressed.

I do like the facebook one circulating that your right to carry gunships outweighed by my right not to be shot by one.

Unfortunately it goes much deeper into culture that people don't see it as a problem.

I think anyone who can carry a gunship should be allowed to. It's not like I'm going to tell them no anyway.

Interesting that Radio 4 programme

30 people killed with handguns in the UK 2009/10 (last figures)

Well, banning handguns worked well, didn't it!

30 people killed with handguns in the UK 2009/10 (last figures)

Well, banning handguns worked well, didn't it!

It's impossible to say - got any Control data?

Impossible to say as we'll never know what the figures would have been if handguns hadn't been banned.

And of course Zulu-Eleven is intelligent enough to know that, but said it anyway to provoke a reaction. What do they call that again?

I think they call it fundamentally disagreeing with the premise that banning things as a sticking plaster rather than tackling underlying social problems works, as even when you ban things, determined people can and will still access them.

Zulu-Eleven - Member
Interesting that Radio 4 programme

30 people killed with handguns in the UK 2009/10 (last figures)

Well, banning handguns worked well, didn't it!

Despite the trollish nature of the post.

I'm genuinely suprised the number is that low. I'd have expected that just for Shottingham....

Well, maybe London

30 people killed with handguns in the UK 2009/10 (last figures)

Well, banning handguns worked well, didn't it!

Hard to tell, but we could try comparing it with a country with widespread easy access to hand guns. Like say the USA, where they have well over 10,000 handgun murders a year (not to mention roughly similar numbers of people comitting suicide with guns)

So banning handguns does not completly stop gun murders, but does appear to make it an order of magnitude less common, which has to be a good thing.

So looking at the statistic you've provided,it looks like banning handguns is a brilliant success.

It's obviously hard to tell if the ban specifically did that obviously, it could also be due to our incredibly strict compared to the US gun controls generally.

And of course Zulu-Eleven is intelligent enough to know that, but said it anyway to provoke a reaction. What do they call that again?

Zulu-Eleven - Member
Interesting that Radio 4 programme

30 people killed with handguns in the UK 2009/10 (last figures)

Well, banning handguns worked well, didn't it!

US gun homicides

2009: 9,146
2008: 9,484
2007: 10,129
2006: 10,225
2005: 10,158
2004: 9,385
2003: 9,659
2002: 9,369
2001: 8,890
1999: 8,259
1998: 9,257

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

works quite well, aye

The reason so few are killed by handguns here is because of the idiots who fire them - they (the majority of neds) have no training whatsoever in their use, they then have a 'feud' with a rival, which involves going armed with their 'shooter', and when it comes to pulling the trigger, they aim for the chest or head, and invariably miss the centre of the target, thus taking an ear off, or hitting an arm/shoulder.
If they were trained in the smallest way, or had fired a gun before, then there would be more deaths, but luckily, as handguns are banned, they can never practice legally, and doing so illegally would have them arrested in short order unless they could find a suitably quiet, remote location , and being as it is mostly urban thugs who do the shooting, they are very unlikely to know somewhere where they can practice their shooting, along with the difficulty in obtaining ammunition (harder than buying an illegal gun I am told), this conspires to make us safer.

As for legally held guns, apart from the 3 outrages here in the last 25 years, we are one of the most law abiding gun owners anywhere in the World. Very few legally held guns are used in a criminal activity - the biggest danger from the owner of a legally held gun is the owner him/her self - sadly, there are a lot of suicides each year from their own gun.

Raw numbers are meaningless.

UK population: 62,641,000/30 = 1 per 2,088,033
US population: 311,591,917/10,000 = 1 per 31,159

A random inhabitant is 67 times more likely to be shot dead in the US than in the UK, if I have that right.

They're 48 times more likely to be able to get a cup of coffee in less than fifteen minutes, though, so it's not all bad news.

Interesting little snippet from the Gunpolicy site;

Civilian Guns
CompareNumber of Privately Owned Firearms
The estimated total number of guns held by civilians in the United Kingdom is 4,060,000
CompareRate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Population
The rate of private gun ownership in the United Kingdom is 6.7 firearms per 100 people
CompareNumber of Licensed Firearm Owners
The number of licensed gun owners in the United Kingdom is reported to be 861,958
CompareRate of Licensed Firearm Owners per 100 Population
The rate of licensed firearm owners in the United Kingdom is 1.46 per 100 people
CompareNumber of Registered Firearms
The number of registered guns in the United Kingdom is reported to be 2,158,572
CompareRate of Registered Firearms per 100 Population
The rate of registered firearms per 100 people in the United Kingdom is 3.48
CompareNumber of Privately Owned Shotguns
In the United Kingdom, the number of shotguns in civilian possession is reported to be 1,503,850

They also have the total number of gun deaths in the UK at

In the United Kingdom, annual deaths resulting from firearms total

2009: 138

Which is a figure I would have expected more than 30, includes all gun deaths though.

A tedious predictable counterbalance to the tedious predictable sanctimony of the Brits holding forth on American culture while demonstrating their ignorance of it.

Why not show us some of your insight then? Because just being sneery and superior isn't massively helpful.

I'll post up my dissertation on violence in modern American history if you like. 😉

The NRA is lobbying for all tourists to be allowed to carry a gun. They argue that you will be safer and enjoy your trip more.

Well its only a matter of time..

[quote=piemonster ]They also have the total number of gun deaths in the UK at
In the United Kingdom, annual deaths resulting from firearms total
2009: 138
Which is a figure I would have expected more than 30, includes all gun deaths though.
Maybe the 138 is total deaths (murder, suicide, accident) and the 30 is murders only?

piemonster - Member

I'm genuinely suprised the number is that low. I'd have expected that just for Shottingham....

It's a fear of crime thing- we're always hearing about how we've got an "epidemic of gun crime" and how gangs are running around shooting people all the time, in fact actual shootings are very rare.

The 138 will include suicides.

Possibly, I believe Z11 did quote it as hand gun deaths

Number of Handgun Homicides
ChartIn the United Kingdom, annual handgun homicides total

2008: 4
2007: 2
2006: 3
2005: 3
2004: 2
2003: 3
2001: 1
CompareRate of Handgun Homicide per 100,000 People
ChartIn the United Kingdom, the annual rate of handgun homicide per 100,000 population is

2008: 0.01
2007: 0.00
2006: 0.01
2005: 0.01
2004: 0.00
2003: 0.01
2001: 0.00

A tedious predictable counterbalance to the tedious predictable sanctimony of the Brits holding forth on American culture while demonstrating their ignorance of it.

Well, I LOLed.

Number of Handgun Homicides
ChartIn the United Kingdom, annual handgun homicides total

2008: 4
2007: 2
2006: 3
2005: 3
2004: 2
2003: 3
2001: 1

So handgun deaths went up 400% between 2001 and 2008, therefore banning them is obviously completely ineffective.

Why not show us some of your insight then?

what the US really needs to sort out is the country's weird cultural obsession with guns and violence.

being sneery and superior isn't massively helpful.

And of course Zulu-Eleven is intelligent enough to know that, but said it anyway to provoke a reaction. What do they call that again?

Nope. This:

A tedious predictable counterbalance to the tedious predictable sanctimony of the Brits holding forth on American culture while demonstrating their ignorance of it.

plus:

Oh, the iron supplements.

still puts you in the

sneery and superior

konabunny - again, you're not really saying anything are you?

I've studied American history as my main subject in the final year of my degree - focussing on what makes up their national identity, cultural myths etc I'm not claiming to be an expert but there is a lot of cultural baggage around the idea of the 'rugged individualist' able to solve his own problems through direct action/violence.

Obviously it's not an overriding factor for every single American but it does exist. Plenty of literature on the subject if you can be arsed reading it.

Again, if you have some of your own insight you'd like to share I'm all ears.

Compulsory corporal punishment and marching ought to be introduced into all american schools until they can learn to behave in a proper way, going round shooting folk is a disgrace !

So handgun deaths went up 400% between 2001 and 2008, therefore banning them is obviously completely ineffective.

Jesus H Corbett, hadn't looked at it that way.

I'm going to panic and fear and buy the Mail and stuff like that.

WE ARE DOOMED

[i]I've studied American history as my main subject in the final year of my degree - focussing on what makes up their national identity, cultural myths etc I'm not claiming to be an expert but there is a lot of cultural baggage around the idea of the 'rugged individualist' able to solve his own problems through direct action/violence. [/i]

But how much time did you spend there? The one time I'll never forget is been at a house party where I got into a conversation with a Creationist. Gobsmacked. Probably a good thing we did get onto guns...

I'll post up my dissertation on violence in modern American history if you like.

Weird, my dissertation was very similar to yours, although I showed how violence in films has been used in the US to reflect socio-political trends throughout the 20th century.

Leeds University? Professor Murdoch? 🙂

But how much time did you spend there?

Been there a few times - travelled around a bit. Never been to the Bible Belt though.

there is a lot of cultural baggage around the idea of the 'rugged individualist'

Yep. This can be seen in their choice of cars as well. All those big trucks. "I'm a frontiersman, really, you know". No, no, you're not. You're an accountant, working in a business park somewhere in suburban Los Angeles. You're really not a frontiersman.

[i]But how much time did you spend there? The one time I'll never forget is been at a house party where I got into a conversation with a Creationist. Gobsmacked. Probably a good thing we did get onto guns... [/i]

I was once in a data centre in Dallas and the manager was telling me about the security around access.

"And this here is the reception desk. Now y'all see there's this 3 inch thick perspex plate between us and the guys on the desk and that'll stop just about any gun known to man.

'cept maybe my .44 magnum.

I got it in the trunk of my truck, I'll show y'all later."