[Closed] How am I going to saw 30 oak sleepers in half?

True in theory, but an unfortunate state of affairs if nobody cares about anyone potentially hurting themselves.

But where does it stop? It’s elfin safety gawn mad it is. If someone wants to know the quickest way down a slippery slope then no matter if recommended shoes or socks or Crocs it’s not your job to caution, it’s up to the enquirer to provide themselves with a safe landing. Are strawpeople now expected to always offer safety advice to OPs otherwise they’ll be sued or worse still canceled????? All you do-gooders are really doing is growing the nanny-state and encouraging an ever-increasing litigious nancy-pants culture/society.

PS OP handsaw for the win and workout.

PPS it’s Crocs for the fastest way down a slippery slope. Any slippery slope you might care to imagine.

Avidly,

MAJ T. Esther
Flagsham Planorium
Harumphington
Sussex

I’m concerned with the number of people recommending a chainsaw, circular saw or chop saw. Basically all these tools are extremely dangerous if you have little to no experience of them. I did a 2 day course in chainsaws and wouldn't recommend one.

I totally agree. I think some people see it as very 'manly' to own and use a chainsaw, which is just complete egotistical nonsense. I love buying new power tools as much as the next person, but I ALWAYS get advice and if possible, some 'training' from someone who has experience of using potentially lethal tools. Listen to those who know. Anyone who is recommending using a chainsaw to cut some oak timber, should not be listened to. As others have suggested; buy a hardpoint saw from whatever DIY/Tool suppliers are near to you, and spend an hour or so cutting them. Great workout, and far, far safer than using a chainsaw. And if you really want the 'manly' bit, then obviously a hand saw is far more macho, because you're not relying on power other than your own strength, to do the job. Grrr.

I think it may have already been mentioned, but wax the blade with candlewax (I use a tealight pulled out of the foil tin, just rub it on the teeth). This helps lubricate the blade, and helps lessen heat build up, which leads to the blade wearing faster. Take your time, and don't force the saw; let the blade to the work. There's a knack to sawing wood, and once you've got that, you'll find sawing anything by hand, much easier. I own a chop/mitre saw, but it's been round a friend's house for about 5 years now, when he borrowed it for a job and then it's been left in a cupboard since. There's been a couple of times I could probably have done with it to speed things up on a job, but it's ultimately proven unnecessary.

If you want a square cut, then you can use a set/T-square to draw a line all around the piece, then turn it over when you get part of the way through. Won't be as neat as a machine, but you've said you don't need it perfect anyway. Have fun!

Are these new green oak sleepers or old, covered in tar sleepers?
If the former, Footflaps suggestion of a tracked chainsaw looks spot on. If they're old, the oak will be rock hard. film yourself and give us all a laugh.
Any circular saw is going to have to be effin massive. My 65mm 2.3kW saw scared the shit out of me and I only ever used it clamped in a bench. The depth of cut will be much less at an angle.
Have fun!

For some reason I assumed you wanted to Rip saw the sleepers. If you just want to cut them in half use a handsaw. Far easier than poncing about with powah...

Get a chainsaw, it'll be fun!
http://imgur.com/gallery/qOTT5nd

Right, so:

I am highly risk averse.

I take aot of care to be as safe as possible.

I like hand tools.

I only have one 'man' available, and my wife who is happy to do work but is nowhere near as strong as me and will struggle with that much work, so a two man saw is out.

I feel no desire to prove my manliness with power tools or any other kind of tool (see hipster wqnker axe thread), that's all stupid.

I do like a good workout outside cycling.

I did just stop by B&Q for a circular saw and I bought a DeWalt one.

I think I may buy a hand saw, try it, then return this circular saw depending on how I get on. I'll buy four saw horses to hold up both halves. I will probably be making quite a bit more cuts than 30 as I have a load of edges to do as well.

Any tips on hand saws?

Go slower than you think you need to and you'll cut quicker.

They aren't real railway sleepers by the way, just oak timbers 100x200x2.4m

And if you really want the ‘manly’ bit, then obviously a hand saw is far more
macho, because you’re not relying on power other than your own strength, to do the job. Grrr.

Cultural psychology question:

If the above statement were true then which of the following is the manliest way to fetch 40kg of groceries? Vin Diesel vs van diesel?

*Answer: C. You’re too busy with powertools to fetch groceries. Send the good woman in her Croydon tractor.

I’ll buy make four enough saw horses to hold up both halves.

ftfy

Sounds like a sensible approach OP.

Hand saws are definitely very capable and I find often give a better cut than a circular saw, particularly for cutting boards or laminate (it is probably that I am better at setting up and using the handsaw) but the circular saw is a very good tool for cutting. I originally bought mine for cutting wooden worktops and the other thing it has been great for was laminate flooring, both with selecting an appropriate blade first.

I have an electric chainsaw for cutting logs and firewood, mainly using a log horse. It is beast that can catch you out.
See that clip above. My dad was very lucky to only end up with 80 stitches in his face when the chainsaw jumped when cutting firewood, something he has been doing since the 70s, and he was wearing a helmet with visor at the time!

Your approach seems spot on.

Any tips on hand saws?

Any generic 'hardpoint' handsaw with a low teeth count (8Tpi or so) will do the job. You can often get packs of 5 or more for not much. Screwfix have an 'Irwin Jack' 8Tpi saw for £5.99. Oak will blunt a saw quite quickly, as it's dense, hard stuff, but using wax will help a lot with that. As I said before; let the blade do the work. If you try to force the saw, as many 'beginners' do, the flexible blade will warp and twist, and make things even harder.

Go slower than you think you need to and you’ll cut quicker.

This is true. Your first few will be bloody hard work, then you'll start to get the feel of it more. Subsequent cuts will be straighter and easier. Oak is easier than some other woods. Iroko, for one. That stuff is really hard to work with, and has nasty toxic dust. It should go without saying,that you should wear a mask, even outdoors, whatever wood you're cutting. And definitely eye protection if you're using power tools.

Other complication is that I'm back at work tomorrow and my wife thinks she can use the circular saw but won't have the endurance to use a hand saw. She's pretty good with tools generally but I'd still worry like hell.

OTOH if I can hand saw them in an evening after work we'll save £110.

If that was true then which is the manliest way to fetch 40kg of groceries*?

*Answer: C. You’re too busy with powertools to fetch groceries. Send the good woman in her Croydon tractor.

Wrong. It's D: you are rich and successful enough to have the 'power' to employ someone else to do such menial tasks for you. And you are rich and successful because you are so manly. You'd know this, if you were a real man.

^ C = D & D = C

You’d know this, if you were a real man.

She’s pretty good with tools generally but I’d still worry like hell.

OTOH if I can hand saw them in an evening after work we’ll save £110.

Just pay her in kind?

(Obligatory satire disclaimer because it’s 2021)

OTOH if I can hand saw them in an evening after work we’ll save £110.

If you'd bought a hand saw yesterday you'd have had them all done already.

OTOH if I can hand saw them in an evening after work we’ll save £110.

A circular saw is a poor tool for that type of task anyway. Circular saws are best for cutting large sheets/panels, accurately. That type of circular saw is vastly inferior to a plunge saw (the blade and motor mechanism is sprung loaded so retracts up clear of the baseplate, meaning it's a much safer tool. you can set the plunge depth as well, so you can cut partially into a piece, rather than all the way through, so good if you were needing to cut through say an existing worktop to adapt it, without damaging the structure underneath. You can also start a cut in the middle of a piece, not just at the edge. Plunge saws are often used with a 'track' system, which enables very accurate clean cuts. Just a much better tool. Take that thing back and get a plunge saw. Not from BnQ.

You know B&Q will cut timber to length before you get it home?

my wife thinks she can use the circular saw but won’t have the endurance to use a hand saw. She’s pretty good with tools generally but I’d still worry like hell

I make no comment on her competence or otherwise but if it worries you, take the circular back today.

All power tools are just applied violence, circular saws hide it less than others.

I’ll buy four saw horses to hold up both halves

Given that you're outdoors an not on dead level ground keep in mind that two of those horse are to catch the wood you cut off, not hold its weight while you cut.  (presuming you're right handed) The weight of the sleeper wants to be on the left two horses only (a bit tricky for you as you're cutting in the middle so the cut line means the supports won't be under the balance point). The horses under the off cut only need to be a mm or so lower but the need to be placed so that off cut can fall slightly onto them

If theres weight bearing on the right two horses then as you near the end of cutting the weight of the wood will close the cut line and jam the blade. Only annoying with a handsaw but a circular saw would kick back.

If you're using a circular saw for the cuts then both hands are on the saw and you don't have a hand free to steady the wood on the sawhorses so you'll need to do a bit of clamping and figure out some balast to keep weight off the off-cut

Your sleepers won't be dead flat / straight so each time you set up for a cut make sure theres no upward pressure on the off cut and that both the left hand horses are bearing weight - just flip the plank over if need be.

Other complication is that I’m back at work tomorrow and my wife thinks she can use the circular saw but won’t have the endurance to use a hand saw.

As mentioned earlier - a piece of 2400x200x100 oak will weigh at least 70kg. And also as mentioned earlier - don't be daunted by the effort and try it - saws were invented for cutting wood.  Endurance isn't really an issue if you're sawing by hand as you can stop as often as you like and unless the wood is very wet or your set up is awkward then a cut won't take very long.

And it seems like a a daft thing but it wouldn't hurt to watch a YouTube tutorial on something like using a handsaw -its the sort of thing that's simple if you know how but the errors aren't obvious if you don't.

I like my chop saw. But as i stated above, bolt it to something solid. Mine lives bolted to a cheap workmate clone. Its great but it always is treated with care. A good sharp hand saw is almost as much fun. Just be careful whatever you use.

That chainsaw video made me feel sick. I’ll never own one.

Other complication is that I’m back at work tomorrow and my wife thinks she can use the circular saw but won’t have the endurance to use a hand saw. She’s pretty good with tools generally but I’d still worry like hell.

OTOH if I can hand saw them in an evening after work we’ll save £110.

https://www.toolstation.com/roughneck-bow-saw/p36245

You'll be through them in a lot less time than that.
Get the wife on the other side.(twice as easy and helps get the rhythm going).. take a break after every few and carry one through to wherever its going. Maybe grab a spare blade or two

You can still buy a circular, I just wouldn't use it for this.

I have chainsaw, circular saw, mitre saw and tractor saw bench available.

I've been using a handsaw to cut sleepers from the old shed, a knackered builders cast off saw because they are old wet tarred sleepers. Can do 2 or 3 cuts in the time it just takes to get the power tools out.

If they were new clean dry timber, I'd probably use the silky saw, most dangerous of all handsaws.

I bought a titan electric chainsaw when building a retaining wall out of sleepers. It was about £45 from screw fix and did a great job. Safety wise, I've been known to wear flip flops and hold wood in place with my feet when cutting. Now that might sound bloody stupid but at no point using it have I ever had any issues. Always have a sharp blade, learn how to sharpen it correctly etc. Learn how to cut with it too. A chainsaw is only as dangerous as the person operating it and as the electric one stops instantly it really isn't a nasty prospect.

I'd treat a petrol one very differently though!

You need fingers to grip handlebars, and even the loss of a single digit, let along three means an end to cycling.

You haven't met Tommy Caldwell.

Chopped his forefinger off with a circular saw and Redpoints 9a+

A chainsaw is only as dangerous as the person operating it

advice is only as dangerous as the person offering it

I have a Festool Kapex and it scares the crap out of me using it, had it bite a few times and the whole thing judders - almost crap myself. As soon as a I start it, the speed and size of the blade makes you realise that your whole hand would be gone in a flash....

Shaped charges?

I have a Festool Kapex and it scares the crap out of me using it

Sell it to me then I can stretch to 40 quid and 2 packets of princess marshmallows.

I'll give you £50 and THREE packets of Haribo Tangfastics. Can't say fairer than that.

I’d probably use the silky saw, most dangerous of all handsaws.

Now that I can agree with, it's a vicious beast if it bounces in a cut, makes a right mess of your hand.

That chainsaw video, the man deserves what he nearly got, utterly inappropriate use of a chainsaw, the most dangerous thing there was the operator.

If you really want to get manly you need one of these
I really miss having access to these, 2 blades 2 axis cutting computer controlled and with a digital length stop hands free, just press the button and step back, auto shields, auto clamping.

a piece of 2400x200x100 oak will weigh at least 70kg

48kg according to the supplier's website.

and THREE packets of Haribo Tangfastics. Can’t say fairer than that.

Having a a laugh this one, no way can haribo tangfastics be compared to Princess Marshmallows. No way

English oak weighs about 45lbs per cubic foot- 1 Cubic foot is a board 12'x12"x1"
American white is a little bit heavier.

For those enjoying the restoration vids on YT, here's a manly saw for dissecting big timbers.
The scariest of scaries, the Swing Saw.

You need fingers to grip handlebars, and even the loss of a single digit, let along three means an end to cycling.

While I'm all for safety, were you drunk when you wrote this? You think losing a finger will be the end of cycling? Then this man probably wants a chat

She’s pretty good with tools generally

Evidently

Sorry Moly, couldn't resist.

I'm waiting for the 'I took my saw to bits and now have it in 1000 pieces...' thread

48kg according to the supplier’s website.

Pretty small ... I use these for the fireplace and composter but the borders/wall is made of reclaimed sidings ones which are MUCH bigger and heavier.

Either way stick a strap under when lifting off pallets etc. to avoid fingers getting caught... even 48kg will sting if it drops on a finger.

I used to work for a guy, you know the type, “no, it’ll be fine, I’ve got plenty of experience with a chainsaw”
He can’t walk properly now as he was cutting up some felled trees and one of them rolled against the other while he was standing between them.
Totally mangled from the knee down, he had an external metal thing fitted between knee and ankle for a number of months.
He, now, recognises that he didn’t really know what he was doing with a chainsaw.
Common sense isn’t actually all that common.
All this happened when he was about 30, he’ll be in his early 60s now, so half of his life not walking properly.
I take any safety precautions seriously.

The scariest of scaries, the Swing Saw.

That looks like something out of a 2000AD creation, that would be on the arm of some crazed cyborg. Madness. What could possibly go wrong?

48kg according to the supplier’s website.

My maths might be wildly off, but I'm getting about 34.5kg for a 240x20x10cm piece, @ 720kg per cubic metre?

Common sense isn’t actually all that is all too common. Actual sense, not so much.

ftfy

He can’t walk properly now as he was cutting up some felled trees and one of them rolled against the other while he was standing between them.

That bit seems the hardest to work out, was reading about felling in forests on sloping ground and predicting what happens to each half of the tree when you finish your cut is quite tricky - occasionally ends up with someone being crushed to death when one half of the tree flips off in the wrong direction eg moves uphill.

My maths might be wildly off, but I’m getting about 34.5kg for a 240x20x10cm piece, @ 720kg per cubic metre?

No thats about right.
English oak is about an average of 670kg per cubic meter and American white oak is about 750kg per cubic meter.
Japanese oak is comparable to English and Persian is comparable to American. Turkish oak is about 870kg per cubic meter and Evergreen oak is an average of between 800 and 960kg/c/m.
(I've a book from college - Handbook of hardwoods that lists all the properties of all the commercial hardwoods, its actually been invaluable over the years.)

when one half of the tree flips off in the wrong direction eg moves uphill.

The barberchair.
The tree splits as the backcut is made,as it falls it can send the trunk backwards into the operator, or if its high off to either side. Luck denotes its the operators side

Did just this 2 years ago and again this year, on 125x250 sleepers, about 40 of them.

Chainsaw works best, some good advise above on using one safely - I had a petrol erbauer model from screw fix. I had the chainsaw gloves and that helped. My hardwood sleepers were ridiculously heavy and I had to swap out the chain at some point.

For the other garden project I used 100x200 sleepers and I was able to use my srewfix mitre saw that would just cut through them in a single pass, made the whole job much easier.

I did have to cut a few sleepers with a handsaw and I really wouldn’t recommend it.

I have a Festool Kapex

Genuine tool envy here. Saw one demonstrated a few years ago; feels so solid and precise. I needed a chop saw to do our decking, but couldn't justify even the KS60. Went with a decent Makita which was on silly special offer, but it's been sat in a friend's house since I did the deck. He used it once and put it away in a cupboard. So it's actually been pretty poor value for money. He's badgering me to take it back, as it's taking up space. I might just sell it to be honest; a decent chop/mitre saw is a great tool if you need one, but unless you're doing regular work with it, it's bulky and redundant most of the time.

For the other garden project I used 100×200 sleepers and I was able to use my srewfix mitre saw that would just cut through them in a single pass

@walowiz what model was that?

Prob https://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-emis305s-305mm-electric-double-bevel-sliding-mitre-saw-220-240v/736fv

@walowiz what model was that?

@molgrips It was this one Erbauer EMIS254S 254mm Electric Double-Bevel Sliding Mitre - still at the same price as I paid - £180, but I figured I had more than enough projects to justify it. I don;t knwo how it compares to Festool etc, but for the money its very nicely made, solid and importantly cuts really well.

I combined it with a mitre saw stand (from Aldi of all places - as the Erbauer one wasn't in stock for ages) and using the mitre saw on a proper stand made cutting the sleepers way easier.

Link https://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-emis254s-254mm-electric-double-bevel-sliding-mitre-saw-220-240v/244fv

I don;t knwo how it compares to Festool etc, but for the money its very nicely made, solid and importantly cuts really well.

90% of the functionality for 20% of the price

I have a Festool Kapex

Genuine tool envy here. Saw one demonstrated a few years ago; feels so solid and precise.

Such a shame they put the handle on the wrong way...

90% of the functionality for 20% of the price

@footflaps lol, I really really wanted a festool, but everytime I looked at the full cost, I had to go and have a little sit down.

It says 90mm cut on that saw, is it typical for the cut to be a little more than advertised? I mean, a 254mm blade is clearly more than 100mm in diameter.

Such a shame they put the handle on the wrong way…

Tell me about it. I've a dewalt dw700 which also has a vertical handle and its really difficult to use. Not keen on it at all.

It says 90mm cut on that saw, is it typical for the cut to be a little more than advertised? I mean, a 254mm blade is clearly more than 100mm in diameter.

Theres a bit more to it than that. The mount, the guard and casing get in the way. Or someties the saw is direct drive and the placing of the motor limits depth of cut.

Opting for the screwfix saw then are we ?
Best check this out, and please take note thats a little saw, not the beast that screwfix are doing.
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/leeds-grandad-chopped-entire-hand-19438924

You;ll notice he didnt use the clamp.
If thats not the best representation of a sheepish face, I don't know what is

It says 90mm cut on that saw, is it typical for the cut to be a little more than advertised? I mean, a 254mm blade is clearly more than 100mm in diameter.

But the spindle, motor, blade guard mechanism etc are all in the way and stop the blade getting exactly half way into the wood.