[Closed] Hi-Fi upgrades - worthwhile, or emperors new clothes? (turntable content)

I'm hoping to arrange my room around the system, it will certainly take more of a center stage then it used to.

I particularly like the fancy wooden turntable rack earlier in the thread, has got me thinking a bit more about how I mount my Planar 2.

Incedently, what do you guys think of swapping my plinth and motor for the RP25 that i mentioned? £200 for the uprated deck and motor - and I could just stick on my tonearm and other upgrades..?
Seems a relatively cheap way to an almost complete P25.. (Would be nice to have an RB600 though)

I'd love to hear some quality Rega speakers, nice to hear that you are still completely satisfied with yours

Right now I'm concentrating mostly on the turntable and snapping up various little upgrades. Namely:
Twin belt pulley with silicon belts
Alu sub platter
Rubber/cork mat
Thrust bearing
Motor isolation shroud
Upper plinth metal bracing
Tungsten counterweight from RB300 (RB250 fitted)

I have a Thorens TD126 with SME S3 tonearm and Ortofon 530 mk2 cart. The biggest improvement I found was to put it on a thick oak offcut (from our kitchen worktop), and run a layer of blutak round the inside of the platter. Cost £0.

Have you timed your TT speed? I wonder if the bluetack slowed it a little? (sometimes prefereable)

Have you timed your TT speed? I wonder if the bluetack slowed it a little? (sometimes prefereable)

Speed is adjustable and it has a timing strobe. I can't recall if I had to tweak it after the blutack mod though.

Bluetak on a hard platter will add a degree of damping. It won't affect the speed unless it's touching something else, in which case you've put it on the wrong bit 🙂 HTH

The best vinyl I ever found and played? Paul Simon - Hearts and Bones, Donald Fagen - The Nightfly, and Dire Straits - Love Over Gold, Bob Ludwig and Masterdisk the common factor.
He's still mastering recordings, but not at Masterdisk any more, but he is The Man as far as I'm

I got a copy of the Nightfly for £3 recently - just had a look and my copy is mastered by Bob Ludwig. Can't remember if holy light came down from heaven when I listened to it or not though. Guess I should have another listen and see

Do report back and tell us! I'm intrigued 🙂

Few of us have the luxury of a dedicated listening room. Decent kit will sound better than rubbish even in a normal living room. My ATC speakers sound a lot better than anything else I've had in my well furnished space. Bass traps, etc. are the icing on the cake and impractical in most households.

I don't think anyone would disagree with you, it's all down to personal circumstances and budget

Decent kit will sound better than rubbish even in a normal living room

That's certainly my experience too.

As a bit of an aside again, what forums etc do people use to get their hi-fi fix? The STW of audio as it were?

Pink Fish Media is the forum I use.

I've been loving vinyl engine the last 24hrs.

Have new silicone belt fitted this afternoon, also have a 'vibration jacket' to fit over the motor this evening. Dubious, but worth a punt at the price!

Thinking of ordering a ceramic bearing for the new sub platter - any observations here guys?
Well actually, maybe two, the other for the thrust bearing I'm going to fit

EDIT: Feel free to ponder why I have 12 channels of amplification

Active FTW 😀

Thinking of ordering a ceramic bearing for the new sub platter - any observations here guys? Well actually, maybe two, the other for the thrust bearing I'm going to fit.

I doubt I'd be able to hear a difference unless the existing bearings were knackered, but your mileage may vary.

When I was doing up my TD160 the things I could hear a difference with were:
- switching to a vinyl mat (I actually bought it because it looked good but I'm convinced it improved the sound a tad, maybe just because it's flatter)
- setting the arm at the correct height/angle. The RB250 is a little low and it was previously bodged on. Getting a proper adaptor looked better and seemed to make the deck perform better as well.
- changing cartridges - it wasn't just about whether they were better cartridges (the one I liked best wasn't the most expensive I tried) but which suited the system best. With my TD160 that was a Denon DL110
- phono stage - the Naim amp I'm using has a very good phono stage but the two-box external one I'm doing now is a bit smoother and more to my taste. It was system dependent though - with my main system (also Naim amps but seperate pre/power/pre-amp power-supply) the built in Naim phono stage suited it better.
- wall rack - in my Edinburgh house I had footfall issues so moving the LP12 to a wall mounted table was a huge upgrade. In my London flat the floor is more solid and I've not had any footfall issues so haven't used a wall mounted table here.

Messing around with cables, counterweights, bearings, braces, top-plates, plinths and the likes I can't say I've found made a difference or at least not that I could hear. I haven't done anything with power supplies yet although that is one thing I might change on my LP12 although mainly there to make playing 45's easier.

I'm on Pink Fish Media and Hifi Wigwam really just for the classifieds now but I sometimes have a read. There's a rega p9 going for £450 at the mo, frankly if you can stretch just get a new deck it's easier and cheaper long term.
Over the years I've come to a couple of conclusions about hifi - Right or wrong.

Speakers make the most difference to the sound but not the absolute quality. I'd still rather have 5k speakers on 2k of electrics, oh and size matters!

Amps don't make all that much difference you'd be surprised at how little amp you need, see naits, exposure XX, NVA,Sugden etc etc (I've had a Lavardin IT it was alright I suppose but 5k better than a nait 2? -nope)
If you have a TT stick it on a shelf and think of it as a precision measuring device, it is. Get the best cartridge/phono stage you can, with TT's engineering matters so more money usually [u]is [/u]better.
Room set up makes a massive difference I like this guide, http://www.audiophysic.de/aufstellung/index_e.html
Cables - Not going there, suffice to say I use cheap van damme cable all round. I worked in a shop so tried some uber expensive cables didn't notice any difference TBH but could spot equipment changes easily, it was enough to convince me..

In my London flat I have a very simple system - Thorens TD160mk2 turntable (RB250 and DL110), custom made two-box phone stage, Sheng Da valve CD player, Naim Nait 3 integrated amp, Rega Kyte speakers (currently on the floor!), QED headphone amp and AKG headphones. Everything except the headphones was 2nd hand and fairly cheap but it sounds good. I think there might be a few expensive cables in there but only because I had still had them from earlier cable dablings!

It was quite fun putting it together 2nd hand - the Rega Kytes in particular a great little set of speakers and didn't cost much at all. The turntable was originally a spare I used occasionally as a backup for the LP12. It was originally a bit ratty but a few simple upgrades had it sounding good., and it looks decent now as well.

The turntable is spinning a bit of Sinatra at the moment. Very relaxing!

I did a lot of dabling over the years - a lot of it wasted money - until I understood what I liked and also that what was important to me was the balance of the system, not whether an individual component was the best or not. For example the Naim integrated I use sounds better with a more relaxed CD player (hence the one I use with a valve output stage) than it did paired with a much more expensive Naim CD player. Conversely the system in my place up in Edinburgh had better amps and the Naim CD player is much better in it.

I worked in hi fi retail and manufacturing for a bit and tinkered with my turntable (a TD160)

A good PSU made a huge difference (I used a Linn Valhalla, £50 sh 20 years ago), as did rewiring the tonearm with enamelled copper wire, and decent light rigid supports for TT and speakers especially. Oh and a ringmat.

I've had a Lavardin IT it was alright I suppose but 5k better than a nait 2? -nope

I've still got a Nait 2 I bought from new. Haven't used it in years, but it's a great little amp and perfect for use with turntables - I used it with a Linn Axis. 13 watts per channel has never sounded so powerful! Seriously makes a mockery of quoting wattage on amps. I should really get this system back up and running with some modern high-end speakers. I reckon it would be pretty cool for a nostalgic vinyl session.

Replaced it with a Naim pre/power combo and a Naim CDX, which is just stunning. It was an expensive upgrade at the time, but the difference in sound quality was epic. That's still the best system I've ever heard without spending serious amounts of cash.

Having said that, I'm now convinced that CD is dead in the water with hard disk/ network players reaching maturity.

more good advice, thanks guys.

Jules - im particularly enjoying following your links. Im also intigued by the P9 for £450! where was it listed?.. I cant spot it..

Sitting here devouring pages of hi-fi info whilst listening to Dream River by Bill Callahan, so darn relaxing. Great mix too.

Sorry P6 Here http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=162366&page=2&highlight=Rega

But it looks like this though!
[img] [/img]

Ah yes, spotted that.. It's, awful, isn't it.
However, it's a cracking price. I'd be tempted to buy a replacement plinth into favourite colour (green!) for £175 ish and then try and flog the Union Jack for anything over £100..

I did not spot that sorry but he hasn't posted any pics?

Says Union Jack version on first post.

After wanting to try them out for god knows how long, I finally installed some granite plinths today! First real upgrade for this system fitted.
First impressions, after amp warmed up there's certainly a little more punch to the bass on Dylan's Pat Garrett soundtrack (vinyl), I'm also picking up more distinct separation (lovely!) and crisper twangs to the fabulous guitar string plucking. So far so good 🙂
Bass is generally better controlled.
Tom Waits Closing Time (CD) never sounded so smokey bar real.

[URL= http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/keepitsteel/91AB7FE8-A4B1-4F57-A63F-BE8F71B68148_zpsjn7z4gdl.jp g" target="_blank">http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/keepitsteel/91AB7FE8-A4B1-4F57-A63F-BE8F71B68148_zpsjn7z4gdl.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

You're not going to like me saying so but that is the worst place possible for the TT. Get it away from that speaker on a shelf and get the speakers on stands. It will make more difference than spending any more cash.

I was thinking granite slabs on flimsy bookshelves isn't the best possible upgrade.

I concur. Get a shelf up 🙂

Mine was more extreme, the whole lot was sitting on a sub.

The the low frequency feedback would have caused the cones to fly out of my speakers when I used the TT.

At higher frequencies the same ting will be happening, but just to a lower degree.

Does it ever howl if you turn it up, sited like that?

NB - don't test it!

Does this make three, or four people on this thread with BX2's?

And Regas?

Don't understand -

Heavy granite plinths, but they just sit on flimsy wooden bookshelves - so all your doing is tranfering energy at a different audio range into the system - and the cartridge is so close to the speaker that negative feedback is almost certainly occuring - the car will be influenced by the speaker output.

Put the speakers on stands, with nowt between them, to get some semblance of a sound stage, and ensure the tt and amp are a distance away and out the direct sound path -

Woah tigers!!

Maybe I should have explained better..
Yes my set up is far from ideal (still sounds pretty good to be fair), but I have a wall bracket for the TT, and speaker stands in the pipe line. I only moved in a few weeks ago so haven't had a chance to get it all set up optimally yet.
I won't dare add another pic till I do 🙂

Interestingly, (well, to me anyway) there is still a surprising amount of energy present in the wooden shelves. Upon touch you can still quite easily feel low frequencies doing their thing, although to a lesser extent than before I added the granite. I assumed that with granite that thick that there would more isolation. Surprising how much energy the speakers must be kicking out.
So, speakers will be seperated and on stands. Turntable will be isolated on external wall. Unfortunately I don't have much opportunity to relocate the seperates to a dedicated rack, only onto a narrower shelf. I'm considering having some acrylic (or some other material) shelves custom made to take their place in the modular stand (the shelves are joined to the stand via metal rod type brackets which could fit into similarly cut acrylic).
Thoughts on this idea?

Juju, can you explain what you mean by different energy being transferred please?
I thought the granite would make a decent isolation block and prevent low frequencies travelling down and Into the wood.
Playback was definitely improved so they must be doing something right?..

Once the speakers are on stands say 6 -8 feet apart & a couple of feet from any walls and that TT is on a wall shelf & not that shelving unit you will be a much happier camper. If you can sit against the opposite wall at least 8 feet away that will be good too.
Speakers belong on stands you can't isolate them like that. These would be perfect and the price is cheap http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Partington-ANSA-60-Hi-Fi-Speaker-Stands-/251732373977?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Speaker_Stands_Brackets&hash=item3a9c6b31d9

yes, I spotted those stands a couple days ago and am considering them.

Have heart set on a set of Atacama's in white though - which from a purely aesthetic point of view will blend into the background alot easier.

Building up couage to stick the Rega wall bracket up this afternoon..

Cool. Well, if you think it sounds nice now, it'll sound even better with stands and a rack 🙂

Enjoy!

Sam

[feeling more mellow today]

Truth about 'Hi-Fi', is that unless you have an acoustically optimised listening room, it's not worth spending thousands on equipment, without knowing what works properly within the unique acoustic environment of you home etc. You could spend a lifetime 'auditioning' countless pieces of kit, then maybe find that a £500 set up actually sounds better than stuff costing 10 or more times than that. All the different surfaces, soft furnishings, materials etc will affect the acoustics, so it's about finding the right balance for the kit you have, than throwing money at the 'problem'. You can change how a set up sounds by moving or angling speakers by just a small amount, or moving furniture around, as well as replacing cheap chipboard shelving and the like with heavier mdf stuff. The type of plaster used in your walls has more effect on sound than many equipment 'upgrades' or modifications. Designing and making your own speakers can be far more beneficial than spending thousands on speakers made with totally different sets of acoustic parameters.

I moved house recently. My amp and CD player are c 20 years old, the speakers I bought 2nd hand but have had them 8 years. My hi-fi has never sounded better - so much more detail and seperation - and I've lived in several places with this setup. I've no idea quite what it is but the lounge is a big room hard wooden floors with rugs rather than carpet and the speakers are miles away from any walls. I also took a tip from Rusty Spanner on this forum about putting coins beneath the spikes on the speaker stands to give a solid platform for them to sit on. 8x 5p coins, probably the cheapest upgrade ever 🙂

i read an interesting thread this afternoon on 'proper' use of spikes.
to say its swayed my original understanding is an understatement.

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=165490

sorry if not allowed to link here, please delete if so.

That thread proves its easy to overthink hifi. Spikes just stop wobbling on carpets. Blu tack is much easier on hard floors.

That thread proves its easy to overthink hifi. Spikes just stop wobbling on carpets. Blu tack is much easier on hard floors.

Excellent, I just got my 40p back 🙂

It's mad though, how much better the same set up is in a different room

Truth about 'Hi-Fi', is that unless you have an acoustically optimised listening room, it's not worth spending thousands on equipment, without knowing what works properly within the unique acoustic environment of you home etc. You could spend a lifetime 'auditioning' countless pieces of kit, then maybe find that a £500 set up actually sounds better than stuff costing 10 or more times than that. All the different surfaces, soft furnishings, materials etc will affect the acoustics, so it's about finding the right balance for the kit you have, than throwing money at the 'problem'. You can change how a set up sounds by moving or angling speakers by just a small amount, or moving furniture around, as well as replacing cheap chipboard shelving and the like with heavier mdf stuff. The type of plaster used in your walls has more effect on sound than many equipment 'upgrades' or modifications. Designing and making your own speakers can be far more beneficial than spending thousands on speakers made with totally different sets of acoustic parameters.

This X1000. It's a load of toss. All people do with Hi-Fi is tweak frequency response.

What's worse is that in a blind A/B test people can't tell the difference tween the stuff piled on top of each other on the floor or sitting on a £5000 rack with acoustically damped marble plinths and carbon/brass ultra spikes.

I got a copy of the Nightfly for £3 recently - just had a look and my copy is mastered by Bob Ludwig. Can't remember if holy light came down from heaven when I listened to it or not though. Guess I should have another listen and see

Completely separate earth circuit ! It cost next to nothing to do and it made a huge difference. Expensive cables are just that, expensive and made very little difference.

Set up was LP12 with Pink Triangle power supply,NVA pre amp,two power supplies and two mono blocks amps with those huge NVA speakers on stands made out of girders. LP12 was on a dedicated Target stand rawbolted to an external wall and there was no furniture in the room apart from the shelves the albums were in and a one of those classic Ikea seats and foot stools.

It did not matter how shit my day had been (and some were very long and very shitty)30 to 45 mins in there and I came out calm and happy.

Does this story have a happy ending ? Nope, at my vinyl peak I had circa 380 albums including some very rare ones and as a result of having a "clean" and somewhat analytical system bit by bit I stopped listening to the music and became focused and later obsessed by the quality of the sound engineering and recording and I ended up with a handful of albums I deemed worthy of listening to ---- all very sad 😥

Then the house suffered a serious fire (insurance claim came to £172k)but my hi-fi survived without any real damage, just needed cleaning but the albums didn't do so well and ended up in a skip and as a result the system has now been in the loft for over 10 years.

All people do with Hi-Fi is tweak frequency response.

Here you go fellas, result of the days tinkering. In the limited space in have available I'm happy with the positioning now.
Speakers will be brought forward on stands in the coming weeks, then I'll be pimping the turntable with some of Mr Lims finest.
Stand mounted TT is sounding lovely already. Much more distinct bass notes, and stereo imaging improved. Even the Mrs is enjoying a bit of Robert Plant and sensational shape shifters with me.

[URL= http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/keepitsteel/1987578B-3ADC-4B74-ADE5-15E2FE163C02_zpshpzumxrd.jp g" target="_blank">http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/keepitsteel/1987578B-3ADC-4B74-ADE5-15E2FE163C02_zpshpzumxrd.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]