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when you consider the way China deals with its physically disabled people, and can execute people for tax evasion, its not really a surprise they thought nothing of executing someone with alleged mental issues.
Speaking of which, some of you really do need to see a shrink soon if you support China's execution policies.
But it will all be swept under the carpet soon enough, because we wouldn't want any human rights issues to damage our business interests now do we?
There is not much known about the appeals, mental state or circumstance of his 2 years in Chinese custody.
There is nothing to say the Chinese did not assess his mental health already. One does wonder about his mental health when he thought he could wonder through customs with [b]4Kgs[/b] of heroin packed in his suitcase. Which I'm sure is no small amount.
And incidently, China is not the only country to support the death penalty for drug trafficking.
Although the act of smuggling drugs is not comparable to say murder or rape - the indirect consequences of smuggling them is far greater.
Daily Mail defend the execution...
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2009/12/china-government-case-rights
One thing I've never seen mentioned anywhere.
Was he bringing the drugs into the country or trying to get them out?
Heard his cousin on radio 5 you could hear in her voice she didn't believe what she was saying about his mental health, personally I think execution for a bit of drug trafficing is extreme save that for the murders. Saying that I would rather keep good relations with the chinese, I beleive as a country they want to move forward, they just don't want us, the US, germany etc telling them what to do. I agree with them on that. Anyway tomorrows chip papers. 😕
Whether he is or is nor mentally ill - what he did does not strike me as the most sane act a human has ever done*- the death penalty is almost never defendable and certainly not for drug trafficking.
The usual STW villains on here explaining their usual brand of intolerance/hate lack of compassion
Nice trolling Goan.
*
He then started a prolonged email campaign, sharing his delusions with celebrities and government officials he had never met, firing off endless dispatches typed in an enormous 72-point font. Hundreds of emails sent by Shaikh to the British embassy in Warsaw from 2005 reveal the state of his mind. In the messages, obtained by Reprieve, he claimed to have spoken to the angel Gabriel and explained that he could have foiled the July 7 bombings in 2005, had he only been allowed to hold a press conference. One email appeared to be a letter to Father Christmas.Some messages were copied in to a group of 74 organisations and individuals, including Tony Blair, Sir Paul McCartney, George W Bush and the BBC programme Top Gear.
I suspect many people on the streets don’t have a diagnosis of mental illness either as the mentally ill are not all that great at accessing help for their condition ... they are oblivious to it but does the above really sound sane?
Bloody hell this thread has gone off topic.
He wasn't executed for being bi-polar, schizo, strange, bonkers or whatever.
He was executed for being a drug smuggling scum bag.
Now - my medical knowledge is not all it could be but I am sure that being a drug smuggling scum bag is NOT a symptom of bi-polar disease.
I don't know him. I don't do drugs. He's a crim. So many reasons not to care......
Now - my medical knowledge is not all it could be
You got at least one thing right.
You'd have to be mad to smuggle drugs in china. Not much of a defence though.
He was executed for being a drug smuggling scum bag.
You seem to say that with so much conviction....... it's almost as if executing drug smuggling scum bags is
'the norm'.
And yet, very few countries anywhere in the world execute drug smuggling scum bags.
Maybe [b]you[/b] are, [i]"strange, bonkers or whatever"[/i] ? 💡
I thought this one had stayed pretty damn close to topic tbh. I am surprised.
What buisiness is it of other countries other than Chinas? the guy - mentally ill or not - broke a serious law of theirs.
I`m sure some shrink could have found a mental problem with the guy - merely chancing smuggling drugs into China shows a good sign. But he broke the law - and sadly for him and his family, he paid the price.
It sends out a clear message to other would be smugglers.
Look - I donate money to Amnesty each month but this is where I differ from their beliefs.
Certain crimes don't deserve a second chance:-
Pre-meditated murder
Kiddy fiddling
Rape
Drugs trafficking
They say there's no such thing as a victimless crime, but some crimes are far worse on the victim than others.
4kg of heroin isn't a small quantity for personal consumption. It's designed to make money at the expense of other peoples misery.
If it were up to me (and yes, I know it isn't) there'd be a lot more room in the prisons and the sex offenders register would be an obituary.
sex offenders register would be an obituary.
😆
I donate money to Amnesty each month but this is where I differ from their beliefs.
Are you saying that you donate money to an organisation who's aims you do not fully support ?
Why's that - apart from being maybe "strange" or "bonkers" ? Can't you find any organisations which share your beliefs ?
Ernie (that fastest milkman in the west?) I support most of what Amnesty does - they help politically disadvantaged people for instance.
But, I don't support their stance on the death penalty.
Some crimes deserve it.
Either that or you think that Ian Huntley should be patted on the back and given a nice comfy cell with an x-box. Er, no, he should be baseball batted in the scrote until he's dead.
The list above stands - these are crimes that deserve an end to existence.
stuffing 4kg of heroin into a suitcase is a bit hit or miss isnt it? its either a stupid attempt by a mad person, or someone talked him into taking their bag out them....
so if someone talked a mad/stupid or both, person into carrying a bag, then executing him strikes me as a bit over the top.
although if he was that mad/stupid, travelling about in the places he did I am amazed he lasted a week let alone 5 years...
I don't support their stance on the death penalty.
And yet, you are prepared to give them money to help them fight against something which you are very clearly in support of, and, you have extremely strong views on ? Sounds bonkers to me .........or certainly rather strange 😕
LOL @ "that fastest milkman in the west?" btw ...........very good.
"The amount of heroin he brought into China was 4,030g, enough to cause 26,800 deaths, threatening numerous families," it (the Chinese Embassy) said.
I wonder if the British Government has ever used stats like this one when it comes to drugs? Heroin and crack cocaine is supposed to account for approx 2,500 deaths a year in the UK (source: Independant 2/6/06) so drug suppliers = mass murderers?
Would you rather I didn't give them money Ernie?
I give money to lots of charities - I might not agree with how every penny is spent, it's about recovering some Karma from the majority of what they do.
And my views are not 'extremely strong' - this is pretty much a binary stance, either you support it or you don't.
Me - I support it.
(sorry about the Ernie gag - it really was one of my favourite childhood songs.....)
it's about recovering some Karma from the majority of what they do.
Ah I see............it's all associated with "guilt" 8)
And I'm sorry if I misrepresented your views by describing them as 'extremely strong'. I guess your use of the term [i]"drug smuggling scum bag"[/i] might have contributed to my false conclusion.
Not guilt - I give to charities to keep a healthy balance in my karma bank 🙂
Amnesty are always going to be a difficult one to fully back as they represent the extreme area of most belief systems.
I don't support genocide. I don't support people being killed for political beliefs. Just like I don't support murder, rape, kiddy fiddling or drug trafficking.
Amnesty follow some of the above and I'm happy to help them with that.
4kg of heroin.... If he was stopped and could have taken the whole lot, proving it was for his sole use, I'd happily have let him off....
[i]Now - my medical knowledge is not all it could be but I am sure that being a drug smuggling scum bag is NOT a symptom of bi-polar disease.[/i]
Could very well be. During a manic phase it is certainly possible that someone may display that sort of extreme risk taking behavior. During manic phases sufferers will often make grand plans and take high risks. The idea of smuggling drugs to make a lot of money easily could very easily be seen as a perfectly rationale thing to do by someone in an acute manic phase.
I think you will also find that it is a dis-order rather than a disease. 🙂
I may not be a real doctor......
Dr R S****
proving it was for his sole use, I'd happily have let him off....
You would happily have let him off ?
So your [i]only motivation[/i] is concern for those who are supplied heroin by others ?
Shame you missed this thread : http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/anthrax-laced-heroin
It would have been interesting to see why you feel such strong sympathy towards those who try heroin.
Yes, I'd have let him off for the 5 minutes of life he'd have left.
I actually think that it would be the right way of dealing with him - punishment fitting the crime and all....
Is it wrong that my [i]only motivation[/i] (seems an odd choice of italics, but hey ho) is for the victim of the crime?
Isn't that what the law is for? Protecting innocent victims?
Perhaps I've got it wrong (as well as not being a proper Dr, I'm not a lawyer either).
Is it wrong that my only motivation (seems an odd choice of italics, but hey ho) is for the victim of the crime?
Victim? He was providing customers with a product that they [i]really[/i] wanted. He was killed for violating import restrictions, which is fair enough, but there are no victims here, it's purely an administrative thing.
One does have to ask the question, if the guy was truly bonkers enough for him to not know what was going on at all, do you think some drug traffickers would trust him with £250,000 of heroin and not to f*** it up under pressure in the airport?
Victim? He was providing customers with a product that they really wanted. He was killed for violating import restrictions, which is fair enough, but there are no victims here, it's purely an administrative thing.
LOL!!!!
OK - I'll take drug smugglers off the list.
Lets pretend he was a kiddy fiddler instead (I'm sure the Chinese could have got a confession out of him if we'd asked).
do you think some drug traffickers would trust him with £250,000 of heroin and not to f*** it up under pressure in the airport?
It's only worth that much once it's through customs
Is it wrong that my only motivation (seems an odd choice of italics, but hey ho) is for the victim of the crime?
Not "wrong", just surprised that you wouldn't have had a problem if you had been convinced that it was for his own personal use.
Isn't that what the law is for? Protecting innocent victims?
Heroin users aren't seen as "innocent" in the UK. I suspect that they aren't seen as innocent in China either.
Going slightly off at a tangent here, I find it interesting that the UK Gov't have used the claimed mental illness as a tool against the actions of the Chinese on the basis that not taking such an illness into account is an infringement of his human rights. Is this the same Gov't that are trying to extradite a UK National to the USA despite his medically confirmed Aspergers syndrome?
BTW, based on what I've read and heard (so, no first hand knowledge then) it would appear that his family had little or no contact with him in the preceding few years and that he was quite able to travel the world despite any possible mental illness. It has become a bit of a media circus now, and it looks like I've just jumped on the bandwagon too... 🙄
I don't have much sympathy for drug users - sorry.
Now, I can be further flamed for that by people saying it's not an individuals fault for becoming addicted (although that does sort of support my thoughts on culling drug dealers/smugglers).
For non-addicts if they choose to risk their lives by taking something that they have little control over the purity of, then fair does - but don't expect tears from me if you die.
As I said earlier, whilst I may not be a medical Dr, I do think that 4kg of heroin might constitute an overdose. Drug dealer gone. Drugs gone. Double win really.
naedeyw, I think you have a very good point seems our goverment are guilty of double standards. Perhaps if the uk national Gary McKinnon was of asian appearence they would not extradite him! on the other hand if Mr Shaikh was white would China of executed him.
I would say it would probably be mad to smuggle drugs in China without paying the correct corrupt official.
how anyone can be executed in this day and age for trafficking drugs is absolutely beyond me.Rape, Murder, you could possibly convince me but trafficking drugs? Really?
Erm, this penalty is the norm in many countries. We live in softly softly Britain, where a criminal's human rights come before those of their victim(s), so this seems harsh and extreme.
I can't understand how people can think this crime isn't as serious as rape and murder, because where drugs are concerned, rape and murder is much more likely. Drugs cause all sorts of crime and they benefit nobody but the lowlife making money from them. Severe penalties are therefore entirely appropriate!
If everyone realized the extent of the damage and mysery drugs cause in our own country, i'm sure there would be universal condemnation and support for a very robust response to people pedalling and trafficing drugs. (see the Heroin Laced with Cyanide thread)
I think this was a diplomatic disaster for China, but there won't be any sanctions because big business has too much invested in the far east.
I feel very sorry for the man's family and friends!
"The amount of heroin he brought into China was 4,030g, enough to cause 26,800 deaths........of people willingly abusing hard drugs....."
Like the way the Chinese Government are making out the junkies to be "poor vicitims". Not saying they dont need support, but I cant see a Totalitarian regime offering them much.
Heard it reported on the bbc news that the trial lasted 30mins. Must have really got into the nitty gritty of it in that time!!!
er, he was caught with 4kg of heroin in his suitcase.
Trial:-
Is this your case sir?
Yes.
Is this 4kg of heroin in it?
Yes.
Did you pack this case yourself?
Yes.
Did anyone interfere with it?
No.
30 mins is a long time for just that! He was banged to rights.
Can people stop defending a drug smuggler!!!! If I posted up that I'd be done speeding I'd have been crucified by now!
'allegedly' he didn't pack the case himself - it was given to him to take to china
Hold your horsies their Doc. I am usually branded as one of the daily wail lot and quite often diagree with Mr Lynch and Co. But in this case 30mins doesnt seem like a suitable amount of time for guilt or innocence and all mitigating circumstances to be discussed. This thread a been going on for 8hours and we a bunch of people with nothing vested!
Who's to say it wasn't planted. I dont know, you dont know and now no one will know!
He didn't pack the case himself and was just given it to take to China!!!!!
**** he must have been mad.....
Oh.....
Nurse.......
So who's won then?
😆
That guy who mentioned paying money to Amnesty makes a good point.
A few responses have said that execution for rape or murder may be Ok, however there's a whole world of nastiness involved in the drugs world that results in murder, human trafficking, maybe even rape and other crimes.
So who's won then
Dunno - but one dead per 4kg probably isn't a bad win for the cartels.....
He's dead. No point crying over spilt milk, or one dead drug smuggler.