[Closed] Helping a friend - mental health issues and cannabis?

tbh, it sounds like you've done all you can. He seems to accept the consequences of his actions.

there's lots of people who believe the conspiracy/flat earth without having a specific mental health issue - are you sure it's the smoking or more that he'd just rather believe his world isn't a product of chance, cock-ups and dodgy maths?

there's lots of people who believe the conspiracy/flat earth without having a specific mental health issue - are you sure it's the smoking

I think so, it's not just the conspiracy theories, it is the actual change in his temperament from someone i'd happily have in my house with daughter as she doted on him, to someone i worry about coming to my house now (last time he had a rare few beers, burnt carpet and was really rude to my wife)

It's not the weed. Or rather, it's not just the weed. Conspiracy theories and the associated social platforms that go with them are very compelling to people. It's a phenomena that's spreading caused in part by people's distrust of mainstream media, lack of education (or lack of interest) and the spread of powerful unregulated broadcasting like Youtube.

People get caught in feedback loops of confirmation bias and start to question everything they are presented with. They end go going deeper and deeper down an infinite rabbit hole of information/misinformation and of course, they become part of much larger communities all doing the same thing.

They get a kick out of undermining perceived logic and status quo. A relatively dull or unintelligent person (not referring to your friend) can feel smug and satisfied that they know more than everyone else who isn't woke. I have friends with similar tendencies and similar inclinations and I think the weed aspect is common insofar as people who spend long periods alone in front of the computer smoking weed are going to be more inclined to go down deeper rabbit holes.

As above, really. Plus the 'strong weed' is more likely to encourage apathy on just about any subject you'd care to list. Aside from food, obvs...

I think the issue is that there now seems to be a real change in his temperament and i don't think all the smoking is helping, it's exacerbating it, so it may not be the cause but it he himself admits it's becoming a problem.

Being serious, anything psychological will be altered by cannabis in some way. Negative stuff can become exaggerated as well as positive stuff. If he's feeling angry and pissed off at the world then it'll spill over eventually, drugs or not. Perhaps it's a good thing he's noticed it - admitting an issue is always the first step.

Talk him into getting help - drug counselling agencies deal with this stuff all the time. Try and see if he can get a referral from his GP.

Having extensive personal experience of mental health issues and the complications caused by cannabis use I agree with Teasel.

Only forget telling him to get help - that implies that he's some sort of victim.. He just needs to MTFU and stop smoking dope and do something a bit more constructive.
I found exercise and beer to be the perfect antidote to a fried brain.

If it makes it any easier for him, he can treat it like an actual real life adventure where he gets to experience the world in a completely new and refreshing way, thereby gaining the objectivity required to be a true and effective warrior for the cause of truth and justice 😉

That way he's being a far more active activist than he is at present.
Sitting behind a computer screen being a paranoid android, endlessly recycling and regurgitating the infinite cloud of online speculation isn't actually doing anything to apprehend the bad guys - in fact, it's just keeping him out of the way and occupied which is what [i]they[/i] want 😀

If he still wants to use cannabis products after he's given his mind and body a spring clean then more power to him

Thanks all.

Another thing with conspiracy theories is that they are appealing to life's under-achievers - they might have crap lives in other regards but they have the special knowledge that only a select few have figured out, unlike all those other "sheeple" - now I might be adding together 2 and 2 and coming to 5, but I note that your mate (1) went to university and (2) works as a painter and decorator and I'm wondering if that kind of scenario might make it very attractive to someone who can think that the reason things aren't panning out the way they expected when they were younger is due to a global conspiracy of lizard overlords controlling our very move, rather than him kicking back with the herb every day instead of doing anything more demanding?

yunki - Member

Having extensive personal experience of mental health issues and the complications caused by cannabis use I agree with Teasel.

... He just needs to MTFU

Everyone is different, so whilst you're carefully considered expert advice of "just MTFU" might work for you it may not work for the chap in question. It certainly wouldn't work for friends of mine who have similar problems. There are several problems here, the weed, the conspiracy theories, the drink and social circumstances that these theories come out in, and his alienation. No one thing is going to fix all the other things but if you could debate him on say, flat earth in the cold sober light of day without other people around, would he still get aggressive?

Sounds to me that it's not weed or conspiracy theories that are making him aggressive, rather late night group mockery of his new belief system. Remember he has hundreds, if not thousands of friends online, all buying into it, with access to very very persuasive arguments to undermine or counter all you "science" and "evidence".

i found exercise and beer to be the perfect antidote to a fried brain.

Brilliant, get him off the pacifiers and on to something a bit more hardcore, like booze. That'll sort him.

Your concern for him is admirable, although he's clearly making his own bed so it's up to him to accept any advice. I'd possibly lay off the weed conspiracy theory, it's also possible that he's just suffering from a mental illness/chemical imbalance.
Remind him, as a friend, of your concern and reassure him that you're there for him if he decides to investigate his behaviour.

so whilst you're carefully considered expert advice of "just MTFU" might work for you it may not work for the chap in question

ooooooh... put your claws away

If the bloke thinks that he's some kind of a revolutionary soldier leading humanity into the light from their place of enslavement, then perhaps an appeal to his masculinity is exactly what is required.

I would imagine debating the finer points of his belief system wouldn't end well..
Look at the way most debates end on here 😯

Brilliant, get him off the pacifiers and on to something a bit more hardcore, like booze.

Quitting cannabis and starting to deal with psychosis is horrendously stressful and the anxiety involved can be overwhelming - booze is actually a very effective medication for acute anxiety in the short term.

What chills my anxiety is a nice fat blunt. Do you prescribe (thanks) weed to alcoholics?

Sounds to me that it's not weed or conspiracy theories that are making him aggressive, rather late night group mockery of his new belief system. Remember he has hundreds, if not thousands of friends online, all buying into it, with access to very very persuasive arguments to undermine or counter all you "science" and "evidence".

It's not "late night mockery", i went out of my way to buy the tickets to see leftfield and to see the Specials previously to invite him, again we had a few beers (4-5 over a 8 hour period) as i know that it is rare that he has a beer these days. I certainly didn't mock him, i tried to have a reasoned argument with him, on this last occasion, why i felt the earth was round, everything from how you measure mountain heights at Trig point to personally having been high enough when having out of plane on HALO jumps to have seen it myself, but this then led on to ISS Space Station and moon landings all being bogus.

I have done what i can to include him when old uni mates have met up, but he seems intent to burn bridges with us and with his own older friends from home, but i know deep down he's a nice guy

What chills my anxiety is a nice fat blunt. Do you [s]diagnose[/s] prescribe weed to alcoholics?

yeah, obviously.

It's about changing thought patterns and breaking cycles and habits. It's about changing perspective, it's about feeding the needy inner child while the body learns to produce it's own feel-good chemicals through exercise and self fulfillment.
This stuff isn't ****ing rocket science, it's just common sense.
It becomes much more complicated if you're dealing with full spectrum substance abuse or crushing self defeat, but it doesn't sound like that's the case with the guy in question.

Not sure if serious.

Get him one of these car stickers :

[img] [/img]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01DM4W6UM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I bought one recently...

It's about changing thought patterns and breaking cycles and habits. It's about changing perspective, it's about feeding the needy inner child while the body learns to produce it's own feel-good chemicals through exercise and self fulfillment.
This stuff isn't **** rocket science.

I think you are correct in many ways, kind of why i try to take him away from day to day life and to a gig or something, something "real" that isn't the internet rubbish. We've gone and walked Snowdon Horseshoe and Peaks, which he says he has a great time doing, and he is cool whilst doing it, but we finish, he starts smoking and then it is all downhill again

Totally serious slimjim78

Are you sure that you're not due a bit of a spring clean yourself? Your thinking seems to be a bit muddy (that was tongue in cheek if it helps)

Good luck with it all scud - sorting your life out is a really long and arduous quest and not everyone is cut out for it.
It may help to advise him that if he must smoke weed, then perhaps he should try to take some tips from the Rastafarian example and use it only as a sacrament, whilst taking great care to eat as much fresh food as possible. That might just help to sow a few seeds of wellness.

I've seen this happen with a few people.

One is now a nazi sympathiser and the other thinks Hilary is a lizard and Trump is the reincarnation of Jesus.

Both were really nice people, who over time became more and more aggressive and extreme. Weed, plus conspiracy sites is a bad combination for some people.

As this guy is an old mate, I think you need to have a serious chat with him and tell him some things he might not like to hear. If he cannot take it, then at least you have said your bit and tried to help.

Sadly there is not a lot you can do to help people in this situation. You just have to say your bit and leave them to it, whilst leaving a door open so they can reach out to you if they decide to do so.

Pot heads can be some of the most defensive people on the planet. They think that ganja is fine as it's 'natural' and non addictive. I speak from experience of being stoned every day for 7 years.

Can't say my consumption of weed has any bearing on my ability to ignore daft conspiracy theories. Then again, I always deliberately go in cycles. With any drug, since i was a teenager, I've always lived by the rule bring yourself back in to equlibrium, suffer the comedown. (With harder drugs that means after a night out, sober up. With weed, means stopping it after a certain period, I go in cycles, month on it, few months off.)

Yunki's spring cleaning idea is probably a good idea, not least the fact it'll save him a few quid, as weed stops working after being stoned properly for a month or 2(least the perceived personal effect, you'll still looked stoned to other people). But it'll clear his mind and bring him back to reality. He might have bother coming off it, some people do. Most I get it slightly irritated for a day or too. A night on the bevvy next day gets completely rid of that though. (I think it's a product of a hangover being 1000 times worse, so takes precedent in the psyche.)

scud

It's not "late night mockery", i went out of my way to buy the tickets to see leftfield and to see the Specials previously to invite him, again we had a few beers (4-5 over a 8 hour period) as i know that it is rare that he has a beer these days. I certainly didn't mock him, i tried to have a reasoned argument with him, on this last occasion, why i felt the earth was round, everything from how you measure mountain heights at Trig point to personally having been high enough when having out of plane on HALO jumps to have seen it myself, but this then led on to ISS Space Station and moon landings all being bogus.

Well I'm sure that we both agree that his ideas deserve to be derided, I meant from his perspective he's outnumbered by a group of people who have absolutely no respect for his views*.

*His views deserve absolutely no respect, but he's a friend.

Tell him about the ISS and how it's continually falling to earth but never making it because the earth is continually falling away from it. Put simply, obviously.

Hopefully that'll dispel the flat earth bit.

Tell him about the ISS and how it's continually falling to earth but never making it because the earth is continually falling away from it. Put simply, obviously.

Hopefully that'll dispel the flat earth bit.

Nope, ISS is a myth, doesn't exist, nor does moon landings, world is run by a giant corporation, Teresa May is actually a man etc, etc. At first i wanted to laugh when he started coming out with this stuff, but when he said it with such conviction, i just worry for him.

Very little you can do but continue to be his friend and continue to invite him to join you in things.

sounds like his grip on reality is slipping. Its very hard to unpick at what point cannabis is the symptom, the trigger or the cause of MH difficulties

I don't think we can discount the possibility that your mate may well just be an idiot...

^^^ This so much.
I know a couple of people, including a vegan teetotaler, non smoker, never taken drugs type who seems to share Scud's mates theories and will deliver fervent lectures to all who will listen to them, along with many who try not too.

I blame the rye grass..

He was never like it for the first 16-17 years of knowing him, he was a good bloke (and can still be), its just the last few years. Trouble is he is running out of friends when he probably needs them most, but he really is doing his best to alienate everyone.

As other have said, he may just have a new social influence online which is swaying or reinforcing his beliefs/delusions.

Give him an ultimatum.

Go and see him at a time when you expect him to be straight, tell him he's acting like a dick, explain why, alienating friends, crack pot flat earth stuff, etc.

Offer to help if he still refuses, walk away. Life's too short.

I was best mates with a guy for years, known each other since we were 5.

I could only take so much of his racist bullshit, which was learned and wasn't always there.

I haven't spoken to him in 12 years for that very reason. Some people just change. There becomes a limit and you come to the conclusion that some people just can't be reasoned with.

I could only take so much of his racist bullshit, which was learned and wasn't always there

Can relate to that, had to "unfriend" the whole of the Essex contingent of my family for bloody BNP/Britain First etc posts

Actually, just been for a browse of some of the flat Earth 'evidence' being presented, expecting nutters yelling at each other about lizards, but was surprised to find some very well sculpted arguments with an awful lot of (terrible) proof.
And, of course, some nutters yelling about lizards.

But if you had no scientific knowledge and a good hint of gullibility, or mental health issues, I could almost understand why people could be taken in by this and other conspiracy theories.

Some people just want to believe.

As a starter, get him off the skunk and onto a weed strain with a higher CBD/THC ratio (i.e. a smaller propotion of THC, higher proportion of CBD). There are a few strains out there that fit the bill and will still get him stoned, but without the huge brain zap that is skunk.

This will put him in a better frame to move onto the next step, whatever that may be.