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[Closed] Help me explain why " all lives matter" is not the same as BLM

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What makes you think I am angry, white or privileged?

I wonder...


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 10:10 am
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A timely news story, in light of yesterday's discussion.

Met police 4 times more likely to use force on black people


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 10:10 am
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I wonder…

Could it be racial stereotyping?


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 10:11 am
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This is what is wrong in the world today. Anyone that doesn’t agree gets shut down

Are you being shut down? Seems to me that you're perfectly able to say what you want on the subject, no?


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 10:27 am
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Are you being shut down? Seems to me that you’re perfectly able to say what you want on the subject, no?

No I am not being shut down. I was just commenting on the post by Kerley that states that no-one should be allowed to question the motives or operation of any organization that have an anti racist agenda or they are themselves a racist. That is a VERY dangerous opinion and one that I will raise a voice against.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 10:36 am
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I was just commenting on the post by Kerley that states that no-one should be allowed to question

ISWYDT

Person 1: Anyone that questions/doesn’t understand the intent of BLM and comes up with stupid arguments against it is clearly part of the problem. They are ignorant at best and racist at worst.
Person 2: You just said I shouldn’t be allowed to question their motives
Person 1: No I said stupid arguments are probably either ignorant or rwcist
Person 2: Now you’re cancelling me!
Person 1: No, you’re cancelling ME!
Person 2: But that‘s just shutting people down
Person 1: No, YOU’RE shutting people up. Down, up? Anyway racism is so ingrained that you don’t even see when you’re doing it!
Person 2: Now you’re just trying to shut down people you don’t agree with by calling them names. That’s The Left. The Left are the real fascists with their feminazi soyboy Muslim-terrorist apologist, gulag-worshipping post-Modern Marxist communist cancel culture. Amirite? Prove me wrong you can’t.
Person 1: No, YOU’RE trying to shut down people you don’t agree with by calling them names
Person 2: No you.
Person 1: Your mom
Person 2: My face
Person 1: That doesn’t even make sense
Person 2: Your face doesn’t even make sense
Person 1: ...”

ad-infinatum

Trump wins. Brexit wins. Cancel-culture backfired, libcucks! YOOESSAY! And now here’s a word from our sponsor...


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 10:41 am
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You sound quite angry...

Could it be racial stereotyping?

It probably feels that way to you.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 10:41 am
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Well, if anyone has any non-racist objections to BLM, I for one am all ears. 🙂


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 10:42 am
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Well, if anyone has any non-racist objections to BLM,

Well, there’s the Marxism thing isn’t there? 😀


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 10:43 am
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Ah, yes - bloody left-wingers, with their anti-capitalist "equality for all" nonsense! *shakes angry fist* 🙂


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 10:51 am
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one should be allowed to question the motives or operation of any organization that have an anti racist agenda or they are themselves a racist

So, you don’t like people questioning the motives of people questioning the motives of other people? Right, got it.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 11:14 am
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I was just commenting on the post by Kerley that states that no-one should be allowed to question the motives or operation of any organization that have an anti racist agenda or they are themselves a racist. That is a VERY dangerous opinion and one that I will raise a voice against.

Maybe read what I actually said. It was about the intent/need for the movement and people being ignorant to the intent/need for such a movement.
I will put you in the ignorant category as assuming you are not against the intent of equality for black people.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 11:22 am
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It probably feels that way to you.

Well, you did read one post from someone on the internet, and based on the view point automatically assumed they were an angry privileged white person.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 11:22 am
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No I am not being shut down. I was just commenting on the post by Kerley that states that no-one should be allowed to question the motives or operation of any organization that have an anti racist agenda or they are themselves a racist. That is a VERY dangerous opinion and one that I will raise a voice against.

No.... no he didn’t. Here you go, I’ve bolded the important bits:

kerley
Member

Anyone that questions/doesn’t understand the intent of BLM and comes up will stupid arguments against it is clearly part of the problem. They are ignorant at best and racist at worst.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 11:27 am
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No…. no he didn’t. Here you go, I’ve bolded the important bits:

So if I quote the interview where one of the founders of BLM calls herself and one of the other founders "trained Marxists" am I not understanding their intent or am I making a stupid argument?

Im interested to know. I don't have a particular problem with BLM for what its worth, but what I am for is open debate and freedom of expression.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 11:57 am
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Well, you did read one post from someone on the internet, and based on the view point automatically assumed they were an angry privileged white person.

Not quite true. I think he said entitled as well.

In all of this, can anyone point me to a centralised point for the BLM movement? Clearly there is a website, but this is clearly US focussed and therefore not controlling activism in Europe. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought this was a much more organic thing and thus it's not really possible to attribute narrow viewpoints to the whole thing. For me, BLM means what it says - but not defining black lives by their ending, defining life as the sum of a persons experience. And black just means not white in terms of what I should be learning from the movement.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 12:11 pm
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So if I quote the interview where one of the founders of BLM calls herself and one of the other founders “trained Marxists” am I not understanding their intent or am I making a stupid argument?

Egh?

I’d probably ask what your point was.

There are tens/hundreds of thousands of people literally screaming and shouting about what the intent of the protest is, months of news coverage and interviews.
I think that’s why claiming not to understand/questioning the intent of the movement comes across as a bit disingenuous.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 12:21 pm
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Egh?
I’d probably ask what your point was.
There are tens/hundreds of thousands of people literally screaming and shouting about what the intent of the protest is, months of news coverage and interviews.
I think that’s why claiming not to understand/questioning the intent of the movement comes across as a bit disingenuous.

My point is the intent on the surface is well known. But why should we just accept BLM on face value, why is digging a little deeper a "bad" or "racist" thing to do? Why is it wrong to question an organisation like this?

Edit - This is not just a group of random folks in the streets shouting slogans. We are talking about a very organised, politicised and funded organization with global clout. They should absolutely be scrutinised.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 12:31 pm
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Feel free to do so - ask yourself why you want to.

Edit: Are they? Cool, I thought it was more of an organic, populist movement, but let us know what you find.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 12:34 pm
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Are they? Cool, I thought it was more of an organic, populist movement, but let us know what you find.

There's plenty of content to go at, but why don't you start here. Particulary the section on funding 😉

https://www.influencewatch.org/movement/black-lives-matter/


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 12:48 pm
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I was just commenting on the post by Kerley that states that no-one should be allowed to question the motives or operation of any organization

But you haven't asked question about BLM, all you've argued is that "no one is allowed to argue with them" which clearly isn't the case. What questions do you want to ask about BLM as an organisation?


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 12:50 pm
 grum
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Influence Watch - funded by oil companies and right wing billionaires. Quite critical of BLM, who'd have thunk it.

So what if they are radical, being nicey nicey has got then nowhere. And yes capitalism is part of the problem.

I don't see a problem in criticising aspects of BLM, but when you are focussing solely on that and don't seem remotely interested in any of the issues raised by them, don't be surprised if people wonder what your agenda is.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 1:01 pm
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"Influence Watch is owned by the Capital Research Center, which in turn is funded through donations. Some of their top donors are Exxon-Mobil, Koch Industries, and the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation... The common theme among all donors is conservative political affiliation and ties to the fossil fuel industry."

Cool, they'll be just the people I'll trust.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 1:05 pm
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I don’t see a problem in criticising aspects of BLM, but when you are focussing solely on that and don’t seem remotely interested in any of the issues raised by them, don’t be surprised if people wonder what your agenda is.

Yeah, I get that. But my point in this whole thing was about freedom to express ones own opinions and not get shouted down by those whose have a different opinion. That's all. I didn't actually mention BLM.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 1:16 pm
 DezB
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Ooh, O see this has moved on nicely since page 1. Who's been outed as the biggest racist then?

Might be a good programme for TJ's mum to watch. Nice that she wants to understand, cos there's no saving my mum!
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-talk


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 1:18 pm
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Spoiler: "ignorant" is not necessarily pejorative.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 1:34 pm
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Spoiler: “ignorant” is not necessarily pejorative.

So it can be


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 1:48 pm
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Ooh, O see this has moved on nicely since page 1. Who’s been outed as the biggest racist then?

it’s actually all quite consistent with the OP.

We’re moved on to conspiracy theories as a way to de-legitimise their stated goals


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 1:51 pm
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RichPenny you are right BLM is an organic movement and there's no centralised organisation, it's also a hashtag and a slogan which a couple of groups have adopted as their name. For example I'm a member of the Anti-Racist Educator collective and we use the BLM hashtag for promotion, some are also members of other groups such as those with an interest in refugees or modern slavery. Occasionally different groups may organise an event or protest which come under the same banner.

Trailwagger, do you know where I can apply for this funding? I need around £100k for a judicial review because you can't get legal aid for human rights or public law cases. George Soros?
Marxism? Anti-racists come from all sorts of backgrounds, cultures, religion and political beliefs, I even found one in the Tories.
I'm afraid you're being mislead by information which supports the far right and are using the free speech and cancel culture arguments to shirk responsibility for promoting discrimination. Discussion is welcome but the free speech argument is often used to promote formed bigoted opinions.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 1:56 pm
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So it can be

If the cap fits, then it can be, yes.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 2:17 pm
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Trailwagger, do you know where I can apply for this funding?

By the looks of it you start a GoFundMe page. BLMUK have raised over £1m this way.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 2:20 pm
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The Marxism thing is the only argument that the right wing has got. It's the line trotted out by the Telegraph or the Spectator over the last few months and what you'll hear if you listen to the Douglass Murray's, David Starkeys and Neil Oliver's of this world.

Going back to the Edward Coulston event, all the aforementioned commentators predicted that an orgy of random statue toppling was about to commence across the country, we were witnessing the seeds of a Chinese cultural revolution led by violent Marxists. The only people that listened to them were a bunch of football hooligans who went out to drunkenly defend statues from pigeons. The rest of us knew it was nonsense. Didn't happen, wasnt going to happen.

BLM was started by a group of LGBT Black Women from an Artists community. Were some of them Marxists? Quite possibly, Just like some on here on the STW forum. The vast majority supporting BLM are not Marxists, that's just a fact ( though an inconvenient one for their opponents). BLM is a cultural movement not a political one, it achieves its aims by cultural means, using media, sport and business to achieve that which politicians have failed to deliver.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 2:20 pm
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So it can be

I suppose it can. Like, You can be ignorant of something because you simply don't know it or understand it, that's not your fault. There's plenty of things I'm ignorant of - there's a thread elsewhere about Wiley and I've never heard of him, it took me several posts to realise they weren't talking about Jo.

But when presented with facts or updated information you double down rather than listening then that's being wilfully ignorant and, well, that would be a rather silly thing to do wouldn't it.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 2:40 pm
 mehr
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A thread started by someone who singlehandedly outwitted the NHS's finest brains, proclaiming he doesn't understand BLM descends into STWs usual shit show

Maybe it would be helpful if STW said what it meant to them, or would that drive traffic away


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 6:54 pm
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mehr - and a post by someone who does not read the OP?

Its not I don't understand ( I do), I was having difficulty explaining the differnce clearly and concisely to my mother. Clear and concise explanations I got within a couple of dozen posts. Explanation now given to my mother.

The shitshow has been entertaining tho


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 6:59 pm
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Because that isn’t particularly what the movement is about? It’s about addressing systemic racism directed towards black people

So you are agreeing that BLM is a racist organisation because it is only interested in the plight of one group in society based solely on the colour of their skin. If you read the blmuk website it is all about how blacks people should get preferential treatment because of the colour of their skin.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 7:01 pm
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Chrismac, you're clearly trolling or are incredibly misinformed because this is what it says on their website.

"We stand in solidarity with the common people demanding racial equality, social and criminal justice, human rights operating as a non-partisan, not a member of or connected with a group or political party, non-violence, unifying arm of the Black Lives Matter Movement in Britain, United Kingdom"

https://www.blacklivesmatter.uk/


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 7:19 pm
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Faerie - I suspect he is one of those people that sees removal of privilege as discrimination


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 7:36 pm
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If you read the blmuk website it is all about how blacks people should get preferential treatment because of the colour of their skin.

I'd love to see you quote the passage from their website that supports your claim.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 7:37 pm
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Just to go back to the original point for a mo if I may?

Nice email back from my mother - those cartoons and the explanations from here means she got it.

Thanks folk.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 7:42 pm
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I like a story with a happy ending. 🙂


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 7:45 pm
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means she got it.

cool, you did say she was smart; after all.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 7:47 pm
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TJ, result, I'm glad there was a positive outcome, odd how its spiralled away from the OP when there is the other thread where these trolls have already been dealt with...


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 7:50 pm
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I like any stories involving mums and happy endings.


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 7:59 pm
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you did say she was smart

What happened to TeeJ then?


 
Posted : 31/07/2020 8:00 pm
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