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Business takes off but local manufacturer cannot meet demand created by said blokes.
Pretty sure this bit was disputed by the factory owner in his "open letter" ?
I have a pair of Trousers from the kickstarter. They have seen me through rain, wind, snow and sun. They have cycled, climbed, gardened, diy'd, and been to posh meetings. They are magnificent Trousers, the best I've ever had. They are the only Trousers I have ever given thought to or felt moved to comment on. Thank you Ed and Brant for having the balls and vision to do this.
And the people that actually made them?
@mitsumo - why not buy your boots direct from the manufacturer, William Lennon? Cut out the middle man - as advocated by one of the founders in an earlier life before he reinvented himself.
The choice of company name and promotion of heritage/provenance never rang true.
Saving 'trousertown' with a narrow range of niche products and a self-limiting customer base never struck me as a long-term success.
Promoting a hand made product while striving for volume will lead to either quality compromises or delivery failures.
One of the self-styled 'trousermen' has a track record of starting something interesting but lacking the long term interest/commitment to make it into a long term success; ah well, I'm bored so I'll move onto something else - ad nauseam.
@rorschach - it wasn't a marketing strategy for a local manufacturing firm. It's a chancer and his mate spinning a yarn about 'local' to make £ by flogging a concept - or conceit- with no evident long-term plan.
Did they use kickstarter because they could not develop a convincing business plan to take to a bank?
A bank would ask searching questions covering funding, investors, market, competitive analysis (swot etc), manufacturing, usp, pricing & marketing strategies, branding & brand extension.....for starters.
None of that happens with kickstarter.
If you want 'proper' trousers, go to a 'proper' tailor.
I have a pair of Trousers from the kickstarter. They have seen me through rain, wind, snow and sun. They have cycled, climbed, gardened, diy'd, and been to posh meetings. They are magnificent Trousers, the best I've ever had. They are the only Trousers I have ever given thought to or felt moved to comment on. Thank you Ed and Brant for having the balls and vision to do this.
This is comedy gold.
It was meant to be funny though, right?
scandal42 - MemberI have a pair of Trousers from the kickstarter. They have seen me through rain, wind, snow and sun. They have cycled, climbed, gardened, diy'd, and been to posh meetings. They are magnificent Trousers, the best I've ever had. They are the only Trousers I have ever given thought to or felt moved to comment on. Thank you Ed and Brant for having the balls and vision to do this.
This is comedy gold.
It was meant to be funny though, right?
Sadly I think the chap is earnest. Deluded and ready to drink the cool aid again. 😀
In other news.
The Manchester Evening News isn’t printed in Manchester.
Walkers Crisps are delivered in lorries.
Foxes Glacier Mints do not contain any bits of fox or glacier.
Ben and Jerry don’t make ice cream.
Frankie & Benny aren’t actually real people.
And in other news Cathedral City Cheddar isn't made in Cheddar, nor is it made in a city, with or without a cathedral!
(Of the two nearest cities, only one has a cathedral anyway).
However, the brands original owners were based in Wells, which does.
Thus supplying an exact example of the same situation, only the cheese is now listed as 10th most trusted British brand, giving HebTroCo something to aspire to.
you see cathedral city conjures up an image of an entire city made of cathedrals.....im sad to find the place does not exist and should not be telling the world they make cheddar
only the cheese is now listed as 10th most trusted British brand, giving HebTroCo something to aspire
There is plenty of cheese in a pair of of hebtroco's don't you worry
Agree that Sturmeyarcher appears deluded.
Neither moleskin nor cords would have been acceptable in any 'posh meeting' I've ever attended; that may say more about me than anything else.
Is sturmey a current or past PX employee???
They have cycled, climbed, gardened, diy'd, and been to posh meetings.
Surely not in that order?
The board members wouldn't allow such outdoor exposure, its a sign of a worker.
Different trousers per activity I'd guess.
Cougar and Drac, too.Still, you look after your mates, don't you?
I don't know if that's serious or a troll.
1) I've made a handful of comments on a 20+ page thread. That's hardly "so active on a thread."
2) They aren't "my mates," I don't know the first thing about either Brant or Ed or their company. My comments on the thread previously were to try to discourage a smear campaign based purely on conjecture, as I would for anyone on STW because it's the right thing to do.
3) There hasn't been any official STW mandate on anything to do with this. If anything I've already spoken out of turn and said more than I should.
4) I'm frankly ****ing offended that a long-serving user would genuinely think that I'd be biased in such a manner, and I don't offend easily. If I was being coerced into toeing a corporate line then I'd walk away from the forum. That's a shitty accusation IMHO. From Day One as a moderator I've strived for transparency.
And when I say "offended," what I mean is "royally ****ing pissed off."
Cougar; pages 1 - 14 were posted upto 5 months ago.
The current frothy activity started 6 days ago and in the 6 pages since then you have been more active than usual which means......nothing; just saying.
People are crackers.
Go read ethical consumer and buy something with a way more questionable provenance.
The pedantry on here can be solved by not buying or buying the product.
I think cougar protests too much.
He's hiding something!
In his trousers?He's hiding something!
And wait until Brussels hears about this, we won't be able to call them trousers unless they are from Hebden
https://www.retaildetail.eu/en/news/food/eu-bans-soy-milk-and-tofu-butter
dazh - Member
This has rapidly become the silliest thread on here. Who knew that the manufacture and sale of moleskin trousers could be so polarising and arouse such passions?
You haven't been around here long have you? The only thing that could make this more of a STW slag-fest would be if Brant and Ed had parked their company van outside someone's house and gone on holiday to Bognor for a month. Or if they'd planted giant dahlias along their property boundary before having an affair with someone called Louise.
He's hiding something!
In his trousers?
I say Brant and Ed slipped him a bung, probably a business of pedigree Yorkshire ferrets in this case.
Cougar - I jest.
In defence of the mods, I'm seeing a lot of people giving HebTroCo a good slagging and not getting modded (myself included). I don't know what the libellous comments refer to but I have noticed a lack of links to Richard Pickles of Shorties facebook page where his open letter was published. There are clearly two sides to this story and I don't think it's unfair to suggest they should be given equal airtime given that they are equally as liable to libel given the accusations each side is making (in fact I'd say HebTroCo is worse as it implies bad workmanship as opposed to just bad business practice).
One of those on one side you have the Brant fan boys and those who have known him for decades to whom he can do no wrong/ they look out for him/they defend a mate.
on the other side those who like people who stick to their word and are not just about social media hype/ marketing and selling.
Guess which one I am 😛
Clearly they made a big thing about trouser town, clearly they have not lived up to that "aspiration"
Clearly we are free to judge them on this.
we all do this [ and i dont like dissing folk for looking after their mates tbh as we all do this]...you would know this if you had any 😉Still, you look after your mates, don't you?
To be fair, Junky. There are some of us in the middle throwing poo at both sides.
Seems sad that they had a fallout with their local supplier that couldn't be resolved privately and amicably.
But look on the bright side, they haven't gone full vulpine.
Pedant alert Cougar, it's striven not strived.
I don't think I've ever seen Mark so active on a thread.
Really?
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/marks-top-secret-bike-trip?view=all
[quote=Jamie ]To be fair, Junky. There are some of us in the middle throwing poo at both sides.
I salute your neutrality if not your aim 😉
For me there are two issues in Trousergate.
Firstly saving Trousertown. I liked it. Never going to make me part with $150 for a pair of jeans, but I liked the idea of keeping it local, keeping the tradition going. Do you know, I think if it were just going to be pocket money. A little part time enterprise, it still would be. (Opinion not fact for the litigious)
Secondly is social media. Live by the sword, die by the sword sums up my opinion.
Again, I think it's jealousy on here, 2 blokes making a go of a new business, loving what they're doing. Penned in 9-5ers stuck in a rut don't like it, start getting on their high horses because they're trapped in a vicious circle and want anyone who dares to buck the norm fail. Jealous.
Nice bit of psychoanalysis but way off the market.
I've dipped in and out of this thread but not really kept up. Anyone fancy providing a Twitter style summary?
Critically, I need to know if I should be angry with anyone and also if I should be buying HeTroCo trousers or not.
summary?
Brant & Eds ethos has been a little slack, which has struck a cord or two on here.
I've never understood thisLive by the sword, die by the sword
If your the guy slagging folks off and it comes back to bite you then sure
But this falls more into
Folks who are incensed on others behalf even though they don't have a dog in the race.
This is almost as good as the keyrings thread
Dunno about that, but people are definitely making mountains out of something.A mention of a mole would have got full marks
This is almost as good as the keyrings thread
They're now selling keyrings for £150 as well?
Cougar - Moderator
And when I say "offended," what I mean is "royally **** pissed off."
You're not kidding, I've just read what you wrote in the Premier Invite only forum.... 😯
As someone who lives up the valley in Todmorden, I never cease to be amazed at the potential for trouble-causing that anything to do with Hebden Bridge posesses. If I were a budding entrepreneur or business type, I'd be steering well clear of anything to with the place in my brand/marketing.
Cougar; pages 1 - 14 were posted upto 5 months ago.
The current frothy activity started 6 days ago and in the 6 pages since then you have been more active than usual which means......nothing; just saying.
It's simple. Cougar became active on the thread as did myself as this thread came back to life again after we deleted another Trousergate thread due to some very bold well lies by some members. These lies were potentially libellous so the thread was pulled to avoid harm to STW not Hebtroco. When this thread sprung to life Cougar, myself and other mods monitored it and try to stop people from posting more libellous comments. Mark posts a few times too as we occasionally asked him for advice as well as he was trying to monitor too. As Mark was at Mayhem it made it very difficult for him so the mods had to be more active. Add to that you're a pretty low activist user and only posted on a few threads in the last week or so your perception is screwed.
Do I know Brant and Ed? Yes I do. Well enough to meet up for them for a coffee and beer if I was down that way as I've socialised and friends with a group of people they socialise and are friendly with too for 15 years now. It was difficult for me not to post too much as Brant messaged me a few times with what was actually going on.
So are we active on this thread to look after mates? Well yes but STW mates not Hebtroco.
My 2p
1) I'm surprised the thread is still open - if I was a mod/Mark I'd have shut discussion of hebtroco down.
2) Moderators on here try their best to be, errm, moderate. I know none of them (that I know of) but they've always struck me as trying to do the best for the forum as a whole rather than toeing soem corporate line laid down by Mark.
3) As Drac said - moderators being active on a heavily moderated thread is hardly a surprise. If they weren't posting but just removing posts people would wonder what was going on and criticise them for that.
Looking at this from another angle, if you setup a company with a single supplier, but as a result of growth in sales/product range that supplier is no longer appropriate, what do you do? Sounds like most of the complainants here expect HebTroCo to just forget about growth and new products, and just subsidise their original supplier?
Add to that you're a pretty low activist user and only posted on a few threads in the last week or so your perception is screwed.
That's a bit low, and a few times now I've seen references to members who don't post all that often as if them, their opinions and posts ain't worth much.
If you want to make this forum exclusive for the handful of 'regulars' who seem to post something every 5mins then go ahead, just make it clear so the rest of us know.
I doubt a mate would sue a mate so the chances of Brant/Ed actually suing Mark, over someones elses comments, is pretty low.These lies were potentially libellous so the thread was pulled to avoid harm to STW not Hebtroco
When someone says something on twitter or FB they get personally sued so what is the difference with STW ? this is a genuine question btw as i do not know nor understand the legal distinction here though its an area I dont know very much about so happy to be educated by the facts.
I also agree the mods are going to get bashed whatever happens and i am not that interested in that - FWIW i dont think its inherently wrong to defend mates and we all do it [ or we should].
Sounds like most of the complainants here expect HebTroCo to just forget about growth and new products, and just subsidise their original supplier?
Did they not set up the company to save trousertown?
Looking at this from another angle, if you setup a company with a single supplier, but as a result of growth in sales/product range that supplier is no longer appropriate, what do you do? Sounds like most of the complainants here expect HebTroCo to just forget about growth and new products, and just subsidise their original supplier?
<ethical mode on> given the supplier was instrumental in providing the expertise needed to develop the product / business in the first place, my first instinct would be to pay it back by working with them to enable them to invest sufficiently so they expand capacity and capability to be able to do it.
But there are many reasons why that may not work - capacity and capability can't be turned off and on with a switch, the cash flow and profit margins needed to sustain reinvestment are different, and you could have a situation where if the bottom falls out of the market the supplier now has a bigger problem because they now have a factory twice the size to try and fill.
And who knows how / if those discussions went between the supplier and Hebtroco, all we have are the two alternative and inevitably biased views.
- if I was a mod/Mark I'd have shut discussion of hebtroco down.
Why?