Difficult one, this.
On the one hand, he's an easy target. Eccentric old goat, liked the company of children, must be a nonce. See also, Michael Jackson. The fact that [i]no-one[/i] came out to 'tell their story' till after his death rings massive alarm bells for me. I think we can dismiss 'there were always stories' for reasons I've just mentioned; of course there's stories, he's the sort of character that attracts them, and nothing breeds rumours like other rumours.
However, on the other hand, if the equine-dentured That's Life presenter is to be believed, there are a number of corroborating stories from what are presumably unrelated people. In comparison to MJ, there's also little motive that I can see for unfounded character assassination other than five minutes of fame; apart from selling stories to the gutter press, there isn't a huge vein of gold to be tapped like there was in the MJ case. So it's harder to see what people would hope to gain by making up stories now.
So I think I'm undecided on this one. I think it's a massive shame that this is all coming out now after his death, where a) he can't defend himself and b) he can't stand trial if it turns out that he was guilty. That doesn't sit well with me at all.
Bit harsh to compare him with MJ at this stage I reckon, as MJ was clearly a child abuser. It's nowhere near that certain with old Jimmy yet.
[i]If only there had been any other cases exposed recently of trial by media getting the facts wrong? Maybe one where people had unfounded, unproven accusations made against them then splashed all over the popular media, clearly stating it as THE TRUTH[/i]
Or to put it differently
If only there had been other cases exposed recently where victims' stories had been steadfastly ignored for decades, denying them their voice, while the popular media continued to ignore them and support/venerate the other parties involved.
Bit harsh to compare him with MJ at this stage I reckon, as MJ was clearly a child abuser. It's nowhere near that certain with old Jimmy yet.
It's nowhere near certain with MJ either, of course. If I were a betting man, my gut feeling is that MJ was innocent and JS was guilty, but I'd be speculating at best based on drip-fed information from the media.
Jackson liked the company of children because he had a mental age of about 12 himself. He was bonkers in the nut, but that doesn't automatically make him a kiddie fiddler. He was also a prime target for parents who saw him as their retirement fund after little Jimmy had a sleep-over Chez Jacko.
I'm no particular fan of either (nor do I particularly dislike either, either), so I'd like to think I'm fairly ambivalently unbiased here. And obviously this is just ill-informed opinion, but I can see considerably less compelling (anecdotal) evidence for MJ's guilt than JS's.
We will now have many people who will testify how much of a bully and a narcissist JS was, that will be adults , the children will have found it impossible to defend themselves.
Sorry cougar, I'm absolutely convinced that MJ was a rampant paedophile. Nothing could convince me otherwise.
if I were a paedophile, I'd have a fun park in my garden. And a pet monkey.
Sorry cougar, I'm absolutely convinced that MJ was a rampant paedophile. Nothing could convince me otherwise.
Gary Glitter would have a go.........
"Where there is a will to condemn, there is evidence."
Jung Chang.
the children will have found it impossible to defend themselves.
So does Jimmy himself against those who we don't even know their names or whether these are witness statements verbatim or taken down by a production company for profit.
Who knows but its weird how a victim who lives a torrid, awful life thanks to an abuser who is scared she wouldn't be believed found a production company who would listen but also probably pay her.
Saying this the production company probably checked their sources- i.e. women did attend that school thoroughly (i.e. maiden names matched register - if......it still existed. If a school has closed down there will be no records left).
Hmmm cougar. I think the 'sharing a bed for cuddles' was the bit where I stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt....
If my neighbour asked me if my son could stop over and share a bed with him what would I say? I'd pick up the phone to the Police.
If someone is a successful singer - what is the difference? Does wearing white socks, pants too short and belting out catchy 80/90's pop tunes make it acceptable?
Many of those abused by priests had to 'wait' until the tide turned before they felt able to come forward, i really think Hora that you should stick to Lance as a cause celeb
Who knows but its weird how a victim who lives a torrid, awful life thanks to an abuser who is scared she wouldn't be believed found a production company who would listen but also probably pay her.
You are highly skilled expert working with victims of abuse, recognised worlwide as a legal expert on the impact of abuse on victims, the shame and how long it takes them to speak out and we thank you for your insights.
When a researchers approaches them and says we have other people speaking out and we are doing a programme are , you so berefet of social skills and understanding that you cannot see why they would take this opportunity ?
One spoke of how she was raped by Savile, but that she blamed herself because "no one blamed him." Another was locked in an isolation unit for days at her approved school when she made allegations about Savile in the 1970s, because she was assumed to be lying, as are so many abused children both then and now. "No one believed me then and I don't expect anyone to believe me now." Unless we start listening to children, in decades to come we will be hearing the same tragic stories.
Can you prove they were paid btw or are you just making an unsubstantiated leap of faith?
.......if I were a paedophile, I'd have a fun park in my garden. And a pet monkey.
If you we're a Multi Millionaire pop star with a Mental age of 12, you probably would as well ?
Do you honestly believe that Jackson had a mental age of 12?
He was a predator.
On the other hand, he did write some catchy pop songs. [i]*Billie jean is not my lover*[/i]
Sorry cougar, I'm absolutely convinced that MJ was a rampant paedophile. Nothing could convince me otherwise.
Sure, and that's your call of course. Personally, being wholly removed from the situation and not privy to any actual evidence, I doubt I'll ever be convinced one way or the other.
I think the 'sharing a bed for cuddles' was the bit where I stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt....
Like I said, he appeared to have the mind of a child. It's a bit of a leap from a "cuddle" to playing a special game that you can't tell mummy about. I'm not saying that sharing a bed with other people's children is particularly normal or desireable behaviour, it's at best monumentally naive but it doesn't automatically mean he was abusing them.
You might be right of course. As I said above, I have no idea what the truth actually is, he could've been Pedobear incarnate for all I know. I'm just not convinced that it's right to condemn someone as guilty until proven innocent just because they're a bit eccentric.
Eccentricity is fine, abusing others is not, they are not mutually inclusive or exclusive.
There is a guy who always rides in marigolds, don't think he's a threat to anyone though
Do you honestly believe that Jackson had a mental age of 12?
He certainly thought more like a child than an Adult.
He was a predator.
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Did you honestly think MJ had learning difficulties? How did he learn his lines, routines, practice, tour etc etc?
What next, the Chewbacca defense? 😆
JS -> Guilty! 👿
Hora - Its all about motivation. Any 6 year old girl could learn every single song, with accompanying dance routine on the X factor, having viewed it only once. Seriously. its terrifying to witness
Did you honestly think MJ had learning difficulties?
I'm reasonably certain he had mental health issues. Whether or not you'd class them as "learning difficulties" is another matter.
If only there had been any other cases exposed recently of trial by media getting the facts wrong? Maybe one where people had unfounded, unproven accusations made against them then splashed all over the popular media, clearly stating it as THE TRUTHOr to put it differently
If only there had been other cases exposed recently where victims' stories had been steadfastly ignored for decades, denying them their voice, while the popular media continued to ignore them and support/venerate the other parties involved.
+1
Well put.
If you say a grown adult male has a mental age of 12 says to me that person has learning difficulties.
If a grown adult male was found to have a strong interest in young boys and you tried to explain this away you'd say 'he never grew up, he loved playing with toys and was just a big boy'.
I think don't think he was either and the latter was a cover by embarrassed fans of his pop music.
He didn't have learning difficulties. HE WAS A DRUG ADDICT.
Look at the songs he's written (please don't try to colour him as an autistic genius or idiot savant; he wasn't) His fans consider him to be very smart and I think he was in his younger years. Then drugs did him in.
I agree re the fans it seems odd that people were happy to turn a blind eye to famous folk doing things they would lynch a neighbour for /hound then out the street - see also Pete"where's the book" Townshend /the Who
Personally, being wholly removed from the situation and not privy to any actual evidence, I doubt I'll ever be convinced one way or the other.
I think this is a healthy attitude to adopt.
To everything.
A: In his first (only?) ever interview, MJ was described by Danny Baker (you know, Mastermind), as having the mind of a child.
B: Around the world, many adults, share beds with children. Only adults who view children sexually would think anything of that.
As for JS, who knows, he certainly came across odd, but we all know that counts for nothing.
As for Rantzen, I edited a video she made with Rolf Harris late 80s/early 90s for children to watch to warn them of paedo dangers. Especially from daddy. Apparently, daddy wanting to bath them when mummy was out was VERY WRONG! No, I've not made that up!
I think Esther might have issues that need resolving.
B: Around the world, many adults, share beds with children. Only adults who view children sexually would think anything of that.
That is the single most stupid thing i have ever read on this or any other website.
As for Rantzen, I edited a video she made with Rolf Harris late 80s/early 90s for children to watch to warn them of paedo dangers. Especially from daddy. Apparently, daddy wanting to bath them when mummy was out was VERY WRONG! No, I've not made that up!
Have you told the whole story there? I'm not so sure you have...
B: Around the world, many adults, share beds with children. Only adults who view children sexually would think anything of that.
Oh dear, I've typed some pretty dumb things in my time. But not this bad, I stand in awe of your stupidity.
IQ test anyone?
If the first thing you think of when hearing that a child and an adult shared a bed is something sexual, that's worrying.
Have you told the whole story there? I'm not so sure you have...
You'd have to watch the video. But that's how it came across to all of us watching.
IQ test anyone?
Yes, I think you should.
If the first thing you think of when hearing that a child and an adult shared a bed is something sexual, that's worrying.
???What???
Have you got any children? Would you let a friend of a friend sleep in the same bed as them unsupervised? Even a friend? What about a pop star? A radio DJ?
It's like listening to Chris Denning.
see also Pete"where's the book" Townshend /the Who
Its coming out in November...
Funny how know one ever mentions Jimmy Page when these 'conversations' come up
Except when there are known allegations of peadophilia
Jimmy 'coconut' Page-- reckon all Jimmys' are dodgy
Have you got any children?
Yes thanks.
Would you let a friend of a friend sleep in the same bed as them unsupervised?
What a ridiculous question, (EDIT) obviously not (/EDIT), but that doesn't alter what I said. Adults, even ones other their parents, have slept in the same bed as my children.
What a ridiculous question, (EDIT) obviously not, but that doesn't alter what I said. Adults, even ones other their parents, have slept in the same bed as my children.
EDIT. you're the one who has used this example in the context of [i]Michael Jackson[/i].
EDIT. I think you're now realising why your comment set us/me off?
Funny how know one ever mentions Jimmy Page when these 'conversations' come up
Eh?
Page is a misogynist but not a suspected paedo as far as is in te public domain
Just one minor although important point:
Paedophilia is the bad one.
Peadophilia is a liking for smallish greenish leguminous vegetables which come in many varieties and can provide a valuable source of all that stuff that we should be having.
It's quite important not to mix them up...
seems that more 'victims' are coming forward , be a busy night tommorrow on them there phone lines
I heard he used to dress up as a school.
I heard he used to be one of the Glentress Trailfaeries.
