elsewhere, the vocal/guitar is obviously hitting 4/4 and sticking with it all the way.
Just listening to it now. The hi hat is quietly providing the swing bit, and that would be 12/8 because the triplets would be rest-rest-hi-hat, which I guess is the way to transcribe the swing idea. But more than that, there is clearly a rhythm guitar banging out all the triplet notes on a single string all the way through the song which gives it that great drive.
They are 8th notes (quavers in proper English speak)
How is that defined without reference to the number of them in a bar?
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What’s that in BPM?If you watch guitarist’s foot at 1:57 you’ll see he’s tapping roughly 140bpm.
taps per minutes doesn't equal bpm, depends where the sub divisions fall, that yin is somewhere around 40-50 bpm.
That Blondie up there – 12/8, only an idiot would notate it in 4/4 with triplets.
Funnily enough, if you search for the score online, pretty much everybody notates it that way.
Manic Depression by any chance? I don't really know.
Funnily enough, if you search for the score online, pretty much everybody notates it that way.
I was just in the process of correcting my post. Initially looking at the extract molgrips posted it would definitely be 12/8, but that extract is incorrect. See my edit. Yes, it's 4/4 and not all triplets.
that yin is somewhere around 40-50 bpm.
50 is 25% higher than 40, I think you can count whatever you're counting closer than that. What are you counting?
Ignoring the foot tapping I get 4 cycles of 6 beats in just under 10s so that confirms 140bpm. You can consider it 70bpm if you are counting double-croches
that yin is somewhere around 40-50 bpm.
50 is 25% higher than 40, I think you can count whatever you’re counting closer than that. What are you counting?
Ignoring the foot tapping I get 4 cycles of 6 beats in just under 10s so that confirms 140bpm. You can consider it 70bpm if you are counting double-croches
1 and a 2 and a
tbh, I didn't count, just knew it wasn't 140. I have counted and I'd put at about 45bpm.
2 notes in the bar for 6/8.
Guess you could also write it as 2/4 with triplets if you wanted too, also of these things are interchangeable to be and a written in what feels best to the musician.
3 x 45 = 135. You sure you that isn't 47? It seems you are only counting every third beat.
Edi: I see you've edited. I count the individual beats (beats per minute) and you are counting triplets per minute.
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3 x 45 = 135. You sure you that isn’t 47? It seems you are only counting every third beat.Edi: I see you’ve edited. I count the individual beats (beats per minute) and you are counting triplets per minute.
45 is close enough a guess. 😆
yeah, a triplet is one beat in this instance.
Or three beats.
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Or three beats.
no it's defo 1 beat. you feel the 1,2,3 or 1 and a, however you like to count it.
I think Subterranean Homesick Alien by Radiohead is 6/8? And really wears its timing on its sleeve too, it's pretty much what makes the song.
Apparently Jeff Buckley's version of Hallelujah is- can't quite get my head around it enough to be sure, I'm not that good at time signatures...
Has there ever been a good song in 6/8 time?
The first song at the link from IdleJon is 'House of the Rising Sun' by the Animals. You can look for a better song than that, but you aren't going to find one.
I can't really tell the difference between 3/4 and 6/8, but a friend tells me that "That's how strong my love is" by Otis Redding is 6/8. A few other of his songs have a similar feel. Yes, they're good.
That Blondie up there – 12/8, only an idiot would notate it in 4/4 with triplets.
There’s some utter cobblers on this thread, but that is absolutely out and out the biggest pile of horse crap out there.
It’s clearly in 4/4. Every transcription or sheet music for that song shows it’s in 4/4.
Just because there’s a bar of triplets doesn’t make it 12/8!
My understanding is that 6/8 and 12/8 are 2 beats or 4 beats to the bar but each beat is 3 notes. Which is why you can represent a 12/8 tune as 4/4 but with triplets. And vice versa.
The person I know with the most musical knowledge (goes around the world examining grade 8 for the Royal College of Music, but also plays a mean sax) explained to me that the difference between 3/4 and 6/8 was "America".
Leonard Bernstein's America from West Side Story. Alternating bars of 6/8 and 3/4. The only way it can be written, says he.
And although the Beatles' Little help From My Friends is in straight 4/4 Joe Cocker does it in 6/8.
Chuck Berry regularly throws in triplets in 4/4s at 160-170bpm. Often in the format: one two three, one two three, one two. So eight beats which fit nicely into the 4/4.Always counted as individual beats. Pete Townsend does the same. If you tried to count the triplets as one beat it would be impossible to give a time signature in that case. In the case of Metalica, if you accept it's 6/8 you're also accepting the "6" is the number of beats to the bar so 140bpm. 🙂
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Chuck Berry regularly throws in triplets in 4/4s at 160-170bpm. Often in the format: one two three, one two three, one two. So eight beats which fit nicely into the 4/4.Always counted as individual beats. Pete Townsend does the same. If you tried to count the triplets as one beat it would be impossible to give a time signature in that case. In the case of Metalica, if you accept it’s 6/8 you’re also accepting the “6” is the number of beats to the bar so 140bpm. 🙂
Yeah they just don't know what they are talking about. 😆
@140bpm
4/4 at quarter notes = 140 hits per minute. it's 140bpm
4/4 with 8th notes = 280 hits per minute. it's still 140bpm
4/4 with triplets = 420 hits per minute. it's still 140bpm
4/4 with 16th notes = 560 hits per minute. it's still 140bpm
with the metalica one it tells and 6/8 in general it usually tells you the length of a beat.
Like this.
[img] 
[/img]
4/4 with triplets = 420 hits per minute. it’s still 140bpm
Or 3/4 or 6/8 at 420bpm.
Edit: Google doen't help much in this case, you'll find as many if not more people noting it at 140ish as 46.
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4/4 with triplets = 420 hits per minute. it’s still 140bpmOr 3/4 or 6/8 at 420bpm.
no, no one is playing music at 420bpm. 😆
Nah, but machines can. You're the one who came up with an improbable number of hits/beats, not me.
it's not improbable there's plenty of people that can play 16ths at 140bpm. They are still only playing at 140bpm though, not 560bpm. 😆
you count 1 e and a 2 e and a. well you stop counting when you get that high, but you feel the louder notes as the beats. It's still 4/4 at 140bpm. It's doesn't become 16/4, just cause you added extra notes.
Like I say a beat doesn't = a hit.
In the case of Metalica it's fascinating looking through the music scores on the Net. 46, 48, 50 (which is defintiely wrong, it's not that fast even if you're counting triplets), 71, 76 (counting 140/2 which flies in the face of 6/8)), 129, 138, 142.
There is no concensus.
I'll stick with my foot tapping, 140. 🙂
4/4 with triplets = 420 hits per minute. it’s still 140bpm
Or 3/4 or 6/8 at 420bpm.
Edit: Google doen’t help much in this case, you’ll find as many if not more people noting it at 140ish as 46.
with 3/4 you count it as 1,2,3. etc Thjere will be 3 beats in the bar.
With 6/8 you it's fairly standard to count it as 1 and a, 2 and a. Or 1,2,3,4,5,6. There's 2 beats in the bar. (albeit subdivided by triplets)
It's not particularly intuitive, but that's how it works.
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There is no concensus.
Definitely don't ask on guitarist forums or drummer forums, very few of them know and think a hit = a beat.. 😆
Well interms of defining beats, notes, quarter notes, eighths etc. this corresponds to what I've learned:
https://www.studybass.com/lessons/reading-music/time-signatures/
yeah, it tells you on that page.
6/8 is grouped into 2 groups of 3 eighth notes.
We're talking about bpm, beats per minutes, not notes or eights:
Time signatures consist of two numbers written like a fraction.
The top number of the time signature tells you how many beats to count. This could be any number. Most often the number of beats will fall between 2 and 12.
The bottom number tells you what kind of note to count. That is, whether to count the beats as quarter notes, eighth notes, or sixteenth notes. So the only numbers you will see as the bottom number (the denominator) will correspond to note values:
1 = whole note (you’ll never see this)
2 = half note
4 = quarter note
8 = eighth note
16 = sixteenth note
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if you accept it’s 6/8 you’re also accepting the “6” is the number of beats to the bar so 140bpm. 🙂
Btw, 6/8 isn't telling you there's 6 beats in a bar, it's telling you there's 6 8th notes in a bar. Generally it's accept that 1 quarter note equals a beat, but not always. If you look at 6/8 I posted for that metallica song it tells the the note length, which in the music above I posted is 50 bpm = •. (a dotted quarter note) which means the bpm is 50 and 3 x 8th notes = 1 beat. (Or that 6 8th notes = 2 beats.)
Also, fwiw, I think it speeds up a bit, so I'm saying it's 45-50 it's actually played at. 😉
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We’re talking about bpm, beats per minutes, not notes or eights:
bpm is based on the beat(where you feel the beat), not the individual hit though.
Six then. 🙂 I'm been quite happy to accept counting triplets so 46, or beats so 140bpm. The top number is 6 so six beats or 2 triplets. I'd rather count beats thanks, it's what my foot does naturally, especially when the drummer is doing something else as in this case and the two only come together on some of the beats.
Go ahead and have the last word, this is going nowhere, most people in real life would be happy to accept either counting beats or triplets and get on with playing. It's about communication between musicians. I'd rather play guitar than type on this sort of thread.
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Six then. 🙂 I’m been quite happy to accept counting triplets so 46, or beats so 140bpm. The top number is 6 so six beats or 2 triplets. I’d rather count beats thanks, it’s what my foot does naturally
That's fine. Just accept you are wrong and you aren't counting beats 😆 you are counting hits along with 99.99% of other guitarists.. 😆
If you feel the beat as 1 and a 2 and a. that's more correct than(and easier to count than), 1,2,3,4,5,6. It's a subtle difference but useful once you get it.
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Go ahead and have the last word, this is going nowhere, most people in real life would be happy to accept either counting beats or triplets and get on with playing. It’s about communication between musicians. I’d rather play guitar than type on this sort of thread.
What's with the huff? thought we were just having a chat? 😆
There’s some utter cobblers on this thread, but that is absolutely out and out the biggest pile of horse crap out there.
Indeed you are quite right, I was talking cobblers as I acknowledged in my edit. I was referring to the fragment which had been posted earlier in the thread which, it turns out, was incorrect. I accept the actual score is in 4/4.
No huff. I've been adding smiley's throughout while you've added six grimaces on this page.
I'm quite happy, really. I've just tried counting beats or triplets while playing. The first was instant and no problem, the second would take considerable time:
Scores list Norwegian Wood anywhere between 46 (oh God that number again, and 220). No concensus
1 e a
or
1 e and.
you don't just count 1, 2.
You still count all the other hits, you just differentiate where the beat is.
You are doing it when you are doing 1,2,3,4,5,6. It's basically the same thing, you are differentiating and feeling the beat on the 1 and the 4.
It's doesn't matter which way you count the individual subdivision.
The point where you are differentiating the beat is how you count bpm, ie, the way you count, the BPM is determined by how many 1s and 4s there are in a minute.
You should be by counting anyhow and have this stuff internalised mind you. 😆 😉
