intelligence does. Down with all these quiet bright children.
believe that we have heart trouble in America. I believe that because we don't teach values and character issues, you can get a very fine education in America, but it just creates clever devils. The last couple of shootings, the one we had in Aurora, which is not far from my house, and this one, and even Columbine, all of those were very intelligent young men and it creates an element of evil in these young men.There's nothing like compassion, mercy, nothing that would draw them back from going over the edge like that. It's really a danger to have such highly educated, intelligent people being able to get the equipment and the weapons that they want, to carry out their mass murders.
We have to start with the family - families teaching their children about how precious life is. Kids don't understand the permanent consequences from violence. Real violence has real consequences.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20760350
Misrepresented quotes do? 😀
I don't see how intelligence creates devils that are able to carry out mass murder more easily.
Shooting children in close confined quarters isn't very hard to carry out from a technical standpoint. If he'd killed an entire swat team she might have had a point.
What's scary is that the mother of one of the kids shot at Columbine doesn't favour an outright ban on guns.... 😯
Lack of Christianity in schools now to blame....I especially like how they managed to include abortion
The children died.....cuz they didn't believe in god. Da biiig man in da sky saved the ones that did.
Hysterical mothers now publicly humiliating their children
It's all getting a bit paedageddon now isn't it?
Lack of Christianity in schools now to blame....I especially like how
they managed to include abortion
That shite is quite the piss boiler. Wonder if the same logic is applicable to the many, many church mass shootings they've had over the years?
Second thoughts, I think logic is the furthest thing from these folks' minds when forming an opinion.
Time to bring this one out again...
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Interesting Youtube clips as well, some people.....
What's scary is that the mother of one of the kids shot at Columbine doesn't favour an outright ban on guns....
What's even more scary is that she thinks the answer is teachers carrying guns!!!!!!!!!!! 😯
I'm OK with the fact that they want to have a concealed weapon, in case anybody did come into their school. Teachers would have a way to defend their students and themselves.
Some of my teachers at school could barely be trusted with a sharpened pencil, especially after their liquid lunch...
After careful, considered, and objective analysis, I've concluded that as a nation, they're all absolutely bloody barking, bat-shit mental! The lot of 'em!
Half my family are American 😉
The problem is that the whole country has got itself into one gigantic Mexican standoff. No-one can put their gun down until everyone else does.
You see guys - you're just not thinking laterally enough:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/plans-to-encourage-troops-to-become-teachers
Could they not just get Chuck Norris to train the next generation of tooled up teachers?
Actually... what are the chances that [s]some[/s] every foaming-at-the-mouth, uber right wing talk show host hasn't already suggested that?
Binners, that's one of the Pro gun lobby's biggest agruments.... If everyone carried guns (including teachers in school) when somebody runs amuck the general public, who are armed to the teeth, can "take down" the rouge. By not having to wait for the police the number of people killed by the orginal nutter is reduced.
MADNESS
Ro5ey - I was watching, in utter disbelief, an apparently intelligent bloke on Channel 4 news, voiced that precise argument. I'm constantly amazed at how a large percentage of the population of an educated, developed nation can hold these views? Completely detached as they are from any other perception of reality, as anyone else experiences it on the entire planet (bar the odd lawless war zone)
Utter insanity
an educated, developed nation
There's the flaw in your argument, right there
It was interesting listening to PM on the way home last night, they were speaking to a Democrat lobbyist who was a staunch gun control campaigner. when asked what sort of changes they could expect in the wake of the recent shootings he said greater controls on Assault Rifles and possible higher capacity clips (~30 Rounds) would be a realistic goal, when asked if he thought there would be greater controls placed on hand guns he said [I]"No not a chance... This is America..."[/I] Interestingly the statistics basically tell us that Handguns are far and away the biggest killer in the US...
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States ]Wiki[/url]
It's interesting even with a mass of evidence stacked against the current status-quo the expectation, even among those keenest to see greater control, is that the NRA & Co will still do their damndest (and probably get their way) to keep access to all sorts of firearms pretty much unfettered...
There are already arseholes claiming this whole thing would have been averted if teachers and schools security staff were allowed to carry guns in schools, trying to turn this around and make the argument that this killing was caused by having too much gun control already... The danger is of course that fringe mentalists hijack any sensible debate (that should have happened several decades earlier) and prevent any progress again.
I was browsing some car forums the other day. Obviously, UK forums are a lot more relevant to me so I have a look around a new forum to see where most of the posts come from.
Latest post on one mainstream ford forum was
"Where do I stash my gun in my ford focus?"
Think it was an american site.
If they really can't bring themselves to ban them outright, why not follow the lead from cigarettes and try and make them less attractive?
1. Place massive tax on sale of new guns and all ammunition
2. Make the guns less attractive. They must all be painted pink and have big feathers attached to them.
3. No advertising of guns or ammunition, at all, ever.
4. Make the licensing process lengthy, complicated and very very expensive
I know lots of guns are already in circulation but you have to start somewhere. Might be quicker and easier than changing the Constitution.
I was given the opportunity to move the family to america a while ago. Their attitude to guns was the single biggest reason we didn't go.
It's depressing. Even some intelligent pro-gun Americans I know are trotting out the same old rubbish and saying that anti-gun "nuts" are hijacking grief to further their agendas.
There's over 200 million guns in the US - ISTM they're way too far down the road for any real reforms. Can only attempt peripheral actions around the edges of the issue.
Is there ever likely to be any meaningful pressure from the international community to challenge this?
Why would anyone bother? America - renowned as it is to listening carefully to the opinion of anyone outside Washington when making decisions.
If America is still seen as the "leader of the Free World (tm)", then I fully expect there to be a deafening silence. After allm we can complain as much as we want about anything and the US will just ignore it anyway.
Like Kyoto.
Or WTO orders.
Or rendition.
I like America, it's a lovely place and has a lot of nice people in it, but the nation as a whole is massively fscked up and I cannot see how it is going to get better.
If everyone carried guns (including teachers in school) when somebody runs amuck the general public, who are armed to the teeth, can "take down" the rouge. By not having to wait for the police the number of people killed by the orginal nutter is reduced.
Has this actually happened? Has a tragedy ever been averted by a member of the public "taking down" a rogue?
After careful, considered, and objective analysis, I've concluded that as a nation, they're all absolutely bloody barking, bat-shit mental! The lot of 'em!
Not so - most of them are not posting right wing garbage on comments sections.
"Has this actually happened? Has a tragedy ever been averted by a member of the public "taking down" a rogue?"
I believe George Zimmerman was said to have "taken down" such a madman in self defence in Flordia a few months back.
oh and rogue/rouge all the same to the NRA, beacuase if you want to give up guns you must be a big girl's blouse of a liberal and if you're liberal you must be a commie and therefore a red. 😀
"Has this actually happened? Has a tragedy ever been averted by a member of the public "taking down" a rogue?"
Apparently yes it has, fairly frequently. However the analysis didn't include the fact that the rogues themselves were also armed members of the public.
Takeing god out of schools causes shootings? What utter tripe.
If everyone carried guns (including teachers in school) when somebody runs amuck the general public, who are armed to the teeth, can "take down" the rouge. By not having to wait for the police the number of people killed by the orginal nutter is reduced.MADNESS
Madness perhaps, but somewhat uncomfortably supported by the statistics
http://dailyanarchist.com/2012/07/31/auditing-shooting-rampage-statistics/
Have we got any examples of passers by being accidentally shot in the crossfire when a 'citizen' tries to 'take down a rogue'*
*seeing as we're all apparently now expected to use these stupid ****ing Americanism's
Z-11 that looks like a fine source of balanced and independent opinion. Do you watch Fox News? What have they got to say on the matter?
Z-11 that looks like a fine source of balanced and independent opinion
And your point is? Does that mean that the statistics he's presented are wrong? you can't dismiss the data on the basis of not liking the political slant of the source.
if you can say he's wrong or undermine the stats, fine, but otherwise...
Given the way America developed as a nation, their behaviour when it comes to firearms is inevitable.
I really can't see a way to redefine their culture.
Small steps help, as they do when trying to reduce drinking, smoking etc.
Banning assault riles would be a positive start.
Much work, many lifetimes.
Rogues ARE citizens.
Binners I was all set to accuse that article of right wing bias but it does seem to be reasonably well thought out.
Z-11 - Instead of having to research the stats published in everything I read (life's too short), I use the old fashioned method of reading a news source that looks like it may be reasonably independent, as opposed to just bending things to fit its own agenda
Guess what that looks like? 😆
There are close to a million assault rifles and had guns 'in-ciculation' in Switzerland. By law all military reservists have to keep their rifle at home. The swiss government actually subsidises the cost of ammunition to encourage reservists to practice.
The number of people shot dead/ gun crime in Switzerland last year? 45, out of a population of 8 million.
In the US, around 8,500. Out of a population of 300 million.
Madness perhaps, but somewhat uncomfortably supported by the statisticshttp://dailyanarchist.com/2012/07/31/auditing-shooting-rampage-statistics/
That "analysis" assumes that the supply of armed rampage shooters is constant in both "gun control" and "no gun control" cases.
The number of people shot dead/ gun crime in Switzerland last year? 45, out of a population of 8 million
Well, see you're onto a whole nother argument there. The thing is, there's shootings and there's shootings.
I suspect a very large portion of the US shootings are gangland drug related shootings. So it's a social issue rather than a gun control issue, isn't it? The real issue with US society is its deep divisions.
DrJ - it doesn't 'assume' anything, its a real world data comparison.
I use the old fashioned method of reading a news source that looks like it may be reasonably independent, as opposed to just bending things to fit its own agenda
Like the BBC and the Guardian 😆
If you include the [url= http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/specials/switzerland_for_the_record/european_records/Switzerland_s_troubling_record_of_suicide.html?cid=8301804 ]gun suicides[/url] for Switzerland then there are about 400 gun deaths
every year.
In the US it's about 30 000 gun suicides.
There have been guns in circulation in lots of countries for years. What's new are the shoot-'em-up killers that come from a generation of shoot-'em-up video gamers. How did Anders spend his days before walking around an island killing people? Doing exactly the same on his computer. I wonder if they'll ever tell us how this latest American killer spent his days before exchanging his virtual guns for real ones.
Molgrips, an excellent point.
Would be very interesting to see by how much violent assault would fall as a result of tighter controls.
What's new are the shoot-'em-up killers that come from a generation of shoot-'em-up video gamers
Now THAT's what I call bollocks!
