A nine year old will most likely be scarred for life and a family have lost a dad. These seems like the important points of this sad story
Gun control will occur in the states when somebody makes the NRA disappear. As with most bits of politics especially in the US it's not the majority that counts, it's the majority of the money. When you have rich and powerful people bankrolling the pro gun side it's not going to end.
Nothing is impossible if enough people want it. It practically can't happen now because not enough people want it
In theory - but how would you get rid of all the guns that already exist?
True, but the he worked for Fox.... doing sensationalist shite that perpetuates the problem.
He won't have been working for Fox - he'll have been working for a production company with zero job security, poor pay, no benefits, no health insurance and no steady income. There's been a good series of articles on Gawker about the dangerous and exploitative conditions that unscripted TV workers have to put up with if they want to work.
But hey - it's another opportunity for people to sneer and feel self righteous about a death at work!
in theory - but how would you get rid of all the guns that already exist?
how did it happen here in the uk? did gun owners have to hand in their firearms?
I don't think we've ever had anything like as many guns here as they have in the US...
Yep, there was an amnesty - they were all licensed so the police had records of who had what and they got the vast majority in without having to pursue the owners at all. When my shotgun licence expired I handed in a box of cartridges at the local police station - the WPC behind the counter was a bit perturbed to say the least.
Edit - i think some people had them deactivated so they could have scary paperweights or sominck and they had to be certified as such
Ah, the number of coppers who think you need a certificate to possess shotgun cartridges 🙂
Even better is the ones who don't actually understand the law on firearms and highway s....
I don't think we've ever had anything like as many guns here as they have in the US...
The figure I saw for the States was 97 guns per 100 population, so just over 300 million firearms. That's a scary number.
Over here, there were relatively few handguns when they were made illegal so it was relatively trivial to have an amnesty. I assume, the States would have to head slowly towards an outright ban by gradually making it harder and harder to purchase/own over time. They could start with not selling assault weaponry in supermarkets, a minimum age for operating an Uzi, etc. and work from there.
The figure I saw for the States was 97 guns per 100 population, so just over 300 million firearms. That's a scary number.
Is that the legal ones, or all of them?
as ever, wiki has an enlightening list of guns per capita:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country
I assume, the States would have to head slowly towards an outright ban by gradually making it harder and harder to purchase/own over time
This
Phase 1
Make concealed carry illegal but you can keep you gun locked up at home
Ban sale of all automatic weaponry
Hand in amenesty of all the big scary millitary hardware
Phase 2
Ban sale of hand guns
Hand in amenesty of all automatic weapons
...
Phase 27
Regular police hand in their weapon.
Obviously this would be a huge undertaking but it's not impossible. Where there is a will there is a way. The wealthy gun lobby is an issue but there is a limit to how much money you can throw at a problem, just ask the tabaco industry.
Again, you can't compare a country like the US to the UK. Completely different system.This is total horse shit
I am assuming you haven't travelled to or lived in the US. Go to Georgia, Alabama, NY, California, Iowa... and compare the people, lifestyle. Then try and get your head around local, county, state, and federal law system.
Add on top of that a land area the size of the entirity of Europe and a population 6 times that of the UK, you will realise you can't directly compare the two countries.
Wasn't that sound guy killed by a police bullet? The robber had an imitation gun or something. Shows how gung ho some of those cops are. They'd previously been under investigation for several other incidents. Was on R4 this morning but can't find info now as in work.
Obviously this would be a huge undertaking but it's not impossible. Where there is a will there is a way.
Yeah the problem would be all the willing criminals who would totally ignore the law. Robbing gas stations and shooting gang memebers is already illegal, one more law to break won't make a difference. The guns won't ever be handed in.
Yeah the problem would be all the willing criminals who would totally ignore the law. Robbing gas stations and shooting gang memebers is already illegal, one more law to break won't make a difference. The guns won't ever be handed in.
Unless you triple the penalty for any crime where use of a handgun is involved.
Wasn't that sound guy killed by a police bullet? The robber had an imitation gun or something. Shows how gung ho some of those cops are. They'd previously been under investigation for several other incidents. Was on R4 this morning but can't find info now as in work.
He was - the robber had a fake gun so the only people shooting were the police.
He was - the robber had a fake gun so the only people shooting were the police.
I thought so. I understand the pressure of that kind of situation and understand the gunman being shot as its a split second decision but surely its beyond comprehension that the sound guy was caught in the crossfire. I've got my tin foil hat on for this.
Haven't scoped this entire thread but has anyone questioned the parent that decided it was fine for his/her 9 yr old daughter to fire an Uzi and like why? What possible way was her life going to be enhanced by firing a sub machine gun and as it is, she is now damaged for life, she'll carry that with her for ever poor kid. I have no sympathy for the instructor, the school or anyone else, madness.
I mean even if you could here, would you? Let your baby girl fire a bloody machine gun?
It's also common knowledge they lift, basic procedure is to instruct that much to grown ups, why did he switch it to auto? Anyone with the remotest intelligence about the subject could have predicted that possibility.
Horrible just horrible, left me speechless.
has anyone questioned the parent that decided it was fine for his/her 9 yr old daughter to fire an Uzi and like why?
Parents weren't neccessarily there or doing the supervision...?
Parents were the ones filming.
Parents weren't neccessarily there
The parents were the ones filming according to the news.
Unless you triple the penalty for any crime where use of a handgun is involved.
At what point does the robber have nothing to lose by opening fire rather than being caught?
The robber had an air soft gun , fires plastic balls .
And fired it at the police so no sympathy.
He would have been better throwing it away and having on his toes of he did not want to hand himself in.
When they banned handguns in this country they had to compensate all owners book value of all guns handed in.
All the people I know did very well financially out of handing the guns in although still very pissed of about it.
The robber had an air soft gun , fires plastic balls .
And fired it at the police so no sympathy.
No sympathy at all for the scrote, my point was how the hell did the police manage to shoot the sound recordist? You don't have to have much training in firearms to know that your field of fire is critical to your colleagues safety. They would all have known this or shouldn't be behind a large caliber pistol. Ricochet is a possibility I suppose but unlikely as it found a gap in a kevlar vest.
The way I read it was they shot the robber he then ran past them and out the door and at some point the sound man found himself between the robber and the police.
There would be a real chance of a sound man running around following police in a gun fight getting shot by a criminal you would think but would not be inconceivable to be shot by the police.
What are the laws for an officer using there gun.
If someone starts shooting at you across a busy restaurant for instance are you allowed to shoot back they must find them selfs under fire in public places.
What are the laws for an officer using there gun.
There don't appear to be many if any. They just let fly with as much firepower as they have and sod the consequences. I'm glad I live in a country where the plod only get gas and telescopic batons unless they have rigorous training in firearms.
LHS you repeatedly state one can't compare different countries but that is exactly what you sought to do when you posted:-
"One things for sure, look at the levels of violent crime by country and the UK is number 2 in the world. Highest in Europe."
Which is also nonsense as has been pointed out.
I'm glad I live in a country where the plod only get gas and telescopic batons unless they have rigorous training in firearms.
LOL! You wish! You should hear some of the stories about coppers weapon handling skills from squaddies when they've had to train with them.
[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
[/img]
LOL! You wish! You should hear some of the stories about coppers weapon handling skills from squaddies when they've had to train with them.
Ha Ha best post ever! As an ex squaddie mate let me tell you that most of us couldn't hit a cow's arse with a shovel let alone control a Browning Hi-Power! We were told a hand gun was a back up weapon and if you ever got in a situation where you had to draw one you were probably not getting out of it alive. I don't even think squaddies are issued side arms any more but I could be wrong.
I could hit a coke can at 30 yards with a berreta 9mm , what are they teaching you soldier boys.
Hi-Powers were total shit IMO. Me being of an age when we were allowed hand guns I shot them every other weekend.
Always found it had a very wippy recoil hated shooting the bloody thing now a Colt 45 was a completely different beast cracking gun super smooth very accurate. 🙂
The story goes when the bans were coming in every one bought up any old second hand shit as they got full price compo for when the police carted them away and paid up 🙂
Still miss shooting them though 😐
Edit
I could hit a coke can at 30 yards with a bow and arrow 😀
chip - Member
I could hit a coke can at 30 yards with a berreta 9mm , what are they teaching you soldier boys.
POSTED 24 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
here we go!
I'm not doubting you fellas could give wyatt earp a run for his money 😀 just saying that your average squaddie isn't blessed with shooting skills especially with a handgun. Hi-Power was ok and reliable but crap compared to baretta or fancy Sig and Glocks. I don't think side arms are standard issue now but SA80 not much bigger.
After the boer war where the British were shown they could not shoot for shit by the Dutch the British government pushed for all men folk to shoot for a pastime.
Encouraging shooting clubs all round the country and even in pubs.
Through tunnel type contraptions.
Because if the country could shoot well they would have readymade marksman when and if needed to be called up.
So that really surprises me that the don't teach the army to shoot well because they learnt a long time ago an army that can't shoot is like a chocolate fire guard.
Well, looks like I've started a flame war. My work here is done. 
So that really surprises me that the don't teach the army to shoot well because they learnt a long time ago an army that can't shoot is like a chocolate fire guard.
On a serious note....times changed, it's all about lobbing as much HE and automatic fire down range into the vicinity of the enemy. Historically, soldiers were notoriously bad at drawing a bead on someone and killing them.....you know...what with having a sense of humanity and all.
In the days when most troops were armed with bolt action rifles that had a relatively slow rate of fire and shot rather large rounds that limited the amount of ammo that a soldier carried, then aimed shots were the norm. After the second world war people slowly started to realize that most troops didn't aimed to kill, that about 10 percent of frontline soldiers did most of the killing and that most of the fighting took place under 300 yards. Hence the move to automatic weapons using smaller calibers, this lead to wars such as the vietnam war seeing a hell of a lot more ammunition expended per engagement/kill.
If there is someone willing to kill me , I would rather mark my target and get him shot the sooner the better.
But I see your point but still would expect them to be able to shoot well even if they are not expected to do so.
Pigface - Member
I am amazed a nine year old could actually hold an Uzi
Big grip on an uzi too. Doubt the kid would have had a proper grip and when they pressed the trigger it would have risen up and to the left probs.
Silly. Just silly.
LHS you repeatedly state one can't compare different countries but that is exactly what you sought to do when you posted:-
"One things for sure, look at the levels of violent crime by country and the UK is number 2 in the world. Highest in Europe."
Which is also nonsense as has been pointed out
I think it is fair to compare the UK with other European countries. Comparing the UK with the rest of Europe as an entirity would be different. Very easy to generalise.
ninfan - Member
Unless you triple the penalty for any crime where use of a handgun is involved.
At what point does the robber have nothing to lose by opening fire rather than being caught?
You make the penalty for just having the weapon on you bigger, for using it even bigger. If you've a choice between 18 months or 18 years, you've something to lose. (Numbers chosen largely at random; no idea what sentencing is like in the States.)
We did it here fairly recently for knives or other weapons, sentencing guidelines now suggest a mandatory jail term for anyone who uses a knife or offensive weapon to threaten and endanger others.
I agree on the increased penalties and jail terms but this is where the US has the advantage. They just keep building prisons to cope with the increased numbers. In the UK the criminals know that the prison system is at breaking point and you will probably get suspended sentence and community service for a simple possession.
chip - Member
After the boer war where the British were shown they could not shoot for shit by the Dutch the British government pushed for all men folk to shoot for a pastime.
Encouraging shooting clubs all round the country and even in pubs.
Through tunnel type contraptions.Because if the country could shoot well they would have readymade marksman when and if needed to be called up.
So that really surprises me that the don't teach the army to shoot well because they learnt a long time ago an army that can't shoot is like a chocolate fire guard.
I can assure you they still teach them, living as we do not far from the ranges, they're on the go night and bloody day at times. There used to be a small arms school next to where I live, went there myself when I was a kid and they let the boy scouts do badges on the subject and there were clubs anyone could attend and learn to eventually fire full bore.
But you only got to full bore once you were competent at .22 and nobody went near Automatics until they were 16 minimum. The yanks are beyond help.
Again, you can't compare a country like the US to the UK. Completely different system.This is total horse shit
I am assuming you haven't travelled to or lived in the US. Go to Georgia, Alabama, NY, California, Iowa... and compare the people, lifestyle. Then try and get your head around local, county, state, and federal law system.
Add on top of that a land area the size of the entirity of Europe and a population 6 times that of the UK, you will realise you can't directly compare the two countries.
You can compare anything you want.
Ironically you can even compare apples and oranges. An apple is green/red but an orange is orange, both are edible, both are fruit and so on.
Just as I can compare the UK and the USA, both are member states of the UN, both have a democratically elected government, the USA runs a federal system but the UK does not. The USA has a very high number of firearms related deaths compared to the UK.
Your lower level of detail gives some insight into why this is the case but it doesn't mean a top level comparison to say the USA as a whole is a very backward society when it comes to guns is not a valid comparision.
Your lower level of detail gives some insight into why this is the case but it doesn't mean a top level comparison to say the USA as a whole is a very backward society when it comes to guns is not a valid comparision.
It's a gross generalisation. If you are happy with that then ok, but it's exactly the same as saying:
British people as a whole have bad teeth or British people as a whole love Football.
Texas has a bigger land area than France. That is just one of 50 states. Go to Dallas or Houston then go to San Francisco or New York and tell me the people are the same. If California was a country, it would have a larger land area than Germany and it would have the 8th largest economy in the world.