[i]If you are happy to shoot them, why not get a cage trap and shoot them once caught.[/i]
Because you need to check the trap every 24 hours, they are less target specific and I don't have a gun handy so would need to bash their brains in with a hammer or axe which is messy
would need to bash their brains in with a hammer or axe which is messy
Haha .... I was just thinking about these rodent blighters while on my ride this morning as there seemed to be lots of them around - I wasn't quick enough to go up a tree.. lol ....
I remember as a kid my grandfathers long haired dachshund taking one for a kill .... perhaps you should try one or two of these as instead of an air rifle!
So much wrong in this post but I have a spare few moments
As a retired butcher I’m disgusted with all the calls from people to just shot them with air rifles, or such. Have f&^*& none of you any humanity whatsoever ?.
Okay, to start with I would never advocate that anyone who cannot make a clean and consistent shot at the required range should even attempt to do so. That would be irresponsible not to mention illegal (minimising suffering).
I’ve been asked several times to do this is a poaching setting, to kill deer and sheep and have known a couple of butchers over the years engaged in this. I’ve even been asked a number of times by a best mate. I refuse.
With an air rifle? Really? Do you have a .50 on ticket with a rack of gas bottles?
We slaughter in a controlled environment. There are no unconsidered variables and we look to dispatch as quickly and as painlessly as we as humans can devise.
It may surprise you but that's exactly what hunters in the field do to the greatest extent possible. Control the environment and variables to ensure a clean, painless kill. But with the best will in the world it can sometimes go wrong. Even in an abattoir.
I could never recreate that in the field, to be able to dispatch that animal cleanly and without suffering.
I applaud you for being able to admit so but for the purposes of this discussion that is your limitation and yours alone.
Catch and release or have someone do that for you. If a cull is required, then leave that to professionals. Killing animals is not a diy affair.
As pointed out catching and releasing would be illegal under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 and Invasive Alien Species (Enforcement and Permitting) Order 2019 conforming to EU Regulation 1143/2014. I see no problem with DIY control provided the person is doing so with full knowledge of the law and their own capabilities.
I don’t have a gun handy so would need to bash their brains in with a hammer or axe which is messy
Er, that escalated quickly! Much easier to trap it with a comb and then an easy shot but YMMV.
Squirrelking - Great name for this thread.Yep I agree with much of what you said. again though, I don't want to have to check the trap every 24 hours, especially if I just leave it up and running for a few months or so to deter new incomers. Plus, I still don't own or really need a gun so end up using hand tool to dispatch the ones I catch.
I think I am going to pull the trigger and order one. How long for deliver from New Zealand do we think?
I caught loads in my loft ages ago with a trap loaded up with a peanut butter sandwich. Vets wouldn't do the decent thing and apparently they can make their own way back within 1km.
Didn't think it was a problem having squirrels up there but happened to mention it to a builder friend, get them sorted asap they 'll eat your electrics.
Amased the gap they were getting in through you could hardly see it.
. Plus, I still don’t own or really need a gun so end up using hand tool to dispatch the ones I catch.
That's fair enough, just saying there are cleaner, easier ways.
I think I am going to pull the trigger and order one
MAKE YOUR MIND UP!!!!1!ONE!
I couldn't use any non-discriminating trap as we have a mix of greys and reds visit our garden.
t'is ordered
Trout - I wouldn't either but we have only greys. No reds, no Pine Martins
🤷♂️
@Squirrelking He’s ordered https://goodnaturetraps.co.uk/humane-squirrel-traps/ /blockquote>
Whoosh.
indeed, go on then explain it.............
An extremely important part of food animals is inspection. This is something I did as some extra vocational training at the vet department of Glasgow Abattoir.
Inspecting the lymphatic system, knowing (at the time) what to look for, discolouration and the like. Knowing where those nodes are and how to incise them. Chewcking the internal organs, the visual inspection of the carcass.
Shoot a wild animal and eat it ?. Utterly mental. None of you lot heard of covid 19.
I'd rather have something that I shot myself than some pre-packaged rubbish from a supermarket shelf.
However, an expert recently pointed out that everyone who shoots game is a criminal. The evidence is overwhelming. With facts like that, who could possibly argue?
Shoot a wild animal and eat it ?. Utterly mental. None of you lot heard of covid 19.
You're supposedly a butcher, you tell us. How about the avian flu passed as a result of intensive poultry farming? CJD via BSE & scrapie? Ring any bells, no?
Where do you think game butchers get their meat from, a good rummage up their arse?
indeed, go on then explain it………….
It was a joke based on the usual "pulling the trigger" phrase. I thought the !!!1!ONE! stuff made it obvious.
Woa buddy, no need to get upset and start screaming the odds.
Yes butcher, 3 years day release at the Glasgow college food tech, while in shop, then after about 6 years in retail, I thought to change to inspection as a more professional career and I couldn't see the trade continuing much longer.
Gave that up 12 months later, too academic for me.
But I stuck with the trade for about another few years, maybe longer. Then did a further 4 years retraining at college to be a furniture maker, done that since.
But Butcher yup. Retail, wholesale, boning plant, abattoir.
How about the avian flu passed as a result of intensive poultry farming? CJD via BSE & scrapie? Ring any bells, no?
No offence, well maybe a bit .... DOH.
Horrendous, but when youve millions of people to feed, and we all already know about the immorality of big business. So I suppose there the small trade butcher, who would work traditionally.
CJD was as we know the result of feeding remains of animals back to animals. The process did have 2 methods, but the one favoured caused the problem, and we later found out the other process wouldnt have. Bit of bad luck there, but as said, got to feed millions and big business has no soul. Never liked supermarkets selling meat. All hot boned and vac packed, Tried with 'safeway as what they call a meat 'improver' another joke. takes that personal community thing out of it.
Incidentally, worked for a guy on Skye, in Portree. He also owned his own farm with a large herd of which we used in the shop. the apprentice was a sheep farmer in his own right, even as a kid, and his father owned a sheep farm, again supplying the shop.
All their animals were sent to slaughter, because under EU and UK law all animals must be inspected postmortem, especially the organs.
You should see whats going on inside. Massive hidden injuries and they dont always show up in a visual examination.
Sick story.
In the back of Glasgow Abattoir examining a bull that came in for emergency slaughter. ****ing MASSIVE animal.
Hung up whole after the slaughterman shot/dressed it, we students all gather around to first incise the prescapular lymph node, which is tucked in behind the collar bone- should say t was some sort of chest issue brought it in.
Cut open that area and WHOOSH, hit what must have been a 10 gallons worth of pus, under some pressure and out it came covering everyone within 2' of it. lol.
You get cysts, bruising, lots of lung problems from living outdoors, quite a list as you can imagine or even the body being flushed with testosterone from the fear from being shot by some nut who thinks he's playing DeNiro's role in the DeerHunter in real life, and they're a deadly accurate crack shot. rendering it rather horrid to the taste. Pretty much all the nasty things go wrong with us, go wrong with animals. None of which is oblivious to the amateur.
Big business has caused many of these outbreaks. Look at foot and mouth that has cost billions. Far as anyone can tell it originated in Michigan, then through the intensive farming stockyards of Chicago and out across the world.
But the bottom line for me is there are too many variables in hunting animals for food if you dont need to, and as we are currently in the grip of, what happens when left to anybody without any rules or regulations.
Anyone slaughtering any animal should be inspecting the carcass, that should be perfectly obvious. But my point still stands, you are still able to catch something as a result of intensive farming, there is no silver bullet. And as I asked before, where do game butchers get their meat from?
I'm not convinced the covid jump was as easy as simply eating wild animals, there are a lot of other factors you seem to be ignoring not least animal welfare and hygiene practices.
I’d be quite content to see the grey population wiped out and replaced with the reds
At which point we'd probably declare them a pest, and history would repeat itself...
in 1903 the Highland Squirrel Club proudly announced the destruction of 82,000 Red Squirrels in the first 30 years of the club’s existence (Holm, 1987).
Now it might be me, but if you put the skwirril trap on the neighbours bird feeder....
I agree with stevious. Hasn't been pointed out explicitly, if the OP were successful in eradicating the grey squirrels from his patch (and I am not convinced he can be if there is a food source and pathway from a larger woodland but let's be hypothetical) then the food source is still there for other species (and domestic cats) that will fill that gap in the ecosystem. So you'll just get an increase in rats, crows, magpies, jays, woodpeckers etc. It is a very human trait, that we can't process the broad array of roles each species plays in the ecosystem, we have to pigeon-hole as 'good' or 'bad'. Many prey species are also omnivorous themselves, it is brutal but predation drives the ecology. And in the south, you aren't going to have red squirrels recover their old ground.
Konagirl - valid point and well made. A little more explanation from me might make it clearer.
There have always been squirrels in the trees behind us and they have always been a bit of a nuisance digging up what ever we plant in pots, raiding the bird feeders, killing birds but in the last two years the numbers we are seeing have probably trebled.
I believe that this is because rather than having perhaps 1 family in a drey and a few commuter squirrels we now have a number of families supported by the free food available. If we take out the squirrels living in the woods we will just have the commuter squirrels so the pest problem will be reduced.
We do have crows and magpies already which prey on the song birds but they seem to ignore the bird feeders so I don't see their numbers increasing dramatically by reducing the squirrels. Also, they don't destroy MrsWCAs plant pots.
Rats might increase but I think as the squirrel population reduces the neighbours will reduce their attempts to feed them and I don't think they will be keen on just feeding rats.
As you say, there is a balance in nature and human interventions cause rippling consequences. Stop pouring more free food into the ecc-system than the natural population requires and things should re-balance.
We do have crows and magpies already which prey on the song birds but they seem to ignore the bird feeders so I don’t see their numbers increasing dramatically by reducing the squirrels. Also, they don’t destroy MrsWCAs plant pots.
I’d imagine the corvids would be quite keen on some humanely killed squirrel, too, which might be easier pickings than songbird eggs?
However, an expert recently pointed out that everyone who shoots game is a criminal. The evidence is overwhelming. With facts like that, who could possibly argue?
A dig at me CFH?
Of course with driven grouse shooting its not the guns breaking the law but the organisers
A bit hard of reading today are we?
I actually agree with your point that shot game is likely to be good food.
I’d be quite content to see the grey population wiped out and replaced with the reds
At which point we’d probably declare them a pest, and history would repeat itself…
We already have, see the UK and EU legal stuff I referred to already. It's just a LOT harder to repeat those sorts of numbers without people reacting badly and that's before we even involve firearms.
You seem to have thought carefully about this, WCA, and I can't find anything in your reasoning to disagree with. I'm not an ecologist though!
I'm going to beat a similar drum, seeing as you've bought the thing now - ask for advice in how to place the device in order to prevent woodpeckers/pandas/human children getting done by your trap.
Oh and when I lived in NZ I saw a documentary about how they control possum numbers there and they use a very similar trap to that. The trappers hadn't realised how effective the trap would be and didn't visit the trap often enough. The footage of a possum climbing over a big pile of its dead mates to investigate the trap was ... interesting.
(I know you've said you'll keep an eye on the trap, am just saying for interest)
When I was at college a million years ago we were taught the humane way was live cage trap, into a hessian sack, head out, then pull it's neck. Or fertiliser bag with a few drops of some sort of toxic household detergent.
And by taught I mean here's the sack get on with it. Very vivid memories 😮
Alternative was air rifle barrel through the bars which inevitably they will try to eat.
Would be very impressed by anyone that could shoot and kill an uncaged one with one shot unless you were using a shotgun. Back in the day hoppers of Warfarin was an option. And poking the dreys with poles, but that may be a seasonal thing.
Would be very impressed by anyone that could shoot and kill an uncaged one with one shot unless you were using a shotgun.
They're not much smaller than a rabbit and far less timid.
Stevious - Here is the plan. Might even add a plywood collar/platform around the trunk to stop anything climbing up. Basically the only things getting to the trap will step off the top of the fence to the palm tree to investigate the trap. It will be too low for tree creeper type birds and too high for small children
And as I asked before, where do game butchers get their meat from?
Game dealers.
Last shop I was in that sold game got it far as im aware from the game dealer. To Be Honest, cant be expected to deal with all the aspects all the time. Mostly down here it only Xmas/new year and burns night anyone ever wants any venison
Theres a big one in Glen Etive, but again all are farmed animals for public consumption so are inspected. Been yonks since I've needed any of this so i look it up. Yeah EEC regulations covering Wild Game Meat from 1995
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1995/2148/made
If you insist on continuing your 'Chinese wet market' approach to feeding the family, can you at least take note of areas to look at and maybe pay more attention there.
If you must pop Bugs one in the head, take a read at problems rabbits face and the diseases to watch out for, look at the lungs, the liver, see if anything looks off or distended. Same after skinning, check the flesh for abscessing.
eg
When you sprain your ankle it swells up. when you look at such injuries postmortem the damaged area is almost jelly like, where lymph has rushed to protect that area. So if you see areas like that its a sign theres been a recent injury to the animal. And I'd expect most to have injuries of one sort of another. This type of thing you cut out and bin, preferably in the fire. With a rabbit/squirrel, most things you can look at as 4 quarters. Any damage on any of those quarters, discard that entire quarter.
Nobody is saying you cannot inspect it yourself, it is a subject that can be learned in under two years. But books for the animals you hunt you'd pick it up pretty quick i reckon.
It is a bit of a double edged sword knowing though, you pick your food to bits looking for possible contaminate 😆
I'd just like something that will protect my son's newly-planted courgettes, tomatoes, beans, strawberries and cucumbers when they appear in a couple of months' time. And stop the little sods nibbling all the plums off our tree!
So you’ll just get an increase in rats, crows, magpies, jays, woodpeckers etc. It is a very human trait, that we can’t process the broad array of roles each species plays in the ecosystem, we have to pigeon-hole as ‘good’ or ‘bad’. Many prey species are also omnivorous themselves, it is brutal but predation drives the ecology. And in the south, you aren’t going to have red squirrels recover their old ground.
Squirrels are a different niche in the ecosystem, removing them isn’t likely to result in increasing numbers of the other creatures you mention, although other than rats and crows, I don’t think an increase in numbers of jays or woodpeckers would cause anyone sleepless nights, neither are common anywhere.
I think that trap will be pretty effective in dealing with rats too, though? (More tasty snacks for the corvids)
I also didn’t think the point of the exercise was to let reds back in, in this case; if it was the planned trap would be no use.
They do a smaller version for rats and mice but the same principle. The bigger one I have ordered will work on rats, it will just make them even deader than the little one.
There is no chance of getting red squirrels back here at the moment. I just want to save our flower pots and little cute birdies.
We do have wood peckers, both green and lesser spotted (which we spot more often) which is why I read up on the trap and the fact it does not seem to affect them but I am still siting the trap to minimise the chances.
I don’t think an increase in numbers of jays or woodpeckers would cause anyone sleepless nights,
Both species are taking bee grubs as over-winter food though (and there's been a proportional increase in their populations accordingly), so if you're keen on increasing honey bee populations, and I think we've all noticed the vast amount of articles and reportage about declining bee numbers, then controlling Jays and Woodpeckers is probably part of the solution...
This conservation m'larky...It's not at all as straightforward as many would have it...
I ran one over yesterday on my No Gnar evening ride. My dog flushed it out and it went under my wheels whilst darting for a tree.
I've been mountain biking for 25 years and that is the second time I have hit a squirrel. I don't think my efforts are going to help cull the species.
I remember years ago on a solo night ride racing down a trail when a badger ran out in front of me and then ran down the trail just in front of my front wheel weaving from side to side until it clipped the wheel throwing me over the bars. I was laid dazed on the ground and could just hear the snuffling of a badger nearby. I wasn't sure if it was laughing at me or planning to eat me so I got up and walked my broken bike back home
I've just spotted one of the b*at*rds in my garden. We've been borderline between red and Grey's in my time here.
Pass me a shotgun...
..
I’d just like something that will protect my son’s newly-planted courgettes, tomatoes, beans, strawberries and cucumbers when they appear in a couple of months’ time. And stop the little sods nibbling all the plums off our tree
Maybe you need to start feeding the squirrels 😉 I feed ours peanuts - they come to the back door begging - but the only veg they've ever been interested in is a few leaves off the Brussel sprouts. They don't seem to touch strawberries, raspberries, courgettes, onions etc.
One thing that's been over looked- this WCA setting traps. What injuries do we foresee?
I will set the bloody trap. 3rd time lucky
One thing that’s been over looked- this WCA setting traps. What injuries do we foresee?
Nothing can possibly go wrong until the gas cylinder is in place…
We had an electrician that unwittingly stuck his hand into a squirrel trap that had been left under insulation in a loft.
It was a trap called a Kania 2000 which has a spring that's probably strong enough to kill a bear.
He lost his pinky and his ring finger and degloved his middle finger.
Be careful out there.
There should be a tube leading up to the trap if it is properly placed, especially things like the Kania to stop things like that happening.
Anyway, it is being delivered tomorrow so we will see how it goes.
We’ll need pictures, you know.
They will be forthcoming
