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Can I just ask… has anyone ever actually seen a woman wearing a full burka in the UK?
Now and then in Manchester, but as other say mainly veil or niqab. We have quite a lot of muslims where I work and many of the women wear niqab. It seemed to be a regular thing a while ago that most would wear traditional dress on a Friday which I always found quite jolly, but that seems to have been assigned to special days like Eid.
The other half of the Brexit tag team has chipped in. Farage has said that Borises comments 'strike a chord with most of the country'.
Well... only really the racist ones Nige. But he then noted that it will definitely be appealing to Tory Party members and this makes it more likely that Boris will be the next PM. Well, what a purely coincidental piece of luck for Boris eh? Who'd have thunk it?
he really is a vile, self-serving opportunistic shit, isn't he?
As Baroness Warsi pointed out when she pointed out that this will just increase hate crime by legitimising casual racism. Not that he'll give a toss about that
Dominic Grieve has just said if Boris becomes PM he'll leave the party. I suspect he wouldn't be the only one.
Wouldn't it be great if he finally got his lifelong wish/destiny/entitlement and it ended up causing the split that will destroy the Tory party? There'd certainly be a poetic justice to that. The ****!!
Boris was born in New York,could he be a Trump love child? 🙂
You could easily argue that women who cover themselves up are more enlightened and empowered than those who don’t, and if that is the case, what does it say about the cultures that encourage these particular styles of dress?
It's a fair point, but you also have to bear in mind that this style of clothing originates (mostly) in countries that have a very poor track record of women's rights and while a woman may, indeed choose to hide herself away from the rest of us, isn't there a possibility that she's doing it because of a cultural obligation towards a society that considers women in a very different (and, IMHO, quite negative) way to how we would in the West.
In short, while I recognise and respect the right of people to dress how they want, such extreme styles are not necessarily dictated by how women wish to dress, but more to how their own (male-oriented) culture thinks they should dress and the two are very different things indeed.
Can I just ask… has anyone ever actually seen a woman wearing a full burka in the UK
frequently
I was so offended by Boris Johnson's ignorant comments about the Burka, I decided to write him a strongly worded letter.
But when I tried to post it, the letterbox screamed at me.
I think Boris is an utter knob but that did make me laugh when I read it this morning, in a topical kind of way not a Muslim hating Tory kind of way before the pitchforks get directed at me!
So remind me which of these is it acceptable to mock?
It's getting confusing these days...
Nothing can be exempt from mockery in a free society. How you personally view the mockery and your reaction ought to be your free choice.
I think that when looking for sage advice on this subject we need to look to the authority on such matters....
”never, NEVER criticise Muslims! Only, only Christians. And Jews..... a bit”
Sadly this kind of press is just what Johnson wanted.
As for seeing women in burkas, occasionally but none recently that spring to mind .We often have Saudi students on exchange in our lab, a couple have worn ave niqabs, most just hijabs, it's a bit harder to gauge someone at first with a veil, but they like Game of Thrones like anyone else & mock our inability to cope with weather above 30°C.
Sadly this kind of press is just what Johnson wanted.
Yep, it’s sowing a seed in the ‘brains’ of a section of the public that respond to a bit of casual racism. Seeing as their ‘brains’ are largely made out of shit, they are fertile ground for such a seed.
So remind me which of these is it acceptable to mock?
I'd be a bit careful about mocking that Ninja, they have swords and throwing stars
It’s not unusual to see a lady dressed in a burka around here as we have a reasonable large ****stani community. Even more so if you head to Keighley or Bradford. Can’t say it bothers me in the slightest.
My only comment would be that it seems a shame as many of these women are very attractive, striking and beautiful. I guess that’s the point though.
My only comment would be that it seems a shame as many of these women are very attractive, striking and beautiful.
Oh aye, & how do YOU know?
So remind me which of these is it acceptable to mock?
The first two.
1. Fake beard
2. Neck beard
3. Only one with a proper beard
I wonder what the reaction would be if a prominent member of the House of Saud, for eg, said something mocking & disparaging about vicars & priests in dog collars?
I doubt it’d go unnoticed....
You should be allowed to mock whoever or what ever you want, as long as it isn’t inciting to violence or anything illegal.
Its the joy of living in a free society.
Why shouldn’t we mock them ? We mock Jesus, we mock scousers and brummies, plus a whole host of other types / colours/ backgrounds etc etc.....
I’m bald with a beard , im going to get overly offended and demand respect the next time someone says I’ve got my head on upside down !!!!
You should be allowed to mock whoever or what ever you want,
You are allowed to. But that doesn't mean that everyone else has to applaud you for doing so, or vote for you. Johnson behaved like a nasty little racist arse. That is his right. But others don't have to accept it as appropriate behaviour.
My only comment would be that it seems a shame as many of these women are very attractive, striking and beautiful.
Seems a shame to who and why ?
You should be allowed to mock whoever or what ever you want
Useful phrase from comedy: Don't kick down
My only comment would be that it seems a shame as many of these women are very attractive, striking and beautiful.
Never before in the field of STW comment were so many issues conflated by so few words.
Good comedian can do all the jokes they want on any Subject.
Politicians writting in national newspapers, not so much. Especially one with a not so hidden agenda.
<p>I look forward to the next "imaginary friend" thread from the forum that brought you tolerance and an end to bigotry.</p><p></p><p>LOL</p>
Seems a shame to me because I like looking at attractive women. The point being that one of the reasons they do cover up is to stop apes like me gawping at them. Why so hard to understand?
Seems a shame to me because I like looking at attractive women. The point being that one of the reasons they do cover up is to stop apes like me gawping at them. Why so hard to understand?
It's easy to understand why you said it now you have explained it.
What if they are not attractive?
What if covering up is nothing to do with stopping stone age man looking at them?
Aren’t the complaints now being taken to an independent tribunal ??
BBCNews is reporting such..
Hope it’s a tribunal that kicks him out of the Party..
Hope it’s a tribunal that kicks him out of the Party.
Or if enough of his constituents sign the petition to force a by election, they could then deselect him for that.
It may not even be solely about modesty. If you are a recent immigrant to any country and feel isolated and unsure of yourself, maybe this could be a way of providing some mental distance between the world and you.
Aren’t the complaints now being taken to an independent tribunal
Madness isn't it. Boris steps up and says he doesn't think Burka's should be banned and we should have open honest debate about it. He quite evidently doesn't think women should wear them, but he wouldn't ban them sounds quite forward thinking to me rather than other countries that have just banned them without any thought or public vote.
Of course the words he used were inflammatory, it got the response he wanted, and has got everyone talking about him. Like him or loath him he's got the PC brigade on here right in the palm of his hand.
Again I think very few people have read / heard the full article and are making very ill informed comments out of context. (link earlier in the thread is not the full document)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bd6y62
Anna Sourby Tweeted yesterday:
Dominic Grieve is right. I believe many One Nation Tories would not stay in the Conservative Party should Boris Johnson become leader. That was my public view some time ago! I also believe Dominic speaks for many millions of people who despair at the state of both main parties.
Wouldn't it be great if Boris got his wish, only to destroy the Tory party?
Pretty good article in the Guardian today, stating the bleeding obvious
Boris Johnson is auditioning to lead a grim, insular Britain
He's just doubling down on his shameless Brexit stand of pandering to racists and couldn't give a toss about the consequences, as long as he gets what he wants
Madness isn’t it. Boris steps up and says he doesn’t think Burka’s should be banned and we should have open honest debate about it.
Well he pulled the Burka over your eyes didn't he.....
He deliberately made offensive comments about how people looked in his article, carefully balancing it with the discussion but had to go in with the insulting comment to get a rise and make him a hero of the right.
It should 100% be investigated.
It stands with a long line of racist language he has used to describe people all over the world.
Like him or loath him he’s got the PC brigade on here right in the palm of his hand.
It would be if it wasn't leading to his own party disowning him, threats of serious resignations if he makes leader.
and seriously WTF do you mean by PC brigade, do you mean people who chose not to be offensive ****s in newspapers?
he’s got the PC brigade on here right in the palm of his hand.
He really doesn’t. He’s got people that like to use weak-minded phrases like “PC Brigade” right in the palm of his hand. I hope you’re happy in there - lovely company to keep I’m sure.
I despair sometimes.
If I wasn’t on the moral high ground I occupy I really would be in bits and give up.
As is I reckon the lying fatuous oaf should be brought into question, question his morals and his actions.
Hope this tribunal brings all his actions to the for... We can rejoice at the ignominy of it all and he can shrink into his own flappy suit.
As for the article, yeas of course we’ve read it. The full text has been viewed and commented on Plenty in here.
Take what he says in context and it’s definitely a debate to be had.
No question.
mikewsmith/deadlydarcy
There is a huge amount of racism in this country, don't just be blinkered to think that it is people who vote for right wing conservatives.
Until people are willing to share their views in public then communities will continue to be divided.
Just shouting someone down and wagging a finger at them does not solve the issues, it just hides them under the carpet so we can all carry on in ignorant bliss.
Brexit, Trump, Windrush, Johnson - all parts of the same trajectory, I'm afraid.
And it is one we must guard against.
This is about UKIP members attacking a bookshop. The response to send the UKIP thugs some reading matter will bring chortles in circles where clever slights are the preferred means of winning an argument. All well and good, but when someone just punches you in the face anyway for 'being clever', what's the point?
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/aug/09/ukip-members-bookshop-attack-bookmarks
😀
And as if by magic, I happen across this...
Well, there’s a massive surprise eh? The “Tory grassroots” are delighted with Johnson’s commentary - confirming what we all know - they really do have a problem with islamophobia - not that we’ll hear that much about it.
Nor do we hear much from our STW contingent of Christian swivel-eyed Tory/Brexit/quitling apologists - some of whom were happy to defend the islamophobic campaign enthusiastically waged by Zac Goldsmith when he had nothing else left to offer against Sadiq Khan.
Funny how they’ll drop in to shit their pants about anti-semitism but their silence is telling on this one.
What if covering up is nothing to do with stopping stone age man looking at them?
Except it is, or at least appears to be according to the Quran:-
O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
So clearly women are 'ordered' by a man to dress down and cover up to prevent being letched upon and abused by Stone Age men....well men from the Middle Ages really who apparently couldn't help themselves if they saw a woman. So now being abused by a man is a sin of a woman's in the eyes of Allah if they are 'dressing provocatively' and not covered up. She deserved it apparently. Nice - so men created a rule putting all the responsibility of abuse onto women and the women have been convinced it's a good thing....only religion can instil such nonsense in otherwise intelligent people.
There is a huge amount of racism in this country, don’t just be blinkered to think that it is people who vote for right wing conservatives..
Very true but this is all about context as pointed out.
Borris has made a judgement (probably following his chat with Bannon) that in order to have a shot at leadership/PM he needs to have a little Martyr moment to make May do something.
If it results in a leadership challenge his calculations are that he needs the racist/right wing/Swivel eyed loons in his camp for a vote.
The rest of the racists/bigots are who are not members of the Tory party do not matter at this point - he needs the members attention..
If he gets this he can open himself up as the man of the people and appeal to a bigger cross section of people who don't like immigrants or differences.
Just shouting someone down and wagging a finger at them does not solve the issues, it just hides them under the carpet so we can all carry on in ignorant bliss.
It appears there is much more than finger wagging going on here.
Hes got the grassroots conservative tory party members eating right out of<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> t</span>h<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">e palm of his hand.</span>
His reasonable attitude toward the Burka & Denmark was deliberayely (this was for a newspaper column that he sat down to write, not some off the cuff comments in the middle of a debate) spiked with some mocking phrases to ilicit the response he wamted:
So he can claim to be oppressed as its all 'PC gone mad' ignoring the fact that hes giving license to those who heard his dog whistle to stir up islamaphobia.
& of course get his base all fired up, for his leadership bid.
Its no coincidence this came a short a while after he met Steve Bannon
Seems a shame to me because I like looking at attractive women. The point being that one of the reasons they do cover up is to stop apes like me gawping at them. Why so hard to understand?
Read my post on the previous page. You are grossly over-simplifying this and making the (very great) assumption that this is a simple matter of choice. It's far more complicated than this and very much entwined with the history of how women have been treated in the middle east for many years.
There is a huge amount of racism in this country, don’t just be blinkered to think that it is people who vote for right wing conservatives.
I realise that the opportunity to wee on the “STW PC Brigade” probably gave you at least a semi, if not a full on raging tumescence, but if you could stop for a moment and direct me to where I said that?
Usual suspects in a tizz on here. As usual.
Will be ace when he becomes pm. Some of you lot will implode.
Top entertainment.
Here Boris, why don't you resign and go and make a tit of yourself for a bit, deflect some of these brexit headlines....
<p><p>So the women that choose to wear it, for whatever reason, are being oppressed. Despite some being on record as having husbands who either don't care or would prefer if they didn't.</p><p>All those women in Denmark protesting against the ban on wearing Burqas must be wrong too.</p><p></p><p>Good job you guys are all here to explain it to the poor dears.</p></p>
Will be ace when he becomes pm. Some of you lot will implode.
By the looks of it, it'll be the Tory party that does the imploding.
Bring it on! Boris for PM!!! 😀