The same could be said to those travelling to a local trail centre or going to wales for a weekend of riding. People need to relax and realise everyone is different and will do and want to do different stuff.
Only if you share transport with a couple of hundred other people on the way there
On holiday right now. I was concerned about flying but the plane was at most half full - probably safer than taking the tube. Heathrow was very quiet.
Now I'm here I'm not going inside anywhere, not into cafes, not eating out, choosing quiet beaches, one quick shop in a small supermarket. I'm safer myself here than I am at home and I'm doing my best to not be the one who brings infection here.
That’ll be the same youngsters who are the primary care, retail, pub and cafe workers on zero hours contracts and on the job loss front line and generally living in expensive rentals being tutted at by all the retirees, by to let landlords and safely working from home bods. Can’t really blame them myself.
This. Nobody gave much of a shit for youngsters when they triple locked pensions, began tuition fees etc etc etc.
On holiday right now. I was concerned about flying but the plane was at most half full – probably safer than taking the tube.
Interesting study on air recirculation in vehicles and covid.
https://twitter.com/AliNouriPhD/status/1301706435429117952
TL:DR It's not about the distance between you and your fellow travellers, if someone has it at the front of the vehicle, it can be evenly distributed all around the passenger compartment.
We went to Norfolk and socially distanced. The trip to Colorado is on hold. Son2 missed his trip to Japan.
Three of us are flying to Northern Ireland on Friday and I will be driving Son2 to Ireland for his University course. He will self-isolate in-hall for 14 days (but does not officially have to from NI) with his classmates from Spain and Scotland. We are staying in an isolated cabin for one night (avoiding all contacts including the owner!) then returning via Northern Ireland. I would be happy to self-isolate on return and work from home, should the quarantine situation change.
Norfolk was lovely - obvs not as nice as Devon (God's own county), but very pleasant.
Only if you share transport with a couple of hundred other people on the way there
No, but you're still doing something that isnt essential and you will be with a few hundred people when you get there none from your own house hold. i feel like you missed my point but oh well. have a nice day.
100% agree with this! I’ve done one or two shifts delivering groceries in the Caerphilly area and pretty much every 3rd one was a load of booze and party food, a few I’ve interrupted the parties! Been the same in Cardiff but not as prevalent with no students here yet, the older generations are carrying on though. The spread is happening for one main reason: irresponsible socialising.
Yep, Cardiff City centre is supposedly looking a lot like it did pre-covid, bars are packed, Social Distancing largely ignored.
The Police say they don't have the numbers to tackle it, they're still flat out with the usual public order stuff, it's up to the Bars to ensure they're compliant, which up to now they're not. It took a big spike and people flooding Social Media with videos for them to act, 6 of the big bars have got until tomorrow to sort their shit out, or they're being closed down, I just don't think it can be done. I mean we're talking about the same kind of people who buy plugs for seatbelts so they can drive without them out, without the warning bells going off, it's THAT level of stupid we're dealing with.
I went on 13 foreign holidays last year, so suffice to say I love travelling.
Since lockdown has eased, we had a brief thought of a week in the alps, but a quick think about the risks both to us and others, made it a no brainer to stay at home this year.
The places I want to go will still be there in a couple of years when this is under control (assuming a vaccine is available by then)
I mean we’re talking about the same kind of people who buy plugs for seatbelts so they can drive without them out
WTAF
Just wait until the 1m+ people move around the country this week, mixing from all areas of the UK, Europe and beyond.
Yes, I am talking about universities, and yes my family is one of them.
you will be with a few hundred people when you get there none from your own house hold
Can you really not see that being outside in the fresh air where it's easy to social distance is completely different to sitting on a plane with air con circulating round?
Aye, there's always been "fresher's flu"
Can you really not see that being outside in the fresh air where it’s easy to social distance is completely different to sitting on a plane with air con circulating round?
But thats not my point. For some people travel is their thing much like riding a bike for the majority here. You can't bemoan people for going on holiday when they could likely do the same for something you yourself are doing. Is going on holiday essential no, is travelling to ride a mountain bike essential no... you can just ride a bike from your front door.
The risks maybe less (outdoors and such) but the risk is still there (stopping for petrol, touching the parking meter, visiting the trail shop) and if zero covid is the plan and we all must bee good citizens all we should be doing is going to the shops for food as little as possible and exercising as little as possible from home. There is a lot of grey area and everyones is different.
I mean we’re talking about the same kind of people who buy plugs for seatbelts so they can drive without them out,
My neighbour has one of these. Coincidently, she thinks face masks restrict your breathing, so she wears a visor for work.
if zero covid is the plan and we all must bee good citizens all we should be doing is going to the shops for food as little as possible and exercising as little as possible from home
Yes I'm already doing all that. So what you're saying is that some people are better citizens/less selfish than others? I agree.
Travelling might be their thing
But cycling does not involvr travel to airports, full of randoms, sitting on a plane, full of randoms quietly hoping the hepa filters go down to. 1 micron
Getting on a greek transfer coach that had had 100 randoms on it already that day
Or i put on my bike gear, go ride bike in open countryside and woodland areas and can stay 100mtr from everyone
Biking is my thing, holidibobs isnt
I dont get the mentality of having to go away like it is essential and bad things will happen if you dont. Maybe people think being awaybin a warm sunny place makes you covid immune
I would not do it. But I can't consider it negligent or selfish, when it's being encouraged by governments.
Further on the blaming of young people, stats for England in the last 2 weeks split by age group on a recent BBC article. More people over 30 than under 30 testing positive. So I'm calling politically motivated bullshit on the claims that only young people are the problem. Everyone needs to take more responsibility themselves and cast less blame around.
I live for my holidays usually taking 2 or 3 a year often one to europe. this year I have had one in a quiet part of scotland. Its no excuse. risk is cumulative so every time you take a risk you increase the cumulative risk.
There is a lot of grey area and everyones is different.
Getting on a plane and breathing the same air as another 100-300 people for several hours isn't grey at all, its a high risk environment.
Going for a ride on your own in the countryside isn't grey either, its a very low risk environment.
I really don't see how you can equate the two.
I dont get the mentality of having to go away like it is essential and bad things will happen if you dont
I don't really understand it either, but as I've said in previous threads, we are all in different mental health spaces. For some folk it's way more important than it is for others. It's not fair to simply dismiss others perceptions as irrelevant.
Quite surprised by the breadth of responses on here. My view is that if Cummings can do what he did then others have a carte blanche to do whatever TF they want really.
That's a lame copout and you know it. ^^^^
Yes I’m already doing all that. So what you’re saying is that some people are better citizens/less selfish than others? I agree.
To be honest i didn't expect a different response thats easy to say over the internet. But, its not about being selfish its about doing what you think is best and not passing judgement on others.
Getting on a plane and breathing the same air as another 100-300 people for several hours isn’t grey at all, its a high risk environment.
Going for a ride on your own in the countryside isn’t grey either, its a very low risk environment.
I really don’t see how you can equate the two.
two words. Up. Lift. Many are not riding on their own, myself included.
Im not equating the two as the same at all. Everything has higher risk than others thats all im saying. As i sit here with a broken hand after a weekend out on bikes potentially riding bikes wasn't the wisest decision i could make during a pandemic.
Im simply saying you and anyone else may be partaking in activities that others deem negligent and its not for you to pass judgment on what others do. Is riding a bike in a pandemic doing a dangerous sport negligent? Try looking at it that way.
We drove to the french alps for 2 weeks biking this summer and loved it. Did feel like I was doing anything wrong? No, no one at the UK border coming back even asked where we had been which I thought was odd because Spain was on the quarantine list at the time but not France so clearly UK border force weren’t interested about it.
The bit I really struggle with is that healthcare workers are exempt from doing quarantine! I even have a letter informing me that I am exempt. Surely healthcare workers working in hospitals would be top of the list of occupations you would want to quarantine before the return to work.
Careful Chrismac, with comments like that you risk being called negligent and selfish. There are groups of people who seem to expect us to just sit at home with the lights off until this thing blows over totally ironing the mental health implications that will have.
The bit I really struggle with is that healthcare workers are exempt from doing quarantine! I even have a letter informing me that I am exempt.
I really thought this was over now? Partner works for the NHS too and was told if she goes on holiday she would still have to isolate.
Getting on a plane and breathing the same air as another 100-300 people for several hours isn’t grey at all, its a high risk environment.
Plenty of sourses state that their HEPA air filters take out viruses.
My Spanish rental Villa has been full all summer and is pretty low risk, guests drove here and all live together as a family, find quiet beaches and shop individually, or so they tell me.
I have them all on whatsapp so that's contact tracing taken care off.
Oth I go to uk soon and have to stay in 2 weeks, ok fair enough, will do. The problem is the bars in the spanish towns, they re packed and no-one wears a mask as they are drinking. No way I d ever go in, it's an outbreak waiting to happen.
We went to the southern alps for two weeks beginning of August via tunnel, was booked last december and advice was that its ok to travel so we weighed up the risks and decided that we could probably social distance easy enough over there in a very quiet location compared to what some places were like here in the summer. I would have lost a fair bit of money if we hadn't gone and that's not something i have a lot of so we took all the risks on board and off we went. Had to isolate when home for 14 days which we thought may happen but was easy enough in the end. We don't go to pubs or socialise in big groups at home so I don't believe I can be classed as negligent when you see some of the things happening in some of the cities and towns over here with bars pubs and tourist areas heaving with people, mass protests with no social distancing at all. Idiots will be idiots no matter what country they are in.
To answer OP’s question
YES
Going on a holiday, travelling around during a pandemic is jus plain stupid.
Isn't the question 'Promoting travel without adopting adequate border testing & tracing..... negligence?'
Where I've just travelled to has a comprehensive border testing programme and has very little community transmission as a result. Almost all current cases are imported.
I mean we’re talking about the same kind of people who buy plugs for seatbelts so they can drive without them out
I mean surely they're not legal to be sold in the UK?
*checks interwebs*
Oh.
OH!
That's a special kind of stupid.
squirrelking
I mean surely they’re not legal to be sold in the UK?
*checks interwebs*
Oh.
OH!
Well that beeping noise can be bloody distracting, trying to open a beer and steer with your knees at 90mph is difficult enough as it is without that racket going on. 🙄
Greater Glasgow has 43 cases per 100k last week. Almost anywhere in England has lower cases.
Probably higher than most of Europe lower as well.
Just need one of these to go with the bottle opener.
Plenty of sourses state that their HEPA air filters take out viruses.
That's only going to work well if everyone is using a fitted breathing mask and all expired air is passed through a filter....
The negligence is on the government
They are adamant it's ok to go then change the goal posts.
The rehtoric should be essential travel only if they really want to contain anything.
It seems to me like they are changing goal posts Willey niley and it's those that follow the guidance that it's ok to go because gov said so .....that are being made to pay.
Can't blame them not everyone has the ability to see a bigger picture.
Further on the blaming of young people, stats for England in the last 2 weeks split by age group on a recent BBC article. More people over 30 than under 30 testing positive.
Given that there are getting on for twice as many people over 30 than under... I'm not quite sure what your point is.
Oh, I've got one of those seatbelt things. The sensor in the Mazda is a bit keen and thinks my curry needs to put a seatbelt on for the ride home from the shop.
It seems to me like they are changing goal posts Willey niley and it’s those that follow the guidance that it’s ok to go because gov said so …..that are being made to pay.
Can’t blame them not everyone has the ability to see a bigger picture.
While I do agree with this in some sense, i do think there comes a point when we have to get busy living rather than busy dying. We can't just sit inside for the next 12/18 months in the hope a vaccine solves all our problem by then the damage to the economy would likely terminal everyone would be on food stamps and not a single shop would survive. Its about a balance and thats what we are in now.
IF the decision was lets shut everything and sit inside essential the gov' need to go fully socialist support those who can't support themselves (which would basically be everyone by the end of it and likely set up universal basic income) as without people out and about spending unemployment will rocket even more. Its such tough balance keep people a live vs keep the country ticking over so the recession doesn't get even worse... best it yet to come to a double covid / brexit recession.
I think we are in tough and stressful time and its causing people to react to stuff they wouldn't normally react to. To say people are stupid, selfish or negligent because they want a holiday is a massive over reaction. And like i have said countless partaking in a dangerous sport such as mountain biking could also be seen as selfish or negligent, but you know people don't want to look at their own actions.
Here's an article mirroring what @trail_rat said:
I'm in agreement. The government have taken every opportunity to place the blame in as many places as possible (eg replacing PHE with NIHP), whilst encouraging everyone to do their bit to help the economy by getting back to work/school/play.
It’s an incredibly hard balancing act – I can only imagine with dread what a labour gov would have done when put under pressure by all the trade unions
It must be even harder after 11 u-turns and a stint in hospital. Poor Boris struggled with the social distancing himself, didn't he? Shaking hands relentlessly. Infected his pregnant girlfriend (fiancee?) too. I'm sure the current gov have come under literally no pressure from party donors. Or given valuable contracts to their mates?
I dread to think how many more people may die (more than the 50k or so who have sadly lost their lives) at the hands of the current government when it kicks off again.
Further on the blaming of young people, stats for England in the last 2 weeks split by age group on a recent BBC article. More people over 30 than under 30 testing positive.
I imagine the concern is not lots of young people getting covid, which is perceived as low risk and would actually help with building herd immunity - the concern is the under 30s are passing on to the over 30s, which then is likely to create high healthcare demand and more deaths. I don't have any evidence this is exactly what is happening, but I suspect TT&T/PHE do have some basis for the claims, and certainly the data is not inconsistent with that problem.
Careful Chrismac, with comments like that you risk being called negligent and selfish. There are groups of people who seem to expect us to just sit at home with the lights off until this thing blows over totally ironing the mental health implications that will have
Literally no one has ever said that.
As someone who has clinical depression I'm well aware of the mental health issues thanks. I'm also aware of the mental health implications of going out into a world full of people who seem to not give a shit, when my partner is in the highest risk category and could die because someone fancied a holiday.
Given that there are getting on for twice as many people over 30 than under… I’m not quite sure what your point is.
Point is that it's not ONLY young people behaving irresponsibly. And going further, it's frankly ridiculous to say to young people "don't be irresponsible, you'll kill your gran" and "it's fine to go out on the lash and go to work, we need to get the economy going again" in the same bloody press release!
