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Can someone have a quiet word with Hora please? Thanks.
BTW, Hora; where's ma money, bitch? 👿
mastiles fanylion
But we all have the right to move to get to the better schools.
Try doing so if you live in council / social housing.
mastiles_fanylion
But we all have the right to move to get to the better schools.
That was not possible for most families. The point I am making is when you said
Surely we DO all have access to the same educational and health resources
I have seen this is not the case. I and my colleagues from other near by schools were in a position to see how different the schools could be.
Just to be clear, I do not favour once party or the other but did work in enough schools in the area to see that the students were not given equal educational resources.
Look at cold hard stats about social mobility in this country and you see the reality.
THIS is the point.
The Tory position is to spout this rhetorical nonsense whilst systematically removing the means by which social mobility can be achieved.
What really, really scares me is that it's being peddled to whole new generation that appears to be completely ignorant of what happened to this country merely a generation ago.
Can't believe no-one's yet mentioned that Thatchler's in a [u]private[/u] hospital...
Try doing so if you live in council / social housing.
I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it is difficult (bordering on impossible) - all I have ever done here is state the fact the right is there.
Can't believe no-one's yet mentioned that Thatchler's in a private hospital...
we're all allowed to use that you know 😆
Back to the topic. I blame Thatcher for a lot of ill doings.
Her and the abolition of the eleven plus.
Okay then - take a group of people who are happy with their lives - they don't have to be rich, just content.
Ask them who they "blame" for their happiness - it will be thanks their own positive outlook on life, and almost always, a good supportive family. In some cases, many will be content even if seemingly being dealt a bad "hand."
Now do the a similar group of people who are deeply unhappy - in some cases the reason for their discontent will be some horrible disaster. For the rest they will simply blame everyone else for their state of mind - the government, their boss, anyone.
almost always, a good supportive family
so if they're not blessed with that?
there is the equality, but some people do not take advantage of the opportunity.
no they do not have the financial resources to take advantage of the rights they have. They cannot in rewality tajke advantage of the right can they? I gave you the example of Oxbridge we all have an equal right to go there yet they freely choose to select a disproportionate number from Private schoools - that we all have the right to go to but most of us cannot afford the fees etc
There is no legal discrimination at work here but you cannot really be claiming that in reality is that we all have an equal opportunity to go to Oxbridge as the actual reality does not match this perception - more richer people's go than poorer peoples Ditto houses and nice areas etc.
It is not equal but no one is banned from doing it they are just incapable financially- is there really much diference between being banned from doing something and not being able in reality ?
excellent we have the right to dso that which is virtually inmpossible unless you are rich in which case it is very easy. Semms fair to me 🙄
Kids kept you up you seem more argumentative than usual?
so if they're not blessed with that?
They'll still manage fine and be happy.
Just like the late Bobby McFerrin said.
Try doing so if you live in council / social housing.
The whole point of bettering yourself is that you become less dependent on the state.
However someone who pays £45 a week rent yet works will NEVER want to leave such a cushy home number that has all the maintanence etc paid for.
All the hard worker folk however get on with it, move to where the work is and pay through the nose in mortgage/insurance policies etc etc to help support the economy.
There will always be those that will sit in one area and say 'can't' and given many reasons.
For the rest of us, we were brought up knowing no one should owe you a living.
Latest report says social housing is desperately needed and running out of space. Part of this problem is due to saying 'yes do whatever you want/underachieve and over populate (the more they breed the more new council houses will be required) at others expense'.
mastiles_fanylion - Member2Try doing so if you live in council / social housing."
I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it is difficult (bordering on impossible) - all I have ever done here is state the fact the right is there.
Thats the point. It is not equality of opportunity if some groups have barriers that other groups do not.
Living in London - when we first moved there we lived in an expensive bedsit and the girl I lived alongside moaned about her council 2bed flat in Notting hill that she was slyly trying to rent out.
They'll still manage fine and be happy.
You know, over the last 20 yrs or so we've fostered 24 kids [& adopted one of them] if you really think that the bulk of those kids have the same opportunities as you [or I] have/had, I think you must live on the moon
You're that dense, I really don't think I'll bother responding any more to you - bye
Since Hora's turned up, I've pretty much lost interest in this thread tbh. The sun is shining, and life's too short to waste arguing with the likes of Surf-Mat and Hora, over the faults of society. Bit like trying to ride yer bike with busted tyres....
All the hard worker folk however get on with it, move to where the work is and pay through the nose in mortgage/insurance policies etc etc to help support the economy.
Actually, if you spend all your money on mortgage and insurance you're doing fkall to "help the econony "because these are financial services and provide very little in the way of employment. Spending your money on fast cars, booze and smokes which are manufactured goods will provide work in the manufacturing sector, which needs supplies and distribution so create more distribution of wealth. So people should be encouraged to stay in cheap rented accomodation and spend all they save.
if you really think that the bulk of those kids have the same opportunities as you [or I] have/had,
but that was down to their own ****up parents/parenting skill-void.
However someone who pays £45 a week rent yet works will NEVER want to leave such a cushy home number that has all the maintanence etc paid for.
Some points
Mnost probably cannot afford to leave as they are on low wages
The rent is more than £45 per week
What is wrong with renting most on the continent do this.It aids social and worker mobility, transfer wealth from the poor to the rich and give you a flexible workforce thought you would be excitec by that proposition.
I assume you have loads of mates in council houses eh
hora - Member"if you really think that the bulk of those kids have the same opportunities as you [or I] have/had, "
but that was down to their own **** parents/parenting skill-void.
True to some extent but it still means the child does not have equality of opportunity.
Surf-Mat I'm hoping your reference to Bobby McFerrin (with his historical opposition to right wing politics) is a nod to the well crafted troll you've displayed here, and not further evidence of ignorance?
but that was down to their own **** parents/parenting skill-void.
go on then, father dead, mother in latter stages of terminal cancer - what did they do wrong
no they do not have the financial resources to take advantage of the rights they have.
Will you stop bringing it back to financial ability - I have stated my point and I fully accept some people cannot afford this and that and the other - that is always going to happen as we can't all be equally well off and have identical lives. But walk into a hospital in inner city Glasgow or a well off suburb in London and you will still get the treatment you need without having to pay for it.
I have stated my point and I fully accept some people cannot afford this and that and the other
not being rude like but what is the point in that point? Life isn't like that as has been pointed out many many times above. I completely agree with your point, it's just the world doesn't work in an ideal way. So, accepting your point, what do we do with that information?
Will you stop bringing it back to financial ability
Only if this has no effect on my ability to excercise my rights over helath , education and housing- the rights are not equally weel excercised by the rich and poor in the real world ?
This is circular and repititive m-f
Will you stop bringing it back to financial reality
Fixed that for you.
go on then, father dead, mother in latter stages of terminal cancer - what did they do wrong
24 times? Thats harsh isn't it?
A council house should be for life then folks?
Thing is on STW these arguments never get anywhere as there are clearly two camps;
The Poor/rich who still have hope in living.
The Poor/rich who are embittered by life.
If you really want to succeed it is possible to rise above your social background, I can think of at least 10 people I know well who are now
successful professional people. I grew up with them in Brixton/Streatham in the 70's fair to say that back then it was a proper shithole. We had riots, high immigration, shite schools, hefty unemployment and they were all from working class backgrounds every factor that would appeat to mean that we were destined to fail. We were all "estate" kids too. Most of them are in the "real" professions.
The common factor is that we are all foreigners Asian, Black and Arab and our parents ruled with a rod of iron. Whatever we were surrounded by wasn't what we were going to be. I think that is where lots of people fall down these days - Shite parenting skills and no discipline it's the job of parents to sort their kids not the state.
I lived on less than £10 per week for two months at uni
that just about sums up the thatcher supporters of this thread and their total and utter denial of reality..
did you live on that..? HOW did you cope you poor little bear!? my goodness.. and mum and dad couldn't help you out? for two whole months..!!?
oh how you've ****in suffered.. I bet that scarred you.. it must have for you to even recall such an horrific ordeal... do you want a cuddle little lamb..?
I am disgusted by the ignorance of some people... I can't read this any longer as it makes me want to weep at the deluded arrogance of it all..
EAT THE RICH
24 times? Thats harsh isn't it?
no Hora, as you well know that was an example, the last one we looked after
Now, are you going to answer the question?
What did her parents do wrong?
The common factor is that we are all foreigners Asian, Black and Arab
Racist. 😛
Again though - a few case studies doesn't change the economic reality for the vast majority of people.
mastiles_fanylion - Member"no they do not have the financial resources to take advantage of the rights they have."
Will you stop bringing it back to financial ability - I have stated my point and I fully accept some people cannot afford this and that and the other - that is always going to happen as we can't all be equally well off
And its an unfortunate fact that financial wellbeing affects your opportunities
Please explain to me how a single mum in a council house is going to be able to get her kid into the good school from another area. She cannot move house to do so. You can. So your kids get opportunities that hers do not
Just one simple and obvious case
Joolsburger - things have changed since then. How many of them could not afford to go to uni now?
My partner went to university from a working class background. She would not have gone if the rules then are as they are now. Neither a borrower nor a lender be.
hora - embittered Member
I fundamentally disagree with your posts on this so I have updated your membership status.
There is a lot of this going on here (not that I'm surprised ...)
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1/24. Less than 4% of your sample study you used as your sweeping-example?
hora - embittered Member
I'm as disgusted with your use of capital letters as I am with my grasp of basic mathematics.
I find the whole 'let's all go out and celebrate when she dies' bollox, pathetic, childish, and a sign of political immaturity.
Yeah, but it's amusing watching them (and the other side) get worked up about it. Do carry on chaps.
Most of them couldn't afford uni then! Parents saved every penny and went without so they didn't. It is I believe statisically correct to say that Asians especially do significantly better in education and it's not an accident that they do. Of course the University fee structure is shocking but it's being driven in no small part by the requirement for everyone to go to uni when most or many would be better suited to apprenticeships etc. Universities used to educate the gifted now they run courses in nonsense paid for by the taxpayer at expense we cant afford.
My view is that lots of people seem to think that they are in some way owed something by dint of being born in this country and the world simply doesn't work that way.
1/24. Less than 4% of your sample study you used as your sweeping-example?
Hora, that 4% [as you put it] was probably one of the milder situations -
your brains really are brand new aren't they?
I suspect your life expectancy has already passed your I.Q. [going in opposite directions] so I'll save you further embarrassment
Uplink, do you mean 'brand new' in a similar way to the emperor's 'brand new' clothes? 😆
Julesburger. You got considerably more support in the 70s at university than you do now. it was perfectly possible to be from a poor family and graduate without debts or support from your parents. My girlfriend did. it is not possible now
Please explain to me how a single mum in a council house is going to be able to get her kid into the good school from another area. She cannot move house to do so. You can. So your kids get opportunities that hers do not
She probably can't do it.
But it still doesn't alter the fact she has the right to.
MF - so her child does not have the opportunity yours do = inequality of opportunity