"I do wish Boris wouldn't keep making promises that haven't been delivered on"
Don't we all Nigel, don't we all....
If done systematically, you might discover a new type of glue.
The one that left seemingly immovable skids in the toilet recently, could well be a contender. Stubborn bastard. Resisted even strong bleach.
Farrage is like a floater that keeps popping up no matter how many times you flush. Or that permanent stench you get in plastic wheelie bins, that refuses to go away no matter how many industrial chemicals you throw at it.
We actually have this sticker on our bin:
The woeful production values thing is interesting to me, why is it so bad? There are genuinely amateur YouTube channels that can manage professional looking lighting, sound, graphics overlays etc. Something still fairly crappy like Newsmax looks streets ahead.
Is the budget at GBNews really that poor, or could they just not find anyone vaguely competent who wanted to do it?
BBC now reporting that Gutto Harri has also pulled the pin on GB News...
The prospect of a Farage/ Hopkins/ Morgan Sunday morning debate show putting the world to rights is loomimg closer….
but then we'll at least know where they are and we can chain the doors from the outside before cutting the camera feed
I didn't even know which channel GB News was on so was checking them on Youtube previously.
Well, now I found out they are on Freeview 236. Freeview 236 for anyone interested.
I think it is good to have another channel to challenge the prevailing views regardless.
Most news channels regardless are just recycled news anyway so nothing new there.
As for that bloke Gutto Harri ... yeah ... as in the words of the Aussie bloke commenting on the Aussie bloke weather forecast ... "yaah, nobody give a ... " <--- LOL!
Christ. It’ll be Katie Hopkins next.
She's being deported from Australia. Lol! The irony...
She’s being deported from Australia. Lol! The irony…
I think "too racist for Australia" is the title of her new book
She’s being deported from Australia. Lol! The irony…
I think “too racist for Australia” is the title of her new book
LOL! Aussie Wokies are up in arms ...
Killfile specialist to the forum please.
I think it is good to have another channel to challenge the prevailing views regardless.
Just because something or someone is contrary that doesn't mean it or they have value.
On the production values I think I read they were trialling quite a lot of new technology to automate production processes. Seemingly this was to save money, but maybe they couldn’t recruit people. Either way I think this is part of what has caused the production quality issues…
Just because something or someone is contrary that doesn’t mean it or they have value.
That's true but who has the right value?
Just because something or someone is contrary that doesn’t mean it or they have value.
Absolutely this. Also, don't feed the troll folks.
The woeful production values thing is interesting to me, why is it so bad?
Half the problem, often, is not lacking money, its simply not considering that there's a job to be done. TV done well looks like its easy to do. It's not necessarily a case of not being able to find anyone competent - its not looking for anyone competent - not believing that competent people are required or even that the things that need to be done are a job.
Theres making it look easy .... and making it look like you think it's easy.
Chewkw. If your response to this thread is an example of “…challenging the prevailing views” - I’ll pass, thanks.
Your approach of taking a contrary perspective is just a little sad. I don’t care whether you honestly believe it, do it for kicks or are motivated by something else entirely, but the excuses you have made for intolerance on many, many threads is not only tiresome it’s poisonous.
You’ve tried to defend Islamaphobia on other threads and racism on this using some variant on defending plurality of thought or liberalism.
Just stop.
https://twitter.com/mrdavidcwalker/status/1415972525721497600?s=21
It was only a matter of time till this meme was resurrected
And I’m not sure if this is a parody or not but good to see Neil Oliver driving a stake through his career as as a pseudo archaeologist/shit historian
https://twitter.com/gbnews/status/1416463112367132674?s=21
If your response to this thread is an example of “…challenging the prevailing views” – I’ll pass, thanks.
Honestly, don't engage with the troll otherwise you'll get sucked into a parallel thread of non-sequiturs and fact free assertions. It doesn't matter if he/they are badly misinformed or are simply trying to get someone to rise to it, the net effect is exactly the same. Ignore and move on.
but the excuses you have made for intolerance on many, many threads is not only tiresome it’s poisonous.
It's done on purpose, just as surely as there are people who let their dogs shit all over the pavement, despite signs up everywhere saying "please don't let your dogs shit on the pavement". If we refuse to engage with the individual on their terms, they'll eventually go and annoy another corner of the internet somewhere.
That’s true but who has the right value?
You are obviously free to make your own mind up on that, however in my opinion (which you are of course, free to ignore) the recent and depressing phenomenon of giving equal weight to opinions from 'contrary' individuals (to pick a nice term) as from experts in the field is leading to some pretty poor outcomes.
To give an example that I reckon is a light to medium in the contentiousness stakes, what about childbirth? In the last century mortality rates for childbirth in developed countries has plummeted. This has coincided with most children being born in hospitals which have obviously got a lot better at this sort of thing over time.
Person 1 (not a doctor) argues that you should actually go back to how things were back in the good old days when nature was allowed to take its course all natural like, and give birth at home where you're comfortable and feel safe. Person 2 (an actual doctor) argues that hospitals are statistically safer places to give birth. Whose opinion has the 'right value'? Whose opinion, if broadcast, is likely to lead to objectively better outcomes over time?
EDIT: sorry for engaging, will stop now.
And I’m not sure if this is a parody or not but good to see Neil Oliver driving a stake through his career as as a pseudo archaeologist/shit historian
Usual problem of someone who turns into a commentator, reminds me of the tripe in guardian Op-Ed's. Problem is that the boring line of Covid is crap, it has made life difficult but we've been lucky and got on with it following government advice as best we can during a public health crisis is a bit tedious and doesn't get many clicks
The weird thing about Neil Oliver is... even while he was making programmes about things I'm interested in, and his actual content if written down an interesting read... I could never manage more than 10 minutes of his shows because of what I assumed was an irrational and misplaced feeling that he was an insufferable arse. Turns out... that feeling was correct.
Person 1 (not a doctor) argues that you should actually go back to how things were back in the good old days when nature was allowed to take its course all natural like, and give birth at home where you’re comfortable and feel safe. Person 2 (an actual doctor) argues that hospitals are statistically safer places to give birth. Whose opinion has the ‘right value’? Whose opinion, if broadcast, is likely to lead to objectively better outcomes over time?
Does person 2 then discuss the UK maternity unit scandals that are still unraveling... ..
Or is it that actually it's not a binary thing and that there is choice based on risk factors
The problem is that TV tries to setup two contrary talking heads rather than getting into the principles and nuance
The weird thing about Neil Oliver is… even while he was making programmes about things I’m interested in, and his actual content if written down an interesting read… I could never manage more than 10 minutes of his shows because of what I assumed was an irrational and misplaced feeling that he was an insufferable arse. Turns out… that feeling was correct.
I think it's the Lorraine Kelly effect, he's playing a character, a Neil Oliver turned up to 11, it's not him in normal life, it also has enormous tax advantages
Well... if it can get you all the way to No 10...
Does person 2 then discuss the UK maternity unit scandals that are still unraveling… ..
Or is it that actually it’s not a binary thing and that there is choice based on risk factors
The problem is that TV tries to setup two contrary talking heads rather than getting into the principles and nuance
It's absolutely not a binary thing, but once there are two opposing talking heads you tend to fall into a tribal camp and look where that gets us? There will always be reasons to distrust the 'so called experts', from scare stories that you've seen in the news to your mate telling you that he saw this thing on YouTube that blew the whole thing wide open and that you should do your own research. We're not very good at separating out those personal anecdotes from the very impersonal numbers that the expert might be arguing for.
'Children die due to maternity scandal' is obviously much more likely to gain media traction than 'hospital saves life of woman giving birth', because the second one is just 'normal' and therefore boring and unlikely to offend. Again, just because something is sensationalist (or contrary), doesn't mean it definitely has value for the wider group.
The problem is that TV tries to setup two contrary talking heads rather than getting into the principles and nuance
Nailed it. Not just on television, but everywhere in our media and the current freedom of speech proposals from government are designed to lend even the most batshit of assertions false equivalence. Until we give proper credence to investigative journalism and do not put charlatans and bullshitters on a pedestal then we will continue to see what I like to call the Delingpole Syndrome:
Fans of GB News will note who the anchor is and will also note that James Delingpole (who describes himself as a polemicist) has absolutely no grasp of the subject he's being asked to discuss. The guy is struggling to string together a coherent sentence, because all of his media training hasn't prepared him to understand the basic fundamentals about supranational trade agreements.
Just because something or someone is contrary that doesn’t mean it or they have value.
You are obviously free to make your own mind up on that, however in my opinion (which you are of course, free to ignore) the recent and depressing phenomenon of giving equal weight to opinions from ‘contrary’ individuals (to pick a nice term) as from experts in the field is leading to some pretty poor outcomes
You see, I'd argue this attitude is the main root of those problems, the problem isn't that people have silly opinions, it's that they have silly opinions and are by and large dismissed as idiots with silly opinions and ignored. Then we end up in the position we're in where neither side has any interest in the opinion or the even the existence of the other end of the spectrum until it bites us.
In your example half (a) the population will agree with non Dr and ignore the Dr, because the Dr and everyone who agrees with him will answer their concerns and lack of understanding of the other half with "because you're a moron and the dr/we are much cleverer than you".
The second half (b) side with the Dr and ignore not a Dr because they're morons and much stupider so not worth engaging with and everyone they speak to agrees with the Dr so there can't be more than a few people in group (a)
Made it 3:22 through Neil Oliver's speech. What's he talking about!? Mourning for the life he once lived!? His kids will never know the freedoms he enjoyed!? Oh the horror, how his kids must be suffering when they queue up outside Lidl because it's a bit busy. And imagine never experiencing the joy of standing shoulder to shoulder at a bar, desperately trying to get the attention of the bar man before yet another selfish arse jumps in before you rather than staying seated and ordering via the app. Nightmare.
You see, I’d argue this attitude is the main root of those problems, the problem isn’t that people have silly opinions, it’s that they have silly opinions and are by and large dismissed as idiots with silly opinions and ignored. Then we end up in the position we’re in where neither side has any interest in the opinion or the even the existence of the other end of the spectrum until it bites us.
I really don't know how far down the idiotic rabbit hole we need to go in order to help those who hold and regurgitate silly ideas feel loved and see sense. Ordinarily, they would be ignored until they went away, however our media landscape seems to indulge them. That's intentional and I don't think that's necessarily a good thing.
You see, I’d argue this attitude is the main root of those problems, the problem isn’t that people have silly opinions, it’s that they have silly opinions and are by and large dismissed as idiots with silly opinions and ignored. Then we end up in the position we’re in where neither side has any interest in the opinion or the even the existence of the other end of the spectrum until it bites us.
But the problem is that idiots cannot be persuaded. It doesn't matter how reasonable or understanding you are, they still persist with their nonsense. If half the population believes the moon is made of cheese because of what some bloke on the internet says & despite producing moon rock, Neil Armstrong & a battery of observable facts they won't change their mind, are you supposed to just accept that? Especially if their beliefs have a significant effect of society & we end up spending billions of £s trying to construct a Lunar cheese factory. Are they not, in fact, stupid?
As said above, the idea that everyone's opinion is of equal value is doing major harm to both society in general and the planet as a whole.
I really don’t know how far down the idiotic rabbit hole we need to go in order to help those who hold and regurgitate silly ideas [S] feel loved and see sense [/S]
Not that far, just actually discuss them and start from a point where we think there might be some merit in them somewhere rather than dismissing it like someone phoning to ask about your recent accident.
Ordinarily, they would be ignored until they went away, however our media landscape seems to indulge them. That’s intentional and I don’t think that’s necessarily a good thing.
This is what I was trying to get at. Somehow, pre-social media etc. we managed to avoid the huge levels of polarisation we see now. I suspect that's because in general, the media used to go to known experts in a field and outlying 'silly' opinions just didn't get aired and therefore didn't build up traction.
Now anyone can shout from the rooftops the silly opinions get the same airing as the expert ones so they get more traction, the camps form, the arguments begin, and before you know it nothing gets done because the common point of view has vanished.
In my example, I think I forgot a vital component which is to say that if a person decides to have a home birth having taken advice from a medical professional (maybe they've had 3 kids with zero complications already, or some other combination of factors) then I'd support that a lot more than if they'd made the decision having only watched a bunch of ranty YouTube videos on the matter.
You probably once believed the moon was made of cheese, what changed your mind are facts, presented in a way you could understand and grasp them allowing you to move forward and accept them.
The reality is "idiots" are a result of society being unable to teach them not people being incapable of learning. It's not their failing.
I assume you're happy to accept you need to teach maths differently to different people, why is politics different?
The reason we end up with crap like news gb or the guardian letters page is people on mass can't be bothered to explain things so we take all the difficult kids, put them in a room of their own then wonder why it's gone a bit lord of the flies by the end of the week. And at 3.30 on Friday do we open that door think, "oh dear, best do something" or do we close it again quietly and think it's not worth the effort.
This is what I was trying to get at. Somehow, pre-social media etc. we managed to avoid the huge levels of polarisation we see now
That's the important bit, it was always there, you just didn't look. You didn't go to the pub with the George Cross in the window 365 days a year so you didn't see the people who did.
Made it 3:22 through Neil Oliver’s speech.
I couldn’t get that far. I don’t know who he is, or why he’s been given a ‘sermon slot’, but that’s so far the most foul thing I’ve seen on any UK network channel since the pandemic began.
He’s as good as inciting mass civil disobedience no matter how bad a situation we find ourselves in with the virus.
You probably once believed the moon was made of cheese
isn't there a rule in probability maths about not making absolute assertions because you won't tend believe the evidence if it turns out to be true.
The reality is “idiots” are a result of society being unable to teach them not people being incapable of learning. It’s not their failing.
I assume you’re happy to accept you need to teach maths differently to different people, why is politics different?
I am indeed happy with that. But I'm not sure that's what we're discussing. It's one thing for someone to say 'I don't understand how you took 2 from here and 2 from there got four, any chance of explaining it differently?'. It's another thing for someone to say 'I don't understand therefore you're completely wrong it's the answer is obviously 7'.
And yes we should be helping the second set of people as well, but it's haaaaaaaaard and I'm tired and it's too hot. And it requires thought which is hard work.
You probably once believed the moon was made of cheese, what changed your mind are facts, presented in a way you could understand and grasp them allowing you to move forward and accept them.
The reality is “idiots” are a result of society being unable to teach them not people being incapable of learning. It’s not their failing.
I assume you’re happy to accept you need to teach maths differently to different people, why is politics different?
Have you not being attention over the past few years? According to mainstream Western Liberal opinion, what you have written is how it is supposed to work. People are rational, reasonable & once everything is explained to them, they will come to the correct, sensible conclusion.
Unfortunately it's not like that. The internet has facilitated a culture where people are subjected to ideas which pander to their prejudices and bias and play on their ability to believe what they want to believe. The whole Brexit campaign, pre-referendum, was based on presenting a reasonable facts-based explanation of the benefits of staying in the EU & the problems that leaving would create. Present the truth and the correct result would prevail. That worked well didn't it? No wonder Remain subsequently went down a more visceral & emotional path after the result came out
I'm was about to go register mooncheese.com but someone's beaten me to it.
Have you not being attention over the past few years...
... That worked well didn’t it?
I'll keep my answer to that very short because it really is a whole other thread and one which frankly would be better had mask to mask over a couple of beers.
I've been paying attention, for a lot longer than I'd suggest you have if you think "the Internet" has done much but stop a lot of people hiding the ugly bits of the world away from themselves. The huge number of people who don't agree with [insert anything you like] have always been there they're not new, it's just before the Internet "you" thought there weren't many, now you think there are.
GB news, brietbart et al are nothing new, they've just gotten fewer with bigger budgets.
I’m was about to go register mooncheese.com but someone’s beaten me to it.
Isn't that what the guy from sick does these days?
Not that far, just actually discuss them and start from a point where we think there might be some merit in them somewhere rather than dismissing it like someone phoning to ask about your recent accident.
But it doesn't work like that. My cousin is anti-Vaxx and believes that climate change is a hoax. We (my other cousin, my brother and I) have shared links that explain the science, but the response invariably starts with "my friend is an ecologist and she says...". It's infuriating, but it's safe to say that we're not starting from a terribly good place and I simply can't be arsed to explain it or to devote much time trying to understand it. We're all vulnerable to fake news, whether we are prepared to admit it or not but some of us are able to accept that our perceptions were incorrect and move on from there. Some...can't.
You probably once believed the moon was made of cheese, what changed your mind are facts, presented in a way you could understand and grasp them allowing you to move forward and accept them.
That basically happened as soon as I could pick up a book and/or ask an adult "what is the moon made of" when the Junior Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Space (or similar) was duly borrowed from the library.
I do think that the industry that's sprouted to conflate opinion (whether real or manufactured) with actual news is a very, very dangerous thing and that those who are supporting this are extremely irresponsible.
The huge number of people who don’t agree with [insert anything you like] have always been there they’re not new, it’s just before the Internet “you” thought there weren’t many, now you think there are
On the contrary. I think they have always been there*, but now they feel empowered, they can communicate with each other more easily and therefore have more influence.
*Anecdote time: My mother's side of the family were all, to a greater or lesser degree anti-semitic. In particular, one of my aunts was a full-on holocaust denier. There was no point in discussing it with her. Once, when I was about 10 I found myself arguing with her about whether the verb 'to volley' existed. Eventually I went and got a dictionary and pointed out the appropriate entry. Guesss what. I didn't win the argument. You have to accept that some people will never abandon their beliefs & prejudices, the internet has helped to validate and expand that sort of mindset.
GB news, brietbart et al are nothing new, they’ve just gotten fewer with bigger budgets.
And dwindling audiences
the Junior Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Space
Did you borrow that from Holly?
There’s a great documentary on Netflix about flat earthers, who stick to their guns for a variety of reasons no matter what.
The last point it makes is that if we have an environment where people will believe that, they’ll believe (or deny) anything.
It’s called Behind the Curve and well worth a watch.