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Going into the West Bank feels to me like “let’s sort this once and for all” to me
Occupied West Bank does not pose any problem for the Israeli government beyond the fact that its very existence provides a basis for a Palestinian state, there is no new intifada going on in Occupied West Bank.
The Israeli government's priority is the expansion of illegal Israeli settlements in Occupied West Bank so that it becomes less viable as a Palestinian state.
The current Israeli government is totally committed to crushing the Palestinian people. From denying them their own state to denying that they even exist - they are just "Arabs".
From Mark's opening post on this thread, emphasis added by me:
Before you hit that ‘Submit’ button. read what you have typed again and question yourself as to whether or not it’s a useful action to take. Will you add to the debate or will you provoke others? If it were possible I’d have a popup appear after you have hit the Submit button that says, “Are you sure you want to post that?”. So, say those words in your head BEFORE you hit that button.
I don't know whether the equating of Israel and Nazi Germany made by some was deliberately provocative, but I feel that few people lack the self awareness not to realise that it is very provocative language.
And mainly I'm not sure it really contributes to the discussion, or is likely to change minds, rather than just entrench positions and get this thread caught up in somewhat tangential arguments.
Of course it contributes to the discussion. That is precisely why so many Jews who oppose the Israeli government equate Israel and nazi Germany.
One of the reasons that I keep banging on about Gerald Kaufman's speech in the House of Commons is because despite being short it is extremely powerful and hard-hitting.
What makes it hard-hitting is the comparison of the the behaviour of the Israeli government and the nazis. If you took that element out of Kaufman's speech it would lose his impetus.
Having said that I totally get that supporters of the Israeli government hate any comparisons made with the nazis, of course they do. They obviously also hate the government being referred to as fascist, or far-right, or that their state is an apartheid state, or that it is committing genocide, or that Netanyahu is a war criminal, etc etc
Yes I get it. And yes I understand that they want to shut down criticism, a battle which they are very clearly losing.
seems the IDF (previously known as “the most moral army in the world”) have deemed the World Food Program a legitimate target
They also assassinate donkeys pulling carts laden with flour.
They obviously also hate the government being referred to as fascist, or far-right, or that their state is an apartheid state, or that it is committing genocide, or that Netanyahu is a war criminal, etc etc
Is it a little like calling AfD voters hard of thinking. They don't like hearing the truth.
*fingers in ear* or *I'll shout you down and do it loudly to drown you out so I'm right(eous)*
It's worth everyone looking at the latest protests in Isreal.
Netanyahu is increasingly seen as making decisions for his own survival, not for the safety of Israeli citizens (for most outside, and for many inside, that's been obvious all along of course). No idea where this is heading next. Nowhere good I fear, with or without Netanyahu.
Well, there you go. They’ve found a way of sending a signal to Israel, without pulling out of arrangements with the USA & Germany. It’s only a signal, we really are a minnow when it comes to directly supplying Israel, but it’s a welcome signal.
It’s only a signal, we really are a minnow when it comes to directly supplying Israel, but it’s a welcome signal.
Yup, it won't hurt Israel in any meaningful material way, according to the Washington Post British arms exports to Israel represent 0.02 percent of Israel’s overall military imports, and I think the ban affects about 10% of that.
But the public declaration by the UK government that it considers there is a real risk of a “serious violation of international humanitarian law" by Israel will be a real blow to the 'most moral army in the world'.
And it of course further increases Israel's international isolation and pariah status.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/09/02/uk-suspends-arms-sales-israel/
30 out of 350 is pretty much a drop in the ocean. But what would be more interesting is to know what these 30 actually supply
Components for military aircraft including fighter aircraft, helicopters and drones apparently. I am sure that the United States will quietly provide Netanyahu with alternative sources.
Besides, I am sure that they have sufficient advanced military hardware to carry on slaughtering an essentially unarmed people.
But the public declaration by the UK government that it considers there is a real risk of a “serious violation of international humanitarian law” by Israel will be a real blow to the ‘most moral army in the world’.
Fantasy. They don’t give the smallest damn what the UK government or population think. They will continue the genocide project unaffected.
t’s worth everyone looking at the latest protests in Isreal.
The Israeli public have had many opportunities to get rid of Netanyahu if that’s what they actually wanted to do, but he has been consistently democratically re-elected.
Fantasy
What is definitely a fantasy is your tediously repeated claims that the zionists don't care about international condemnations.
They are of course fully aware that their survival is totally dependant on international support. Which is why they push back so hard against accusations of war crimes and crimes against humanity by international courts, organisations, and governments, accusing all who criticise them of anti-semitism.
The defeatist nonsense that Israel can act with total impunity which means that no one can do anything beyond moaning and complaining is a fantasy which plays extremely well into their hands.
As Netanyahu repeatedly and deliberately provokes Iran and Hezbollah into attacking Israel he does so in the full knowledge that Israeli air defences will be overwhelmed without US, UK, and French, support. It is an act of desperation. A gamble which he feels is necessary.
The zionist experiment is collapsing, the genocide which is occurring in Gaza is a symptom of that collapse and failure. The greatest crises in Israel's history is not a sign of zionism's strength, it is a sign of its weakness.
What is definitely a fantasy is your tediously repeated claims that the zionists don’t care about international condemnations
How many Palestinian lives has this worthy condemnation saved? How many mouths does an ICJ statement feed? Israel is supported 100% by the world’s superpower. A lot weaker regimes have pursued their genocide unhindered so pretending that Israel will behave differently is, well, fantasy.
The Israeli public have had many opportunities to get rid of Netanyahu if that’s what they actually wanted to do, but he has been consistently democratically re-elected.
And? The idea that Israeli society is united behind its leaders and that all Israelis share a common vision is nonsense.
The deep divisions within Israeli society are barely sustainable. Cracks are appearing all over the place and whilst Netanyahu might well be maintaining a bunker mentality* these developments are hugely damaging to the zionists.
* Yes the reference to the final days of the Third Reich was deliberate.
Israel is supported 100% by the world’s superpower.
Sorry mate but you really talk some shite if you think that the UK's Foreign Secretary publicly announcing the the UK government believes there is a risk of "serious violation of international humanitarian law” by Israel will have no bearing whatsoever on US policy towards Israel.
United States support for Israel is a judgement call. They have decide the pros and the cons, all manner of issues effects the decisions they make, including the positions and attitudes of their closest allies.
Sorry mate but you really talk some shite if you think that the UK’s Foreign Secretary publicly announcing the the UK government believes there is a risk of “serious violation of international humanitarian law” by Israel will have no bearing whatsoever on US policy towards Israel.
i hope you’re right - we will see. In the meantime, how many deaths in Gaza today ?
Cracks are appearing all over the place and whilst Netanyahu might well be maintaining a bunker mentality* these developments are hugely damaging to the zionists.
* Yes the reference to the final days of the Third Reich was deliberate.
"Bunker mentality" is often misunderstood. It isn't a term specific to any one leader or state, but is a term used symbolically by psychologists when narcissistic leaders are in power.
The Jerusalem Post published this piece on Benjamin Netanyahu https://www.jpost.com/Jerusalem-Report/Netanyahus-narcissism-584857
"Narcissism" is often inappropriately used, but you may be correct albeit with the wrong reasoning
It's also a golfing brand https://bunker-mentality.com/
Netanyahu isn't happy with David Lammy for listening to legal advice about the potential consequences of supplying arms to a regime which you know might commit "serious violation of international humanitarian law”
Netanyahu says 'shameful' of UK to halt some arms export licences to Israel
I guess that when you violate international law on a daily basis it is only natural to expect those close to you to do the same.
I notice from the article that Netanyahu is still trying to delude the Israeli people into believing that he can defeat the Palestinian resistance.
Despite the fact that nearly a year on from the beginning of the onslaught, and with unrestricted access to the most advanced military hardware in the world, he still hasn't managed to. In fact he wants to expand the war in an attempt to cover up his complete failure.
A really interesting article about Netanyahu from an Israeli's perspective imo
As furious protesters take to the streets, Netanyahu may well have reached his political dead-end | Alon Pinkas https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/sep/03/israel-protesters-netanyahu-gaza-war?CMP=share_btn_url
An article in The Lancet estimates that nearly 200,000 Palestinians have been killed, directly or indirectly, by the Israeli war on Gaza. But yeah - self defence.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2824%2901169-3/fulltext
As furious protesters take to the streets, Netanyahu may well have reached his political dead-end | Alon Pinkas
What does he say about furious protestors storming a prison to demand the release of soldiers accused of torturing prisoners?
Try again
Bit by bit the Israeli government is losing control of the narrative. The latest development:
A Historic Moment for Us': Palestinians Take Unprecedented Seat at UN General Assembly
Clearly this is the direct result of the ongoing genocide which Netanyahu and his far-right government is overseeing in Gaza, and the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians.
Apparently (report in Haaretz) the most moral army in the world are recruiting African asylum seekers to undertake dangerous missions in Gaza with the bribe of citizenship. You’ve got to wonder how much lower these people can actually sink.
Still, I’m sure there’s some kind of UN statement on the matter.
Still, I’m sure there’s some kind of UN statement on the matter.
Why would there be a statement from the UN? Recruiting foreigners to fight in your armed forces is perfectly legal under international law. France has been doing it for nearly 200 years with Foreign Legion and Britain even longer with the Gurkhas. And both use the suggestion that it will help with residency applications.
Did you read the whole article btw? These are people who currently living in Israel as asylum seekers and they are being asked if they would like to join the military, they are not being forced. Is there any particular reason why asylum seekers living in Israel should not join the military but do other jobs instead?
There are a whole lot of horrendous angles to the genocide which the IDF is currently committing in Gaza but I am not sure that their recruiting policies represent some of them.
There is plenty of things to get genuinely outraged about because they do violate international law. This for example:
But about 90% of Gaza’s 307 public school buildings and all 12 universities have been damaged or destroyed in Israeli attacks, according to the Education Cluster, a collection of aid groups led by Unicef and Save the Children.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/sep/15/gaza-children-school-year-education-israel-war
Recruiting foreigners to fight in your armed forces is perfectly legal under international law. France has been doing it for nearly 200 years with Foreign Legion and Britain even longer with the Gurkhas. And both use the suggestion that it will help with residency applications.
Worth bookmarking the post where Ernie justifies Israeli actions on the basis of behaviour of colonial powers. He’s wrong, of course - Gurkhas were not recruited from the asylum system to help out with genocide - but that’s another issue.
I assume that you thought no one would read beyond the headlines because the article is behind a paywall? Or perhaps you didn't read it yourself?
The article makes clear that the example they give was an asylum seeker who is legally working in Israel and was contacted by the military and asked if he would like to join. According to the article asylum seekers (of which there are apparently 30,000 living in Israel) often like to join the IDF because they believe that it will help them to quickly integrate into Israeli society.
He initially said yes but then changed his mind at the last moment. Unsurprisingly the recruiting officer was annoyed by the last minute change of mind but nevertheless told the guy that offer would be left open for him.
To allow him to carry on working at his job and not join a military is hardly coercion, especially when you consider that military service is compulsory for almost all Israelis including women.
Maybe we should bookmark your post DrJ to remind ourselves how your heart apparently bleeds for young men who go to a genocidal apartheid regime, which is actively murdering innocent women and children, to claim asylum but want to leave the slaughtering to their hosts - presumably they don't fancy possibly getting killed themselves.
And perhaps to also remind ourselves that you will use any excuse to have a little dig at the United Nations.
Btw despite your false claims France is not currently a colonial power, nevertheless the Foreign Legion (whose recruitment from desperate men is legendary although mostly false) are frontline troops and often the very first to be sent to a combat situation. Do you believe it would be appropriate for the UN to condemn France for this?
Let's not deviate from the horrors which are happening every day in Gaza and the West Bank to launch baseless attacks on the UN.
Breaking news.
Israel has attacked Hezbollah by targeting the pagers Hezbollah use for communications, leaving a reported 1000+ injured.
The pagers suddenly exploded. Seemingly all of them simultaneously
So it appears Israel has infiltrated the supply line these pagers to those people in an operation that must have taken years to set up.
It's like something out a SIFI novel
Another day another step into Israel's growing isolation.
"Some 124 countries supported the measure, 14 opposed it"
Even the UK and Germany (Israel's second largest arms supplier) refused to oppose it. "Abstention" is now the best that Israel can hope for from some of its closest allies.
It’s like something out a SIFI novel
Walkie Talkies now. What next? Fax machines?
An interesting article here :
It Is Not Hamas That Is Collapsing, but Israel
If we continue fighting in Gaza by raiding and re-raiding the same targets, not only won't we bring Hamas to collapse, but we'll collapse ourselves. Not too long from now we will also be unable to carry out those repeated raids, because with every passing day the Israel Defense Forces grows weaker and the number of dead and wounded in action among our soldiers rises. Hamas, in contrast, has already replenished its ranks with 17- and 18-year-olds.
IDF reservists are already voting through action, with many no longer consenting to being redrafted again and again. Conscripted soldiers are exhausted and are losing professional skills for lack of training; some leave courses before completing them. Israel's economy, international relations and social cohesiveness are severely damaged by this war of attrition against both Hamas and Hezbollah, a war that will go on in the north and south so long as the Israeli military remains in Gaza.
In other words, the day will come when the IDF will no longer be able to remain in the Gaza Strip because Hamas will be in full control of it – both in the underground tunnel city that stretches hundreds of kilometers, and above ground. The number of tunnels the IDF destroyed amounts to just a few percent. The same is true for the tunnels under the Philadelphi and Netzarim corridors; Hamas is using them even now to push weapons from Sinai into the northern and southern sectors of the Gaza Strip. In this situation, the army is unable to defeat it and bring it to collapse.
Possibly related to the above:
Btw Gen Yitzhak Brik is someone who predicted the Hamas attack last year, which is more than Netanyahu apparently did, so I think it is fair to say that his opinions carry a certain amount of credibility and that he has a reasonable grip of his specialised subject.
General Brik Predicted the October 7 Attack.
https://www.uncaptured.media/p/general-brik-predicted-the-october
Brik is a well-respected former general and decorated veteran of four wars, having been awarded a Medal of Courage for his part in the 1973 Yom Kippur war. However, in recent years, he had become known as a harsh critic of the preparation of the Israeli military and the Ministry of Defense against national security threats, which viewed Hamas as having been sufficiently deterred by repeated wars, most recently Operation Guardians of the Walls in 2021.
As a Ministry of Defense ombudsman from 2008-2018, Brik spent his days observing Israeli army, navy and air force units, giving him deeper insight into the make up and condition of the armed forces than anyone else in the country. In 2017, he authored a report that warned of a variety of factors that rendered the military incapable of fighting a large-scale war.
More outrages from the Most Moral Army
Makes a change from deliberately running over bodies with digger's/bulldozers etc, they deem the Palestinians as subhuman and little more than vermin.
Worthwhile listen/watch
Apparently Netanyahu’s poll ratings have been going up since the assault on Lebanon. So it seems that stories of Israel’s demise were premature. Still. Democracy at work.
Britain's most frantically pro-israeli newspaper doesn't paint a very rosy picture of the current situation in Israel.
War-fatigued Israel faces brain drain one year on from Hamas attack
America has been dragged into wars before, the French in Indochina sucked them into Vietnam.
Ground invasion of Lebanon is Netanyahu trying to create a wider conflict and testing American resolve. Two problems the first is Hezbolla is about 40,000 strong and has substantial resources. The second is Hezbolla will be fighting in Lebanon to "protect" it. I don't doubt the IDF is capable of beating Hezbolla but it will cost them a lot of young men and women, Israel will become fully ostracised by most of the Arab world and many other countries will follow.
Israel will become fully ostracised by most of the Arab world and many other countries will follow.
They are not bothered about that because Israel has the most powerful nation (USA) and Europe to support them, hence they can do as they wish. Nobody is coming to the aid of those middle eastern people. It looks like the creation of Greater Israel has started.
Sadly very true ^