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Concentrate on the issue.
Was what Gary (terrible English football type – I’m a Scots rugby type) said reasonable?
Yes
End of controversy if not conversation. The current government are a bit ominous.
If I was in charge of a newspaper I would be planning to run a Sunday edition with the headline "Does Lineker have a point?" followed by pages and pages of proper analysis by historians of how the Nazis manipulated the electorate throughout the 30's and comparing each step to what the current govt are doing. No mention of WW2 or the Holocaust, that all happened in the 40's and bringing that into it would play intit Rh hands of Braverman who completely misread the original tweet and it's warning. The tweet would start the story but the govt's actions would be the focus throughout and it would not be pretty. This would hopefully turn the focus away from Lineker and onto what is actually happening but there is no newspaper that is brave enough to do this right now, which is a worry in itself.
Concentrate on the issue.
Was what Gary (terrible English football type – I’m a Scots rugby type) said reasonable?
Yes
End of controversy if not conversation. The current government are a bit ominous.
It is also very simple to sort out. What does the contract between Linker and BBC contain around social media (very easy for BBC to check). If he is in breach of that then end contract, if not then carry on as you were and he can continue to tweet whatever he likes as long as it is not in breach of whatever it states in his contract.
If the nazi's don't like what he is saying that is not a BBC issue (based on contract as above)
Interestingly sports journalists seam to be reporting the background politics of the situation far far better than the political analysts. I suspect because they aren't part of the oxbridge PPE educated conveyor belt supply line into the Westminster bubble that they actually look at it from a better perspective.
From what I have seen, for the usual Westminster bubble reporters it is all about GL and the BBC's claimed impartiality. In the sports reports I have seen much more mention of the actual immigration policy and the condemnation from the UN and human rights groups.
I really hope that any further protests (refusals to do interviews with the BBC etc) make the point of supporting the plight of refugees and opposing government censorship rather than just supporting GL.
Agreed MSP.
I dont see GL backing down, the BBC has a bit of thinking to do.
Tony Blackburn called in 'sick' this morning .....
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1634272992204144640?t=6fucZz1CKgUmDbSvH4p3CQ&s=19
Flip floppers and cowards.
https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1634131380526370816?t=IXVwonz0vhWzZ1W2uRrvyA&s=19
It's easy - what anyone says on twitter is their business, and then up to their employer or hirer to figure out if it voids their terms of contract.
There are no surprises that the BBC at establishment level likes to keep a righty agenda. And that's all at play here.
Also, it's very different than BBC news expressing an opinion.
I mean Andrew Neil FFS.
I don’t understand why the BBC have got themselves in such a mess over Lineker.
He has a lot more followers than either of those. Plus whilst private eye is highly political its also neutral.
The Tory party wants a culture war and it’s getting one.
The Tory party wants a culture war and it’s getting one.
Yep they're good at this.
I mean Andrew Neil FFS.
Part of the reason he left the bbc was said to be due to a tightening up on social media.
He was, amusingly, a victim of the hard rights attempt to silence bbc presenters who they didnt like
Richard Sharp is doing the job he was appointed to do.
Destroy the BBC, get rid of the licence fee and privatise.
It's gone. Kuenssberg and Bruce have helped as well.
I know he’s gone but I hardly think the loss of Popmaster is going to hurt the BBC that badly?
Radio4 discussion on this now.
Those comments from Emily Thornberry and Yvette Cooper above = they need the red wall vote to win the next election. Red wall voters have certain views about foreigners (I grew up in the North East of England so know how bigoted a lot of people "oop norf" are).
They can't come out in favour or appear neutral on the matter because then the right wing media will attack them "JEREMY CORBYN BLAH BLAH BLAH COMMUNIST LABOUR!!!!!" etc etc etc
I think they're playing a very smart game. Condemn using milder language compared to the "woke blob" Tories. I'd rather they lightly condemn Linekar, even though I don't agree with their sentiment, than lose the next election.
We need to get these Tory b+tards out, whatever the cost.
Flip floppers and cowards.
“Labour front benchers call the government Nazis” … that’s the headlines if any of them agree with the “Germany in the 30s” comment unreservedly. They can still say they understand why he said it and that he should be allowed to say it without losing his gig.
https://twitter.com/peston/status/1634251332717776896?s=21
Oh, I agree with Lineker’s comment by the way. That he specifically said “in the 30s” makes it a fair comparison, in my opinion. But that nuance will be completely ignored in the world of headlines and the division being manufactured to try and revive the fortunes of Conservative Party politicians.
Those comments from Emily Thornberry and Yvette Cooper above = they need the red wall vote to win the next election
They also need everyone elses.
The who else can people vote for approach was demonstrated rather flawed by the end of new labour so why are they taking the same approach again.
If they are just going to pander to the hard right press then they arent worth the vote. Since that will just create a new baseline for an even more extreme tory government in future which would likely be far worse than the current bunch.
This whole thing is bizarre. Man expresses personal and valid opinion regarding government immigration policy. He’s not the BBC and didn’t post from a BBC account. His opinion isn’t inflammatory if you’ve read even a tiny bit of history from the period he referenced.
I’ll probably get grief for this but those claiming it takes away from the horror of the holocaust are wrong. That didn’t spring out of thin air now did it. There was a lead up to it. To ignore the language and rhetoric used at the time and not highlight modern day equivalences would be wrong.
I know nothing about football but now have a huge amount of respect for Gary Lineker.
Well this escalated while I was asleep, bloody excellent!
That he specifically said “in the 30s” makes it a fair comparison, in my opinion. But that nuance will be completely ignored in the world of headlines and the division being manufactured to try and revive the fortunes of Conservative Party politicians.
That's the angle the govt are playing, making out he compared them to the Nazis. He didn't. He's drawing comparison with the events that led to the Nazis being in complete power and the advent of WW2. A lot of historians are trying to point this out in various places but are being drowned out by the Tory supporting media who are (annoying successfully) going down the route of destroying Lineker as a person rather than analysing the issue highlighted.
The only people who mentioned the Nazis and the Holocaust are the govt themselves.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64904333
That is the BBC headline which Rishi Sunak would have preferred to dominate the news.
Apologies if this has already been said but if the Government ever listen to the News Quiz they are going to lose their shit.
MSP
Full Member
I really hope that any further protests (refusals to do interviews with the BBC etc) make the point of supporting the plight of refugees and opposing government censorship rather than just supporting GL.
This is an important point, it can't just be support for a popular sports broadcaster, there needs to be consistent challenge to the policies behind all of this, both immigration and their attempts to curtail any challenge in the media.
Protests against the BBC will have some ministers in this cabinet cheering “job done”.
Anyway, Match of the Day tonight…
[ EDIT: sorry slowoldman, I’d missed that you’ve posted this from Viz already … but he’s on the telly! ]
I think Gary Lineker should follow Suella Braverman's excellent example by resigning in disgrace and then getting his job back a week later...
TBH if someone like Nadine Dorries is having a pop at you you're almost certainly doing something right.
No player interviews for Match of the Day tonight?
https://twitter.com/dominicpenna/status/1634493577895063552?s=21
I suspect there'll be sections at least without crowd noise, fans are usually pretty good at coming up with appropriate comment.
This is great. I usually dislike the 'power of football' as I think it diminishes other sports in this country, but I'm loving its power now.
I just hope, when I get to the 50th birthday fancy dress party I'm going to tonight, that the majority are Gary Lineker supporters. It is in Leicester, but I know a few are more right leaning than I am....
Presenters are pulling out of football focus now as well. I just wish one of them would reiterate Lineker's message on refugees (maybe they are and it's not being reported).
The UK is on a pretty dark path.
> https://www.theguardian.com/media/2023/mar/10/david-attenborough-bbc-wild-isles-episode-rightwing-backlash-fears?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
The BBC are very clear that this story is untrue, that the series was commissioned as a 5 parts, and advertised as such when it was commissioned. The final film was commissioned specifically to be only e only.
BBC management are in trouble now.
Alex Scott has pulled out of Football Focus and her replacement. Show cancelled.
Footballers not going to perform interviews after the matches today, with support of the PFA.
I wonder what is going to happen on Radio 5 and the local stations today?
If the BBC double down on this, then who knows where it will end up?
Let’s not forget that this hasn’t come out of nowhere.
Remember that at the Euros we had the Tory government heavily criticising England players for taking the knee, and Raheem Sterling in particular for his statements about Black Lives Matter. They tried to censure players saying they should ‘stay out’ of politics and not make political statements
Then as soon as the team started winning, we got this horror show as lackeys were dispensed to get box-fresh Engerland shirts
https://s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2021-07/67e00a70-dfb6-11eb-9e7f-543c46cd009 7" alt="" />
You’d think they’d have learnt their lesson then. Apparently not
The BBC are very clear that this story is untrue
Well, they would say that, wouldn't they.
It looks like I'm in a minority here that thinks the situation is...
He is allowed to tweet what ever he wants, but the 1930 comparison was what did him.
As soon as you start comparing people to the Nazis you're on thin ice.
I saw this on Twitter....
https://twitter.com/hearnimator/status/1633599497153421320?s=20
It's all a side show to real issues in the world.
There's better football coverage and analysis on YouTube these days.
As soon as you start comparing people to the Nazis you’re on thin ice
That isn’t what he did though, is it? Despite what the government would have you believe
There’s better football coverage and analysis on YouTube these days
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1634429942216769537?s=46&t=7OvBb1xdmiB8v--H9jItag
You are John Redwood and I claim my Brexit Dividend and flight to Rwanda
Anyway… it looks like this is escalating beyond MOTD now
https://twitter.com/alexscott/status/1634495022870437893?s=46&t=7OvBb1xdmiB8v--H9jItag
I'm going to do the alignment thing - if your viewpoints are opposed to those being pushed by Lee Anderson, John Redwood, Laurence Fox, Kelvin McKenzie and Julia Hartley-Brewer then that gives me reasonable confidence I'm in the right place.
As soon as you start comparing people to the Nazis you’re on thin ice.
He didn't do that though. He tweeted that the language used around the refugee crisis was similar to the language used in 1930's Germany. He was describing language like "swarm" and "invasion".
You are John Redwood and I claim my Brexit Dividend and flight to Rwanda
Very funny...or pathetic if you actually believed that lol
I am in the rather nice position of not liking the BBC or Gary or the Tories so I'm just sat here with my popcorn shaking my head at how this has all blown up and is getting so much passionate discourse.
When people use the 1930s Germany comparison to sensationalise their point, it diminishes the Holocaust
I saw that on twitter too, and disagree with it. As others point out, 'the holocaust' didn't just kick in one day.
Indeed, it would be tricky to decide exactly when the holocaust started. When trains started running to the death camps? Or was it Kristallnacht in 1938? Or the 1935 laws removing citizenship from Jewish people? Or government boycotts of Jewish businesses in 1933? Or when they kicked Jews out of the civil service?
Whenever it was, it started small, and grew from there. To say we can't compare anything to 1930s Germany because it wasn't as bad as 1940s Germany is dangerous ground IMO.
Lineker didn't mention the Nazis by name. He was talking about dehumanising language. And it's a fair point to raise, I think.
What is the chances of John Redwood ever actually watching MOTD? Because just the possibility that he might, would prevent me from ever stripping naked and smearing myself with marmite while watching MOTD ever again.
No fighting talk on 5live just now. I assume Colin Murray has also made a stance
Indeed, it would be tricky to decide exactly when the holocaust started.
Well "The Final Solution" was formally signed on 26th Feb 1942.
