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The actual figure of asylum claims that are granted is 75%. Not that you’ll ever hear that figure from anyone in government, who want to criminalise and deport 100% of them, though god knows where to. Afghanistan? Syria? Iran?
Anyway… it’s not even worth discussing. The whole thing is illegal under international law and will fall apart under the first legal challenge, as Cruella knows full well
But then it was never a serious policy proposal anyway. It’s just more culture war bollocks, so that they can scream ‘woke’ to their nasty, racist base as they blame ‘lefty lawyers’ for not letting them cart everyone off to Rwanda (which is just another non-starter, legally)
It’s just a form of non-virtue signalling.
It’s just a form of non-virtue signalling.
I think you're probably correct. Only thing is - if I was a blue blooded dyed in the wool gammon, bred to lap this stuff up surly you'd get to the point where you might think your tory overlords might just be a bit inept if they can't get their very sensible proposals into actions and are stymied are every turn by some feeble (probably vegan) lefty woke lawyers - even with a thumping great majority and 13 years in power. Or maybe it's just to provoke them into staying angry with the world...and an angry gammon can be relied upon to vote right.
So now your trying to censor quotes, and stop others quoting the nuance that our elected government have come up with, on a thread which is essentially about censorship, let me get my ironing board.
Oh no, dont say that, don't repeat that, it isn't very nice and might hurt the ears of babies. On a mtb forum which might get read by a couple of hundred people tops. Most of whom have good enough eyesight to see the quote marks and a high enough IQ to form their own option and not believe it, just because it has been written down.
Albania is not on the gov list of a country where they persecute and torture people, yet last year they made up 42% of people recorded crossing on small boats. As Albania is one of the poorest Western countries i would imagine at least some of them will be economic migrants.
Its unfortunate that they get lumped in with the Kurds, Iragis, Afgans, Syrians Africans who are genuinely escaping from torture and imprisonment.
Yet again a thread gets spiralled off on a tangent because someone said something someone didn't like so they had to go all keyboard over it. Way too much uneccessary drama. I may be a thicko but when you cant quote something that you do or dont disagree with, in context, without being jumped on, thats just sad really.
Edit.
Sorry, got the wrong end of the stick.
when you cant quote something that you do or dont disagree with, in context, without being jumped on, thats just sad really
Agreed, especially where you were clear that it was “dispicable”. Your context and meaning were clear in your post. Nothing to complain about.
Boys, boys - settle down.
It's worth noting that, although I'm not aware anyone has said all migrants are young Albanian men, many tories are saying the majority of migrants are that group - jenrick on QT most recently.
Predictably, tice trotted out the same lie in R4 Any Questions on Friday.
It will certainly be a feature of mail and express coverage as well as being echoed in their comment sections.
Yes, even though that is a group that is easy to return if their asylum application is rejected.
If I were an Albanian chap I’d chuck my ID overboard and say I’m from Syria. That’s just me though. Nobody else would do such a dishonest thing.
You’d have to be pretty good at learning languages. Asylum fraud isn’t easy. Reading the wrong media might bring you to think otherwise though.
BBC says Albanians were 28% of small boat immigrants in 2022 not 42%.
https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-63473022
Ah fair enough. My dastardly plan fails at the first hurdle. So plan B: When mr asylum fraud inspector tells me to pull the other one, you’re not Syrian, now tell me where you’re from so I can send you back. I’m just going to keep my gob shut. Hope they don’t tickle the truth out of me.
Meanwhile over the last few days thousands of people have been rescued in international waters between Libia and Italy and there are currently 5000 people in the 400 capacity refugee camp on Lampadusa.
France has pulled out of South Sahara leaving Wagner to do their best/worst and the crisis isn't going away any time soon.
What would you do if you were there? I think I'd risk drowning rather than get shot/hacked to bits/starved/enslaved... .
You’d think that with a massive need for workers in this country presently, the kind of person with the nouse to get themselves out of a war zone, then half way round the planet would be just what we need
"What would you do if you were there? I think I’d risk drowning rather than get shot/hacked to bits/starved/enslaved… ."
I met a family from Sudan last year who had gone through the very same.
Well I say Sudan, the parents were Sudanese but had fled for their lives from the Janjaweed militia who wanted to kill them, the children were born in a migrant camp in Libiya, where they lived until their early teens.
Then we decided to try a bit of regime change and now there were lots of Libyans and terrorists of various nationalities that wanted to kill them, and British and French planes dropping bombs on them, not trying to kill them but you know...bombs.
Mum and Dad decided to take the family to the coast and risk the crossing and you know what? the Mediterranean Sea wanted to kill them too!
How they eventually got to the UK I don't know but I'm glad for them that they did and the UK is a better place for their presence.
EDIT:
Just seen Binners comment, the family are exactly those sort of people.
This ‘economic migrant’ bollocks. What’s the problem? We are extremely lucky to live in a rich country. As a result people from poorer countries will want to come here. Would all those whining about economic migrants prefer the opposite to be the case?
Affordable housing is an issue. Where would they all live? There’s not enough for the people who already live here. A total pie in the sky solution would be to enable all these people to work building massive new council estates and new towns.
We are funding the building of a detention centre in France. Why not make it an application for asylum centre? That would help stop the boats and the people traffickers. We could fly people straight from the refugee camps in Africa/ Syria also. & change the law so asylum seekers can work!
If only someone in government had the desire to help these people.
Absolute bollocks as you say, in only a few years time it will be obvious to even the most bone headed moron that there are no young people left to keep the country working.
Especially when you consider that the brightest and best of British youth will have finished digging their escape tunnels by then...
Affordable housing is an issue. Where would they all live? There’s not enough for the people who already live here
There's tons of houses around me that sit empty most of the year, waiting for their owners to come up for an occasional holiday.
If the UK needs immigration to satisfy labour shortages the ability and desire to survive might have its appeal but reducing immigration policy to the level of the Hunger Games doesn't seem particularly attractive to me.
Most people would agree that it is not morally justified to allow Albanians, for example, to circumvent the normal immigration processes if they simply pay people smugglers and risk their lives by making a treacherous sea crossing in dangerous and unsuitable crafts.
People who might lack the physical strength to make those journeys, or the ability to pay people smugglers, also have a right to be considered.
This doesn't however make those who attempt the crossing "criminals" any more than those who might steal food because they and their families are hungry. No one believes that stealing food should be legally allowed but very few people would condemn hungry people for stealing.
In the case of Albania it isn't straightforward anyhow imo as although in theory it is a safe European country in reality it is I believe a relatively dangerous country with very high levels of lawlessness and criminality.
The whole small boats issue is a highly complex issue which needs to be handled with compassion and humanity at its heart. And not exploited and used as an excuse to whip hatred and to scrape the gutter for votes.
Edit: To be clear my comment is aimed at those who lump everyone who attempts to enter the UK illegally as the same.
There’s tons of houses around me that sit empty most of the year, waiting for their owners to come up for an occasional holiday.
Don’t even get me started on that. If I was PM I’d give them all six months to sell their holiday homes to local residents at a heavily reduced rate or it gets confiscated and given to Albanians.
Other issue with Albanians is that many may be victims of modern slavery, especially the younger ones, but that's incredibly hard to prove
I think Mo Farahs story has done a lot to raise the issue of modern slavery.
Not allowing asylum seekers to work hugely self-defeating, especially when we have labour shortages, that are contributing to inflation and failing services.
With the processing backlog of 3 years?!?! that means government has to support them until their application is granted or not & it wouldn't be surprising if they turned to crime or grey economy in the meantime
And what no politician wants to admit is that Western countries with ageing demographics need young workers
Germany absorbed a huge number of migrants in the last decade using them in housebuilding in particular to boost their gdp
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/germany-s-economy-will-grow-faster-because-of-the-million-refugees-it-is-helping-study-finds-10505647.html
We are funding the building of a detention centre in France. Why not make it an application for asylum centre?
Because they feel that it would make them appear to be soft. And yet that is precisely what they are proposing to do in Rwanda - to have a detention centre in Rwanda where people's asylum applications will be processed, before a decision is made.
The difference is that sending them to Rwanda sounds tough. Ultimately the only thing the current UK government wants out of the misery of desperate people's lives is maximum political milage.
And what no politician wants to admit is that Western countries with ageing demographics need young workers
I thought SNP and Scottish Green govt have been openly saying exactly this for a number of years?
No economic migrants in the mix at all? Like, none?
Well, even if there is, so what?
As I said earlier, net migration to the UK is about half a million per annum. You're arguing about a dinghy containing a dozen brown people and questioning whether at least one of them might be a chancer. Shall we just start building machine gun nests across the coast now to provide a final solution?
Hey, we could solve homelessness in much the same way, I'd give them money but I heard that some of them might be criminals. 🤷♂️
Stick end wrong got the of the.
Well, even if there is, so what?
As I said earlier, net migration to the UK is about half a million per annum. You’re arguing about a dinghy containing a dozen brown people and questioning whether at least one of them might be a chancer. Shall we just start building machine gun nests across the coast now to provide a final solution?
Hey, we could solve homelessness in much the same way, I’d give them money but I heard that some of them might be criminals. 🤷♂️
I wasn't arguing anything. But don't let that stop you from shoehorning in your hilarious 'twelve brown people in a dinghy' joke. Again.
Affordable housing is an issue. Where would they all live?
Maybe some of them are builders, architects, bricklayers...
singletrackmind
Full MemberStick end wrong got the of the.
It's easy for you to say that.
But what does it mean?
I wasn’t arguing anything. But don’t let that stop you from shoehorning in your hilarious ‘twelve brown people in a dinghy’ joke. Again.
Well, no, you were talking abject bollocks. But pointing that out doesn't make for a constructive discussion so I thought I'd ask a question of you instead. Which you ignored.
So, again, "what if there is?" In the grand scheme of things is processing a few shitbags worth the investment if it also means we save lives of people genuinely trying not to die?
The whole "we're full, go away" approach is straight out of the Farage Playbook.
So, again, “what if there is?”
What indeed. I don't know what you want me to say. The original poster that I replied to said that 'ALL boat people are asylum seekers'. I pointed out that that statement was false. That's it.
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Maybe some of them are builders, architects, bricklayers…
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No doubt. Which is why if you read the rest of my post you'd see that I said that these chappies could work here building new towns and council estates. Another poster pointed out that Germany have done this successfully. And I applaud that.
I've not read any of the thread, but 14 pages discussing a tweet by Gary Lineker? 🙂
I would guess he's thinking about running for President/PM.
What a time to be alive!
Economic migrants, what a bunch of ****s.
Those workshy West African spongers have completely transformed parts of North Manchester from heroin ravaged hellholes into functioning suburbs, once again.
My mate who's a headmistress in one of the local schools is absolutely sick of parents knocking on her door demanding to get involved helping their aspirational, well dressed, well fed, desperate to learn kids make the most of their opportunities.
Meanwhile, their workshy parents have flooded the NHS workforce with their stupid, hard to understand accents.
They must have something to hide - many of them change their African names to something more European in order to hide their dodgy pasts.
Many proud Mancunians of recent Jewish, European, Ukrainian and Asian heritage are rightly appalled by this flagrant invasion.
My French, Spanish, Flemish, Irish, Scottish Catholic and East European Jewish ancestors must be turning in their graves.
What's your point caller? Nobody's arguing against economic migration. We need that. And there exists the work visa scheme to enable it.
Nobody’s arguing against economic migration.
Oh please.
That's just willful ignorance.
The original poster that I replied to said that ‘ALL boat people are asylum seekers’.
That would be a valid statement. They will all step off the boat and seek asylum. Some of those claims will be genuine (most of them, historically), and a minority will not.
Realistically, no-one is going to enter the country this way and try to obtain a work visa.
I would guess he’s thinking about running for President/PM.
Are there many people who think that wouldn't be an improvement? If Zelensky can go from light entertainment to esteemed wartime leader..
Oh please.
That’s just willful ignorance.
Could you elucidate please? Who is arguing against economic migration and why?
Who is arguing against economic migration and why?
Again, willful ignorance.
Engaging with you makes me feel like I've soiled myself.
And not in a good way.
Affordable housing is an issue. Where would they all live? There’s not enough for the people who already live here.
Here's a radical idea, the government could specify and fund some housing for rental through the local councils. We could call it something benign like "Council Housing". It would hopefully make the market more realistic and stop this sort of thing. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/mar/12/worried-about-rent-spare-a-thought-for-your-poor-landlord
Engaging with you makes me feel like I’ve soiled myself.
You certainly soiled yourself with that wall 'o'' guff up there 🤣
Here’s a radical idea, the government could specify and fund some housing for rental through the local councils. We could call it something benign like “Council Housing”.
Absolutely 100%
I don’t know what you want me to say. The original poster that I replied to said that ‘ALL boat people are asylum seekers’. I pointed out that that statement was false. That’s it.
I'm curious as to why you felt the need to bring it up. Devil's advocate?
Also, what Martin said.
Nobody’s arguing against economic migration.
As far as I'm aware, you were the first to mention it on this thread.
I thought SNP and Scottish Green govt have been openly saying exactly this for a number of years?
Indeed they have
makes me feel like I’ve soiled myself.
And not in a good way.
Have I been missing out on one of life's little pleasures?