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?Edric 64 - MemberHow do you break the culture of several generations of ****less loutish behaviour though.
By kicking them up the ar5e, but modern day liberalisation won't allow you!
I know but I risk a ban if I spout off again!!
How do you break the culture of several generations of ****less loutish behaviour though.
Surestart was set out to do just that, but unfortunately it suffered mission creep to the point of becoming something entirely different.
The big issue is self selection - you cannot compel parents to bring their kids to Surestart, and so you end up with mainly the interested parents bringing their kids in, rather than the disinterested ones you're hoping to target.
I suspect that ultimately there is a massive suite of changes that need to be made - you need to actually incentivise learning and hard work, and for that to happen we need increased social mobility. Or some serious state intervention in people's parenting of their children, but that's something I think would be rather ugly.
TandemJeremy - Memberthe main problem is that the things that need to happen for that person to be able to take a reasonable place in society don't play well with the hang 'em and flog em and don't waste your money "Daily Wail" brigade - and especially not those who believe in violence as the answer.
....... Edric 64 - Member
............Whilst we spend money sorting out the problem people who thinks about the good well behaved kids. Do they get rewarded with trips to Alton Towers and free i pods as well?
don simon - MemberBy kicking them up the ar5e, but modern day liberalisation won't allow you!
Yes TJ all well and good but many problem kids have been pandered to and it has not helped improve their attitude or self esteem
Would some form of not National Service but maybe Pioneer Corp work, whereby community projects get worked on to encourage team building and friendship whilst respecting a chain of command but in a military type environment?
I guess ( and its not really my field) Something along the lines of a pioneer corps could be a part of the answer. Got to draw a very careful line on disciple between harsh and slack I imagine.
Or better still, intervene early and alter cultures so that we avoid having to deal with kids with deep rooted problems as far as possible. At the moment people can treat their kids pretty horrendously for quite a while before someone will intervene, particularly if the man of the house is the sort to appear at the front door telling all and sundry to eff off.
Agree it needs to be constructive.Have you seen the article I think there is a programme as well where a girl took three bad lads sailing in the Carribean and by the end they had seen the error of their ways and have now come home and started to get their lives sorted?
Nursery and schooling can help but the parents really need to be involved and educated as well otherwise the good work done at nursery and in school is undone a soon as the child goes home
How do you break the culture of several generations of ****less loutish behaviour though.
Sterilisation.
Now if I suggested that the mods would have me .Having said that Ghandi tried it in India in exchange for a radio so upgrade to an ipod and you may have a deal!
I love reading what people who dont work in this area think. TJ you are correct but no amount of professional intervention works - what can we do in a few hours that combats everything that happens at home? The positive stuff people get is more likely to be a trip bowling than an Ipod or expensive foreign holiday. It also tends to be failry effective in terms of retention and more importantly redusing offending and stopping it escalting to more serious offences.
Sadly a number of our young citizens are just sh1ts who dont really respect anything, including themselves. They tend to hang with like minded individuals and all attend YOT - probation for young people - on mass and their lack of care for this is obvious.
Sure start is again a good idea but again what can we do to make a bad parent a good one? Go down the park and witness it today. Today I saw a guy asking his 3- 4 year old where her f@cking shoes were and why the f@ck could she not wear them - he had just got up from his spliff and special brew - about 10 adults 20 + kids - to make this point. I dont really see what the state can do to prevent this sadly. - 20 years in social services, teaching and variety of youth work intervention type work.
The treat them like sh1t punish them or kick up the rear really does not work. Research shows that the best factor is the presence of a life long positive adult - does not need to be parent hence the increasing interest in community mentors but not popular as a bit wolly to sel this to Daily Mail types despite the evidence base.
Some of these young kids really are unpleasnt , uncaring amoral asshats - yes they have reasons for this but they also have to be held, to varying degrees , culpable and responsible for their own behaviour. So do there parents but there is no magic wand whether you use a fluffy liberal one or a brutal nail spiked one.
From my experience as a mum of 2 (now adult) kids who attended a 'mixed' school. Many children have parents who have no expectations of them and actually don't know how to 'parent'.
My son's year had a particularly bad, aggressive, hardcore group of lads from these families. Their PE Teacher was brilliant, he encouraged them to play rugby. They learned how to work as a team, they actually had people saying positive things to them and praising them. Eventually they reached a County championship and they were so proud. They felt valued.
But they still go back to their 'normal' lives. Subsequently, some have ended up in Borstal, trouble with the Police etc etc. I just don't feel there is much hope for them unless they are removed from that environment.
I honestly believe that sport should play an important part in childrens lives - so many of life's lessons can be learned. I've been involved in voluntary coaching both at school and at an athletic club but, at the end of the day, the attendees do not fall into the 'problem' category.
Self-esteem is a hugely important subject and it really does need addressing.
Junkyard - interesting to hear it from your perspective, although it does sadden me. So many people don't reach their potential so is this where 'community mentors' come in? Would certainly like to hear how this works.
PC called round, he gave the impression that scrote parents were decent people at the end of their tether. they have agreed to keep her at home. will see what she instructs her hordes to do. i have lost compassion for people like her. she makes bad choices. she'll have to deal with it. they have an apocalypse hanging over them which will descend like a legion of demons if anyone lays a finger on my girl again. the law will deal with the first 2 assaults, i'll deal with the next one.
also daughter is fired up in full banshee mode. she'll fight back hard next time. obviously i really hope there isn't a next time though.
iDave, repeated good lucks your way.
this sort of thing makes my P*ss boil..what worries me is your daughter, in defending herself, beats 7 shades out of the scrote, and then finds herself in serious trouble.