[Closed] Freedom of speech vs Freedom to hate

Ok, ok.

So we're clearly not evolved enough for this yet..

Surely the forum owners can ban ninfan though?
The bloke is clearly not right and brings nothing useful. I strongly suspect that he needs professional help for his sociopathic disease..

Unfortunately I think a lot of this boils down to the fact that people can no longer accept the consequences of their actions

Of course if you are not a dick you won't fall into this trap.

yunki - Member
Surely the forum owners can ban ninfan though?

i personally defend ninfans right to be a bit of an arse, so nah, I don't advocate his banning! 😆 just don't read him or use the killfile people mention if he offends that much..

yunki - Member

Ok, ok.

So we're not evolved enough for this yet..

Yunki, compare the society you live in with any where freedom of speech and expression is much more limited. Any way you cut it curtailing individual expression and freedom of speech is a step towards authoritarianism.

I get that Jimjam.
Hence the question about how we can separate freedom of speech from freedom to hate

i personally defend ninfans right to be a bit of an arse

Just remember that someone probably once said exactly the same thing about Nigel Farage

So, Yunki = Stalin

Living in a free society means we can think & hate what we want!
Ok comrade! 😉

yunki - Member

I get that Jimjam.
Hence the question about how we can separate freedom of speech from freedom to hate

Going back to your OP

With the argument for free speech entering such a murky and degenerate phase, would it be possible to make the distinction between freedom of speech and freedom to hate in a bid to halt the march into chaos?

I think a key aspect of how we got from were we were (not sure where that was but anyway) to where we are today was due to the failure or degradation of political integrity and intellectual honesty - by BOTH sides. And the fact that there are only two percieved sides.

That combined with much of what wobbliscott posted is how we got to here.

So, Yunki = Stalin

Living in a free society means we can think & hate what we want!

What do you want hate for though?
Why should we defend that right?
Should we defend your right to want child porn?

Yay freedom!

What do you need to hate for though?
Why should we defend that right?

I hate Nazis. I also hate communists. I really hate mushrooms, too.

Am I allowed the right to hate?

What do you need to hate for though?
Why should we defend that right?
Should we defend your right to child porn?

Yay freedom!

It is "defended" by your right to free speech, not defended "specifically"
Child pornography is illegal just as certain "speech" is illegal. That is the boundary, cant you see that?

How do you "define" hate? How does it manifest itself?

You dont hate those things flasheart.. you may be scared of them or frustrated by them, or you may prefer the taste and texture of other stuff

Learn to express yourself properly.

I dunno surfer.

I dunno.
In this context the best I can come up with is irrational intolerance.
Being horrible about someone before they've even opened their gob.

I haven't got the brains to figure out the details..
Maybe we could just enforce rule one?

So we're clearly not evolved enough for this yet..

We're discussing it, so clearly we are.

That combined with much of what wobbliscott posted is how we got to here.

😆

London liberals and political correctness? If it requires this sort of thing to force a modification of behavior onto people with irrational hatred then so be it.

Am I allowed the right to hate?

Only if you hate the right

Only if you hate the right

I wonder why so many hate the right eh?

As a direct result of the trendy London liberals labelling anyone which [sic] concerns about immigration as racists or xenophobes

So what you're saying is that it's all the fault of people saying that others who are frightened of outsiders are xenophobes?

El-bent

London liberals and political correctness? 😆 If it requires this sort of thing to [b]force a modification of behavior[/b] onto [b]people with irrational hatred[/b] then so be it.

wobbliscott

We managed for decades with a low level of extremism, but now its rife. If you quash it rather than confront it which is what's been happening over recent years, then it just festers and grows in the absence of any counter arguments or points of view to challenge them.

wobbliscott
lack of tolerance or others who have views that differs to your own and the most popular views, and shouting down of those people with different views and labelling them 'ists' or stupid that is at fault.

wobbliscott
Lets encourage extremists to speak, lets challenge them. We might not change that individuals point of view, but we might offer up alternatives to others who have yet to form a strong opinion.

wobbliscott
these issues are not always polarised, in fact they are rarely polarised. The simplistic view of 'right' and 'wrong' no longer applies, its shades of grey and by not having the debate in a free and open manner we're not discussing all the various shades of grey leaving vast swathes of our population unsatisfied with the their representation and feeling they are being ignored and marginalised. And so they turn to the more extremist end of the argument.

wobbliscott
Immigration is a classic. As a direct result of the [s]trendy London liberals[/s] leftist ideologues labelling anyone which concerns about immigration as racists or xenophobes and preventing them from speaking or debating the many complicated facets of this vast topic, people just clam up, find others with similar concerns, whinge and moan amongst themselves with just leads to ever more extreme views.

wobbliscott
It's nothing about freedom to hate. How can you stop someone from hating its a human trait and emotion. You either deal with someone's hate head on, or try to ignore it and sweep it under the carpet. We've been doing the latter for too long.

I wonder why so many hate the right

Because they are afraid of being wrong?

We can't hate the right ninfan.. The right is a group made up of very complex and unique individuals, much like the left
We can hate hate maybe

You either deal with someone's hate head on, or try to ignore it and sweep it under the carpet. We've been doing the latter for too long.

If we'd carried on for another 50 years, we might well have forgotten all about it completely

You should have the freedom to say absolutely anything mixed with the intelligence to know when not to.

Well done you Jim Jam for being able to use quotes. Your point is what?

Because they are afraid of being wrong?

Only if it was in brexit fantasy land.

El-bent - Member

Well done you Jim Jam for being able to use quotes. Your point is what?

My point was to reiterate or reinforce that wobbliscott's post was solid. Furthermore by breaking the post into individual points I thought that it would make it easier for you or anyone else to tackle or deconstruct them one by one should you wish to do so, in the interests of honest debate and critical thinking, as opposed to isolating four words from the entire post and adding one of these - 😆

Instead of trying to mock, deride or otherwise silence opinions that you don't agree with, or in your words force a modification of behaviour, you could try to engage with them.

Anyway......... 😉 while I was setting the stove it occured to me that one massive factor no one has mentioned is the internet and how we use it to communicate.

There is little to engage or debate with. History tells us what the Nazi's the communists, the right wing dictatorships have done, and here we are once again "listening" to people preaching that shit all over again.

Its peoples willingness under free speech like wobbliscots ramblings that let let these apologists have a fair crack of the whip, and societies weakness that they flourish once again.

Time to end it.

Actually I might change my mind. Seeing Ninfan get his a** handed to him on a plate on the chartlotsville thread is epically funny.

Yunki going for 2 for 2 10 pagers 🙂