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Is it still okay to just blunder into a long thread without reading anything and say you are all wrong as long as I don't call you idiots?
Back when we were talking about the BBC a little while ago, we had all the left-wingers saying it was too right-wing and all the right-wingers saying it was too left-wing. The conclusion was that they're probably doing OK.
After reading this thread, I think we're probably doing OK too.
Mumsnet has maximum number of posts per thread (1000 I think) and then it's automatically closed and a new thread has to be started if you want to continue to debate/argue over the subject, might help to stop long running threads rumbling along with nothing much new being said on them
Cant wait until everyone is in their 90’s and reverts back to their former more youthful childish core personalities
STW 2040:
Is tj the one on the left or the right?
But the people on the forum have now all grown up a bit and become less liberal and more dare I say it on STW – conservative in their middle age.
Interesting that you consider being right wing synonymous with grown up. Pretty much everyone I know has drifted leftwards as they age, as the callous injustices of the right become ever more obvious. There have been a few more blatant right-wingers on here in the last couple of years, but I don't think they are long termers who have become less lefty in middle age.
Overall, I don't actually think that things are worse than they were. I've been here since GoFar, and there have always been some very heated arguments and always people that the mods had to ban, both briefly and permanently. It might be interesting to know how many bans have been handed out over the years.
Lolz at Kryton!
Is that you next to me?
I miss the picolax days, but still love a good lurking look at the serious stuff
Interesting that you consider being right wing synonymous with grown up. Pretty much everyone I know has drifted leftwards as they age.
That's me, always thought I'd gone against the grain because conventional wisdom says you drift to the right as you age. Isn't the quote 'if you're not left wing when you're young, you have no heart, if you're not conservative when you're old you have no brain'. I hope that's not true as it makes me a heartless idiot!
Insofar as I followed politics in my youth, I took on my parents Conservatism. My childhood was filled with power cuts, rampant inflation, picket lines, strikes and what seemed to me to be unions and the left destroying the country and turning us into 'the sick man of Europe'. I admired Thatcher for standing up to them. I joined the army at 16 and did a full career which entrenched some of those views. Whilst I am proud of my military service it's not exactly conducive to broadening your political outlook! My early politics were a result of my environment and upbringing and not really examining or questioning what I was told.
I have since grown up, done different jobs, travelled, educated myself and become much more aware of social justice issues and the inequalities in society. I am very much more liberal/centre left in my outlook now and am appalled by the lying charlatans in power currently. I have had to completely reject things I used to take as concrete fact. It's all very unsettling for a 57 year old fella! Whilst I am now very suspicious of anyone with concrete, unwavering faith in any set of beliefs - I do envy the lost simplicity of that.
I suspect there are many more who CBA with it these days as well.
This.
I tend to just head for the Bike Forum these days and avoid the Chat.
It also looks like the Mods haven’t read Marks very first post on this thread. Maybe I should Report it to draw it to their attention?
You should whip your colleagues into shape #secretmod
Mumsnet has maximum number of posts per thread (1000 I think) and then it’s automatically closed and a new thread has to be started if you want to continue to debate/argue over the subject, might help to stop long running threads rumbling along with nothing much new being said on them
On the other hand, those threads may keep people occupied who would otherwise be a potential PITA everywhere else. (-: I'd rather one long-running thread than forty short near-identical ones.
Interesting that you consider being right wing synonymous with grown up.
It's often synonymous with being old. Grown up, not so much.
#bitofpoliticsthere #mynamesbeneltongoodnight
Genuinely thought this thread was going to be about cookie consent.
I’d rather one long-running thread than forty short near-identical ones.
That's a good point - makes it easy to keep track of which threads to avoid.
I’ve not read any replies to Mark’s original post, but the attitudes and general argumentative, ill feeling on here has been a thing for years and is the reason I stopped regularly participating, or even visiting.
I honestly don't think it's changed very much since I first started using this site 50 years or so back. Mostly it's just the way forums are. Stuff I learned running a very busy forum from an editorial stance for over decade included the unfortunate reality that a small number of vocal, unpleasant posters can set the tone for a whole community. The answer to this, is simply to get rid of them fast. I wonder if volunteer moderators are more reluctant to do this than 'owners'.
There's also the thing that some people still think forums are games rather than 'real life' and you say whatever you like without it meaning anything, while others quite reasonably realise that people are real and should be treated with respect. When the two tendencies meet, things tend not to end well, smileys or no smileys.
In essence it's really simple though. I would never say anything to someone online that I wouldn't face to face. I occasionally do, but I try not to.
But I have somehow missed the 'deterioration in politeness in discussions on here of late' that Mark cites, but maybe I've just been reading the wrong threads.
Yes. I'm real, even on here.
Insofar as I followed politics in my youth, I took on my parents Conservatism. My childhood was filled with power cuts, rampant inflation, picket lines, strikes and what seemed to me to be unions and the left destroying the country and turning us into ‘the sick man of Europe’. I admired Thatcher for standing up to them...... My early politics were a result of my environment and upbringing and not really examining or questioning what I was told.
I have since grown up, done different jobs, travelled, educated myself and become much more aware of social justice issues and the inequalities in society. I am very much more liberal/centre left in my outlook now and am appalled by the lying charlatans in power currently.
Very similar to me, and a large part of my education in the last 20 years has been on here.
I have somehow missed the ‘deterioration in politeness in discussions on here of late’ that Mark cites,
I'd blame the snowflakes but we already have an incessant thread for that.
But I have somehow missed the ‘deterioration in politeness in discussions on here of late’ that Mark cites, but maybe I’ve just been reading the wrong threads.
I've not seen too much of it either (at least I don't think I have, hopefully I'm not ignorantly participating) but I tend to avoid the long running threads where I think a lot of this takes place. IME once a thread gets past about 5 pages it deteriorates into polarised viewpoints with no desire to find compromise, at which point it becomes wasted effort even trying to engage.
The answer to this, is simply to get rid of them fast. I wonder if volunteer moderators are more reluctant to do this than ‘owners’.
The only 'reluctance' would be in so far as it's considered a last resort. We occasionally see posts here claiming "well, I was once banned for [insert trivial, petty reason here]" and it's simply untrue. The only way you'll get a suspension is either because other methods have failed or your behaviour is exceptional. Permanent bans are unusual and again you'd have to be either such a persistent offender that the Mods are left with little choice, or do something truly dramatic.
No-one is considered special though, the team wouldn't swerve giving someone a holiday just because they were a Full Member for instance. Paying two quid doesn't give you a free pass to be a bellend. In rare cases we had Subs issue refunds.
I dont really get involved on here as my opinions tend to not be so popular, which i accept as part of the fun of being involved on a forum. I only comment now if its something i feel i can comment on without bringing the wrath of STW onto me. I am kinda putting my head above with this comment. It ended for me when someone started making derogatory comments about my daughter in retaliation to something (Cant even remember what), i reported to Mark and he responded back with something akin to 'if you want to play the game, dont moan when they bite back'. Fair enough. Its your forum. But i am not surprised that this attitude has filtered down over time and become an issue.
The only ‘reluctance’ would be in so far as it’s considered a last resort. We occasionally see posts here claiming “well, I was once banned for [insert trivial, petty reason here]” and it’s simply untrue.
Indeed. One such case in this thread claims they were practically innocent. I’m not sure suggesting the use of a claw hammer to a group of people is exactly innocent.
No-one is considered special though
Your mum says I am.
I blame all the anger and negativity on the changes to the classifieds. It was all love, joy, drivetrains and green fields as far as the eye could see before ‘the big change’
I’m not sure suggesting the use of a claw hammer to a group of people is exactly innocent.
Do not dispense unwanted DIY advice. Got it!
FunkyDunc Free Member
I miss the childish banter of 20 years ago, and the blatant taking the pee out of people, the constant bans that were handed out and the resurfacing of people.
I joined this forum about 20 years ago. It was a different place back then, it probably felt a bit smaller as a lot of the regulars seemed to know each other beyond the forum, plus bike industry people like Cy and Brant were more present. There probably was a lot more kidding around, but that also included stuff like some people trying to trick people into following Goatse links and the like, or impersonating other forum members (back then the username was just a free text field you could fill as you pleased).
Since then the forum has grown, Singletrack as a business has grown and the world and the law's attitude to online spaces has changed significantly. While it's possible to miss the (potentially rose tinted) forum of yesteryear it's not possible to go back to it.
i reported to Mark and he responded back with something akin to ‘if you want to play the game, dont moan when they bite back’.
If by your own admission you have "unpopular opinions" (and I have no idea what you're referring to here), you can't expect to go around being unpopular and then run crying to teacher when someone puts you back in your box.
This is sort-of what I was just talking about. We could spin / interpret this one of two ways.
1) "Someone was making comments about my daughter, I thought this was totally out of order so I took it up with the site owner who simply mocked me."
2) "I was being an abject roaster, someone finally had enough of my shit and made a humorous comment referencing my daughter, I bypassed the established method of reporting and went straight to Mark who said 'well you've been poking bears all day, what did you expect?'"
Which of those two scenarios is closer to the mark (so to speak) I have no idea, as I've said previously I'm not great at keeping track of usernames. Point is, as Drac also just evidenced, it's quite easy to act all hard done by when the truth isn't always quite as black and white as initially presented.
I dont really get involved on here as my opinions tend to not be so popular
I'm becoming increasingly this, my views are complex and don't align with any political party or ideology, some are really quite liberal / left wing others definitely conservative with a small c. It's the blatant labelling of people with different political views as scum (TJ looking at you here) or the equating of any one with a slightly right of centre veiwpoint as selfish morons out to crush the oppressed poor, life isn't black and white and there have been plenty of destructive left wing ideologies as well as right.
It all goes back to the original post, play the argument not the man, or throw in assumptions about someone's motivations.
There probably was a lot more kidding around, but that also included stuff like some people trying to trick people into following Goatse links and the like, or impersonating other forum members
Yeah, the tag wars could be quite funny until they weren't.
There were always one or two posters who could be relied on to post some mad shit that everyone would then pile on to. Then, of course, someone posted a message to say that the mad shit posting user was no longer with us.
I think that made people a lot more aware of the harm that could be caused and took some of the fun and innocence out of the place.
Overall I think this place has a decent balance these days.
Oh, and for what it's worth,
If you'd reported the post you found questionable (again, I've no idea whether you did or not), the moderators could look it up. They could also cross-reference it against potential other complaints about the same user. This may lead to action being taken where in isolation a single complaint might not have been.
Going directly to Mark - whilst always an option - means they have no such records. Also, he's a grumpy trousers so you might well just get told to bugger off and talk to the moderators. (-: Consider it a route of escalation rather than a starting point perhaps.
There were always one or two posters who could be relied on to post some mad shit that everyone would then pile on to. Then, of course, someone posted a message to say that the mad shit posting user was no longer with us.
I think that made people a lot more aware of the harm that could be caused and took some of the fun and innocence out of the place.
Wise words.
We could all do to remember that people we're interacting with are, well, people and everyone has their own shit to deal with. And some might not be dealing with it as well as others. Doubly so in recent times.
Stay safe. Be kind.
It’s the blatant labelling of people with different political views as scum (TJ looking at you here)
You mean the quote from Bevan? when you have seen what I have of the people impoverished, damaged and forced into illhealth as a result of deliberate tory policy and that me and my partner spent our entire lives fighting for fairness for people then yes its hard not to be angry.
But the quote about scum comes from a highly respected politician who did more good for the country than most other folk
If that is unnacceptable then so be it.
[img] 
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In the spirit of this topic,
I pledge to stop posting that photo of @northwinds... on all bike maintenance threads...
I'm sorry @Northwind if i have caused you any anguish if you ever need any help with up and down in the future just let me know and i will come running with some arrows for your garage wall.
If that is unnacceptable then so be it.
You know it is. I've "enjoyed" many a joust on here with many folks, and I've never felt the need to call anyone scum, whether quoting "a famous politician" or not. There's just no need for it.
C'mon TJ, you've literally got a behaviour pattern named after you because of the way you interact with people, and in the years I've been on here, your behaviour has never changed despite enforced and self-imposed periods of absence.
Nickc
Actually its changed a lot
I am however embarrassed, abashed and ashamed that my posts have caused people to reduce their posting or even leave.
I always took this stuff to be a part of the rough and tumble of debate on here considering that what I have directed at me is far worse than I have directed at others over the piece
I guess my mistake is to think of " the posters" as a homogeneous mass so what is appropriate to some posters is appropriate to all
I did not call anyone "scum" BTW I called "!the tories" scum
Thanks for backing up my thoughts Cougar.
If by your own admission you have “unpopular opinions” (and I have no idea what you’re referring to here), you can’t expect to go around being unpopular and then run crying to teacher when someone puts you back in your box.
If you read my post. I didnt actually say i was bothered about being (In your nice way of keeping it civil) 'put back in my box' I reported someone for reducing the conversation down to insulting my daughter. I took Marks comments on board and did what you suggested by climbing back in my box. All i was trying to do was point out that you (A mod or ex mod) and the likes of Mark are just as guilty of feeding this craze for nastiness. You had no reason to make the above comment other than to antagonize. As you say you dont even know what im referring to. But you still had to have the last word. Its the way of the forum now
Nickc - if you refer to " the Edinburgh defense" that was created by a poster on here specifically to humiliate me and is false in its premise. Its actually really offensive to me.
Maybe he was only joking?
Its actually really offensive to me.
If you find it offensive, you're not shy from using it when it suits - of all places on thread about the weather only last week
3, 2, 1....
Can we please try to stay civil in this thread.
There is somebody posting on this thread complaining that others provoke people. I've seen this poster make physical threats - first cleaming they were big and hard, then something along the lines of "I'll see you out on the trails and we'll 'discuss' it then".
There is another poster on this thread suggesting we should be kind. I've seen this poster make nasty, bitter, personal comments to other posters because they did not agree with him.
I'm sure if someone could be bothered to go through my past post they'd find examples that would show I've done similar (well - not the physical threats), my point is that nobody should assume they are the good guy here. Remember that having the last word does not mean you have 'won', and that someone who disagrees with you is not necessarily a bad person.
If that is unnacceptable then so be it.
Of course it's unacceptable and more importantly completely unnecessary.
If you have to resort to personal insults then you have lost the argument a long time ago and just don't realise it.
Incredible Ironing!
Talking of last words.
Closed