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Oil; we're running out - burn it while you can!
or,
get used to living near your place of work / working near where you live.
lift sharing (the horror!).
not flying to your flat in Croatia every weekend.
higher food prices - especially meat.
etc.
etc.
this is all stuff that we'll have to get used to, high petrol/diesel prices are mostly taxes now, but think of it as training.
£1.20/litre? - i promise that our grandchildren will look back on that as irresponsibly low.
by some measures, peak oil was in 2006 (maximum exports)
**sits feeling smug at 72mpg petrol scooter sitting in the garage**
Bugger - I run a diesel pick-up that I just did a 700 mile round trip in because I was told there was snow up north. There was a little light slush in one of the car parks you northern ponces. The only good news is that it proved a little more economical than the 6 litre V12 petrol alternative but definitely not as comfortable or fast. 57mph max speed on the hill up the M62 and 96 VMAX on the descent.
Don't worry, I have killed an American to offset my carbon footprint.
ahwiles - Member
£1.20/litre? - i promise that our grandchildren will look back on that as irresponsibly low.
Meanwhile the US are jumping up and down about their jump in price to [url= http://www.theaa.com/onlinenews/allaboutcars/fuel/2010/november2010.pdf ]50p/litre![/url]
by the very fact that the roads are absolutely stuffed full of cars id say its not too expensive, not for the vast majority!
WorldClassAccidentDon't worry, I have killed an American to offset my carbon footprint.
Good work old chap
i think there should be another protest regarding oil... i see it like this!
i need fuel to get to run my business. my employees need to come to work for wages without them there are more unemployed people!
then my business goes under then im also unemployed thus taking then 26 more people potentially on benefits.
the economy isnt going to get any better as long as people are having to pay more in tax when they are getting an annual pay rise???
i havent gave my emplyees one in 3 years, this year is the first as an appreciation of bearing with us through the troubling times...
next point is, i would go to work by train and many others from work also said they would as i said i would subsidies their train or bus monthly cards except, as you would of seen this last month. national rail has come to a complete stop as too buses. now how is someone going to make business when the goverment should have really learnt alot from last year. we are getting colder winters and experts say due to global warming, so the experts no it!??
also why would i want to sit next to someone else on a cold bus/train and pay those rediculous prices!
so as above stated i think i read 20p for 200 miles or so in a car. why would i pay £16.90 for a 30 mile journey when it would cost buttons in my nice warm car?
public transport has to reduce prices dramatically before i would even think of the idea of getting on a train ever again
just my opinion
6 litre V12 petrol
Sounds interesting...
All I have done is state it seems strange to me that the same company has adopted this pricing policy with one store selling the same product at a more expensive price than the one down the road.
Not strange at all, it's common practise, for the reasons above. I was only intending to have a small bit of jesting, if I have offended you I apologise fully and unreservedly for it was not my intention.
However, on a semantic point, I wasn't telling you what you thought, merely stating what your post made it look like you thought 🙂
**sits feeling smug at 72mpg petrol scooter sitting in the garage**
When you can get a family sized car that does 72mpg it seems pretty rubbish for a scooter 🙂
we are getting colder winters and experts say due to global warming, so the experts no it!??
Sigh.. not this again... Global warming = climate change = unpredictable and unusual weather in different places = exactly what we've had.
Meanwhile the US are jumping up and down about their jump in price to 50p/litre!
There's a lot of people budgeted right up to the hilt in the US (like everywhere else) and what with places being very far apart they might have little choice but to do a lot of miles. They pay little tax on fuel which means that they are proportionally much more exposed to fluctuations in oil prices - for example last time there was a big hike prices almost doubled. When you are hard up a doubling in an essential household bill is a big deal.
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so as above stated i think i read 20p for 200 miles or so in a car. why would i pay £16.90 for a 30 mile journey when it would cost buttons in my nice warm car?
Surely it's not as simple as that? Your sums might need looking at. 20p for 200 miles in a car??
[url= http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/running_costs/diesel2009.pdf ]These figures suggest a lowest of 23p per mile.[/url] I'm estimating 15000 miles a year for you if your journey is 30 miles each way, so, more like 30p per mile which would be £9. Still cheaper, I grant you.
I think people who don't own cars should get reduced travel on public transport.
When you can get a family sized car that [s]does[/s] claims to do 72mpg it seems pretty rubbish for a scooter.
What the manufacturers claim and what's achievable in the real world (not on a rolling road) are two different things.
The official figure for my car is 84ish mpg and the best I've ever achieved is 74 mpg, (not even within 10%) and believe me I've really tried, as soon as you start dealing with traffic and hills any chance of getting near the claimed figure goes out the window.
I'll say it again, "My gas guzzler is costing me just over [u]8p per mile in diesel[/u]" and the excise duty is zero 😛
I got spanked $2.11 per litre for 98 the other day. Ouch, filling the RS4 was $150. Oh well, I only drive it 2-3 times a week and ride the rest so its just part of owning a flash 4.2ltr V8 !
[s]E[/s]very little help[s]s[/s]
there, fixed it for you 😉
anyway, I "filled up" the Saab this evening, £63 worth of diesel at 123.9p a litre. Should be worth around 550 miles, give or take
we are getting colder winters and experts say due to global warming, so the experts no it!??
This is why university needs to stay cheap, to stop moronic statements like this.
Bus/train travel is too expensive for what you get, though. I did the sums earlier this year, and including buying the car, insuring it, getting it through its MOT and tyres there was a saving of £1000/year over the train for the 1 hour commute I did this summer.
That was on a reduced "annual" ticket as well. And the car was quicker.
Just wait till the yanks get a taste for Diesel, then were ****ed!
Hopefully the germans will continue making a fortune selling them old petrol technology and drag it out as long as possible before they decide to introduce the modern diesed to them.
If diesel is only 20% of the fraction of fuel oil then thats where teh issues start
cozz - Member
£1.28 here in nottscost me £82 to fill my ford ranger today !
use about 5 tankfulls a month - costs me more than my mortgage !!
Jeez - do you run it until it's on fumes? Mine never seems to cost over £70 (around 55 ltrs).
2 tankfulls a week in mine though 🙁
Dunno how you do your sums spokescycles.
IOts cheaper and quicker for the journeys I do to use a mix of bike and train.
Edinburgh / Glasgow - 90 miles return - thats at last £20 in a car amd more like £40. £15 ish on the train. Takes 50 mins each way. train every 15 mins. Comfy seat, read the paper, no stress in traffic
Edinburgh / Stirling - similar. Its a no brainer.
Most people grossly underestimate the cost of a car.
TJ - you been on the ed - glasgow train lately? it's a nightmare - there are people on it that smell.
Surrounded By Zulus - Member
TJ - you been on the ed - glasgow train lately? it's a nightmare - [b]there are people on it that smell.[/b]
That [i]was[/i] TJ
Bus/train travel is too expensive for what you get, though.
It is generally, although if you travel infrequently and have time to book ahead, it can be quite cheap. For example, I went to Bradford and back for just twenty-nine pounds fifty. That's what, over 400 miles all in? A return from Waterloo to Farnborough cost almost as much, for about a 60-mile trip.
Travelling via public transport in London, if you use an Oyster card, is actually pretty good value for money. Speshly if you consider Congestion Charging. Yet still far too many people insist on having a car. Most journeys are less than 5 miles or something; many could cycle/get the bus, but are too snobbish to do so. Idiots. Most people I know who actually own cars use them so seldom they actually become appallingly bad value for money, over time.
As for those complaining about their gas-guzzling motors; would a smaller more economical car not be better? Cheaper, no? Any need for such thirsty beasts?
Time for a tax based on milage? Because it seems the more someone uses a car, the cheaper it becomes. Which is silly, no? Surely it should be the other way round, if we're serious about cutting emissions and that.
Oil rules though eh? The Car is King.
TandemJeremy - MemberEdinburgh / Glasgow - 90 miles return - thats at last £20 in a car amd more like £40.
90 miles is less than two gallons of diesel. That's a lot less than £20.
The car takes me from my house to my destination, not just city centre to city centre, leaving me to find an alternative means of transport for each end of the journey.
The car leaves when I'm ready and I don't have to keep to someone else's schedule.
Whenever I get in my car, I'm guaranteed a seat and my choice of musical entertainment - or even silence if I want it.
My reasoning behind using a gas guzzler is mostly for my business, carrying half a ton of tools and materials, whilst having a vehicle I can also use to cart the family around in - it's my only vehicle and personal mileage equates to approx 10% of total use.
Oh, and despite lugging gear around - I'm at a dirfferent location every day, so train not practical.
Can't find them now.
Either way, it was something like this-
90 mile both ways commute, 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year, 45mpg car, 117.9p petrol (average through the year)-
£2572.20
Insurance- £400
Car- £500
Tax- £120
MOT- £150
Tyres- £100
= £3842
Train (annual ticket)= £2768
Bus to and from Train Station (for those without bikes)= £960
=£3728
So, no, actually, not cheaper. But obviously the cost of the car is spread out over many years and insurance goes down every year. And you get the car to use whenever you like, and to go exactly where you like.
I guess I've spent about £50 on parking this year if I include a fine I got too, so there is that to factor in as well but even so, spreading the cost of the car out over the years it works out cheaper.
As per druid - I love my time in my car too. Personal space, music, fags etc. and no smelly people (apart from me).
My car stinks. It's really just dandyhorse storage so it smells of foist...
Spokecycles; the journey you speak of is between two large cities. Now, I can't help but wonder,why on Earth someone would live in one, but then commute to the other. Just seems mad, or you want the 'luxury' of living in one over the other. These are choices people make. You could easily live and work in the same city. So the expense of commuting isn't ultimately enforced on them, just down to their lifestyle choice.
The car is a luxury far too many are unwilling to admit.
Elfinsafety - Member
Spokecycles; the journey you speak of is between two large cities. Now, I can't help but wonder,why on Earth someone would live in one, but then commute to the other. Just seems mad, or you want the 'luxury' of living in one over the other. These are choices people make. You could easily live and work in the same city. So the expense of commuting isn't ultimately enforced on them, just down to their lifestyle choice.
Up to a point, I agree with you. However, for lots of folk, there is little choice - e.g. if married and both partners work, there's no guarantee that both will find work in the same city. Now, you can claim that having two incomes is also a lifestyle choice - but then you're single 😉
The car is a luxury far too many are unwilling to admit.
There are plenty of things plenty of people could do without. Personally, living in a double glazed, centrally heated, insulated modern house, I have no real need to light my gas fire - but I do.
I suppose I don't moan about the price of my gas bill though - that's not to say energy companies aren't ripping us off mind you.
However, for lots of folk, there is little choice - e.g. if married and both partners work, there's no guarantee that both will find work in the same city.
You mean, the work that they want at the salary they want, more like. Fair enough though. I spose anyone would want the best they can get. But again, it's down to choices, isn't it?
druidh - you do not include the rest of the costs of the car including parking. still as you rightly pointed out this is the sort of debate that just goes round in circles
I like the comfy, convenient, unstressful, quick and cheap train.
spoke cycles you also forget costs, servicing and repairs and yo really think a £500 car will last many years without repairs?
Teej- all the repairs my car has had this year are shown in that list apart from a smashed window. And my £500 car has never had an MOT over £200 in all its 13 years on this earth. The car actually cost £6000 11 years ago, so let's call it £545 a year and reducing by the year.
Elfin- no, that's my commute to work from the summer. Living with the woman who can't drive and commuting in to where I work. It's a journey I make at least once a week now still. I go by car because it costs me less. Next year I'll probably be back on the 1 hour commute pony because she can't drive and wants to be within 1/2 hour bus journey of her uni while I will have a car opening up masses of opportunities (one car journey I looked at is 1hr 10mins- the train is 2 1/2 because of deviations).
My old man drives a 1 hour commute each day- the car is the cheapest way and it lets him live where he likes (in't country) and drive into the city.
I'll admit 1 hour commutes aren't common, or particularly desirable, but I think the principle still applies that for a lot of commutes outside of the biggest of cities a car is the most convenient and often the cheapest way.
There does need to be a big shift for the whole nation and this isn't going to happen until public transport is cheaper. But public transport won't get cheaper until people use it more. I think we need someone more liberal than DC to make the first step, slash public transport prices and get bums on seats to lower the costs.
This is part of why I think electric bikes are so cool- out here 10-15 mile commutes are common and if they are the exception that is on a bus route the bus is monumentally expensive (a journey which is £2 in fuel in the car is £7.50 on the bus!). Electric bikes are cheaper than both the bus and the car and open up a rural commute like this to someone who doesn't want to do a sport or arrive to work having done a 3 minute mile on the bike. Hopefully they'll cotton on.
Elfinsafety - MemberYou mean, the work that they want at the salary they want, more like. Fair enough though. I spose anyone would want the best they can get. But again, it's down to choices, isn't it?
Again, I'm not 100% arguing with you, but why should either partner put up with a less-than-satisfactory job? And how would you decide which one had to compromise?
The truth is that todays society is based upon a large number of folk having ready access to cars, whether that is for entertainment, shopping or work. It [s]would[/s] will take decades to reverse that (think of all those out-of-town shopping developments for a start).
TandemJeremy - MemberI like the comfy, convenient, unstressful, quick and cheap train.
I like my comfy, convenient, unstressful, quick and cheap car.
Not many trains going to and from Glentress of an evening these days TJ?
SpokesCycles - MemberThere does need to be a big shift for the whole nation and this isn't going to happen until public transport is cheaper. But public transport won't get cheaper until people use it more. I think we need someone more liberal than DC to make the first step, slash public transport prices and get bums on seats to lower the costs.
Err- many train routes are already running at, or near, capacity so unless you want to bus it everywhere....
In reference to Druidh's point-
It's not so much the work I want and the salary I want (and similarly, my mum and dad live in 1 place and work 45mins-1hr away in opposite directions- the same applies for my mum who was unemployed for a year) as the work I can get these days. I'm applying for jobs now and will go for the nearest one I can.
My mum applied for hundreds of jobs and took the first one offered- she applied for lots of jobs that said "you're too experienced". She'd not be able to do this job without her car.
I do agree with the principle of public transport, but it does just cost too much.
Nope - the beggers took the train away 😥
Just pulling sokescycles up really - for what he was doing public transport is cheaper as he has had to admit.
RAC costs - there is a nice misprint but has it 35 p per mile upwards.
Spokescycles - most public transport is significantly cheaper than the real cost of a car.
My old man drives a 1 hour commute each day- the car is the cheapest way and [b]it lets him live where he likes[/b] (in't country) and drive into the city.
See, choice. Not necessity.
There does need to be a big shift for the whole nation and this isn't going to happen until public transport is cheaper. But public transport won't get cheaper until people use it more. I think we need someone more liberal than DC to make the first step, slash public transport prices and get bums on seats to lower the costs.
Personally, I'd like to see a re-nationalisation of all rail and bus services (still bloody subsidised by the taxpayer anyway), and then further subsidised from revenue generated by making car ownership and non-essential travel more expensive by taxing it more heavily.
But yes, Car is King, so we're a long, long way off any decent solution really.
I think it's also true that the price of petrol and diesel needs to go higher. I like the idea of scrapping the Road Fund Licence and just having a tax on fuel usage.
Of course, I expect the left-wing ranties will come along any minute complaining that soon, only the wealthy will be able to afford to drive....
I worked for the same company for 22 years, but due to takeovers and re-structuring, found myself commuting a 140 mile round trip each day to Wolverhampton.
Once, someone actually had the audacity to suggest that I moved from the Derbyshire Dales to the West Midlands. I'll end my comments here due to the recent clamp down on swearing.
Err- many train routes are already running at, or near, capacity so unless you want to bus it everywhere....
There is that too. So there needs to be more money pumped into it in the first place. Which you won't get because people won't use it because of the price. Etc. Etc.
Quite happy with that Druidh - something I have said for ages. if fuel was £20 a gallon how long till 100+ mpg cars?
spokescycles - PUBLIC TRANSPORT IS CHEAPER THATN A CAR MOST ROUTES MOST TIMES
This is too civilised, can someone please say something outrageous so we can get back to normal?
Yer all a bunch of snobbish losers who wont get in a train in case you might have to meet a member of the lower classes.
That do spokescycles?