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Fireman Sam creator David Jones held over veil remark
David Jones David Jones said his comments to Gatwick Airport security staff were not intended to be offensive
The creator of children's character Fireman Sam has criticised the treatment he received after he was detained at Gatwick Airport.
David Jones was held for questioning as he passed through x-ray scanners after asking why a veiled Muslim woman was not checked by airport security.
Mr Jones said he had been flying to Portugal and joked about wearing his scarf over his face.
Gatwick Airport said his comments had offended some security staff.
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“Start Quote
It was a quip, but when I got to the end... I was bagged by a security guard”
David Jones
Former fireman Mr Jones, 67, was on his way to Faro in the Algarve, where he now lives.
He was asked to place his belongings, including his scarf, into a tray to pass through the scanner.
However, as he did so, he spotted the woman pass through the area without showing her face.
Speaking to Radio 4's Today programme, he recalled how he said to officials: "I wonder what would happen if I covered my face with my scarf.
"It was a quip. And I expected the guy to say: 'Yeah, I know what you mean mate' but when I got to the end and was putting all my stuff back on, I was bagged by a security guard."
Mr Jones said he was told: "You've made a remark which someone finds offensive. Come with me."
'Bizarre situation'
He denied making an offensive remark, saying it was "an observation, nothing more", but he was told he should apologise to a Muslim security guard who was nearby when the comment was made.
Mr Jones described the situation as bizarre, but said he was not arrested even though he was held "for quite a while".
He was freed after agreeing the remark could be regarded as offensive.
In a statement, Gatwick Airport said there was no legal requirement to remove religious headwear to establish identity in airport security areas, and that "when the Muslim lady in traditional dress passed through security no alarms activated".
"Some security colleagues were offended by some of the comments made and supervisors asked the passenger to return landside and engaged in a discussion during which the passenger requested the presence of the police.
"The matter was resolved and the passenger was later re-screened and did not miss his flight," it said.
Speaking on Monday, Mr Jones said he was taking advice and considering whether to pursue the matter further following the incident on 19 February.
Mr Jones, originally from West London and a former member of the Household Cavalry, dreamt up the idea of Fireman Sam with fellow firefighter Dave Gingell when they worked at Clerkenwell station in London.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-17181861 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-17181861[/url]
was this an offensive remark and valid reason to "hold" him?
On the face of it, it does not seem to be offensive, however, you would need to be there to understand the context, and hear how it was said. Two sides to every story.
[i]was this an offensive remark and valid reason to "hold" him?[/i]
I really daren't say.
was this an offensive remark and valid reason to "hold" him?
More pertinently, even if it was an offensive remark, was that valid reason to hold him?
More pertinently, even if it was an offensive remark, was that valid reason to hold him?
This.
On the face of it, it does not seem to be offensive, however, you would need to be there to understand the context, and hear how it was said. [s]Two[/s] three sides to every story.
😉
What a waste of time!! He's clearly racist and should have been banned from flying forever 🙄
there was no legal requirement to remove religious headwear to establish identity in airport security areas,
I find that quite worrying. How the hell do they know who is actually under the veil then...
I read this story with interest. I thought they tried to put too much spin on him bring the creator of Fireman Sam. As if this was some evidence of him being innocent as he's responsible for creating a loveable family cartoon character.
How could they tell it was a Muslim lady if they can't see her face, you wouldn't be allowed through with a crash helmet on would you tell them it was a preventative measure.
Cant mention them, doesnt everyone know that now.
So someone makes a remark in public that may be construed as offensive? Dear me I fear for this country sometimes, I really do.
Maybe the passport photo is taken with the veil on?
I find that quite worrying. How the hell do they know who is actually under the veil then...
I'm guessing it was a cover-the-head hijab, rather than a full-face burqa.
Still, offensive remarks should not IMO be cause for detention unless likely to lead to violence.
[i]Maybe the passport photo is taken with the veil on? [/i]
😆
The Muslim community does seem to get upset about things in a more vocal manner than their counterparts from other religions.
To the point where typing that and thinking about posting it made me think more than twice.
I find Post boxes offensive.
On a more serious note, would ninjas also need to remove their face mask or is there one rule for religions and another for tradesmen?
He should know just to keep his gob shut these days. Rightly or wrongly, keep schtum and move along...
I wonder what our friends at homeland security in the US do about it? Somehow I imagine they take a different viewpoint.
This seems well out of order to me. He was detained and made to apologise to someone who had no connection to the person he was remarking on.
The purpose of the search is to prevent the passage of weapons, not confirm ID. ID is checked at point of embarkation by the airline. If for example someone declines to remove a religious veil, the airline simply refuses them to board and they wouldn't fly. I'm not sure I believe he was detained. Sounds like a load of bullshine.
Sounds like a collision of ****s; ****s remark offends ****s, result: knobbery.
[i]So someone makes a remark in public that may be construed as offensive? Dear me I fear for this country sometimes, I really do[/i]
Me too Bigyinn, but this country is well past that point now. No one can comment on 'certain things', either for real or in jest (& some crank on here will misconstrue that comment)
No good 'fearing' for this country that was once ours. Wer'e screwed.
if only his remark had been veiled
I think we've heard one side of a story.
I mean for a bloke who just wanted to get on a plane without fuss, he seems to be talking about it quite a lot.
What would have happened if he had refused to apologise??
emsz - Member
I think we've heard one side of a story.
THIS
I thought they tried to put too much spin on him bring the creator of Fireman Sam. As if this was some evidence of him being innocent as he's responsible for creating a loveable family cartoon character.
Well I thought they played it down.
According to my paper Mr David Jones isn't just the creator of Fireman Sam, he's also a "war hero" a "former member of the Household Cavalry" and "an all-round nice bloke".
[url= http://www.****/debate/article-2107084/Welcome-Britain-people-protected-prejudice-unless-white.html ]Welcome to Britain, where all people are protected from prejudice, unless they are white[/url]
And just in case you've forgotten how lovable Fireman Sam is, here's a picture :
[img] 
[/img]
Ernie_lynch, was he wrong or was he right in what he said? Or should he have kept his thoughts to himself?
[i]What would have happened if he had refused to apologise??[/i]
IIRC from the radio this morning. He didn't apologise for causing offence. But apologised for using words that may be construed by some people as being offensive.
The whole thing sounds a bit bizzare.
Anyway scroll to 2 hrs:38 minutes if you want to hear.
[url] http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/default.stm [/url]
He was absolutely right, how can anyone pass through the scanners with their faces covered ? How can they be scanned ?
As my paper says :
[i]"What a ghastly, Orwellian disgrace the detention of war hero David Jones at Gatwick airport is for daring to question why Muslims can pass through scanners with their faces completely covered".[/i]
Don't listen to what deluded has said - I'm sure he hasn't got a clue what he's talking about.
ernie 😀
essel,
Be careful not to conflate aspects of this matter. No matter what you are wearing everybody gets searched for SECURITY reasons. In terms of veils - there is no power to require someone to remove it to check their IDENTIFICATION, however the airline can ask you to remove it to board their plane, and as I said, if you refuse - they just tell you to shove off and your all inclusive to Benidorm ends there!
Thanks Ernie, bullshine was talking same.
[i]they just tell you to shove off and your all inclusive to Benidorm ends there![/i]
Show me a person in a (religeous oriented) veil in Benidorm & I'll show my big fat ar$e in WH Smiths window.
I'm not sure I believe he was detained. Sounds like a load of bullshine
I heard him tell the story on the phone on Radio 4 this morning. I THINK he said it was a full cover job but I am not sure. He did say he was detained though, but it couldn't have been for long because he caught his plane.
He did sound like he loved the sound of his own voice a bit, mind. Not that I am going to judge the story because of that.
essel,
I suspect ernie is provoking you with his deliberately sarcastic/mischievous -
He was absolutely right, how can anyone pass through the scanners with their faces covered ? How can they be scanned ?
It was an X-RAY scanner FFS looking for weapons and such like. Nothing to do with issues of identification.
sometimes the people being offended need to just accept the fact that they're offended and that by being so that's their choice and doesn't give them the right to punish someone else for thinking differently...
Deluded, don't be deluded but I know what Ernie was saying (he has actually provoked me before!) & I know the difference between 'looking for weapons' & 'ID'!
I'm reasonably qualified in the use of various Rapiscan Xray machines!
Prison service training.
as an aside, I know someone who was an animator based in Cardiff and worked on Fireman Sam
they were in the process of building a series that could be sold in the USA so were reviewing storylines pretty carefully, and one of the US based salesman opined that in order not to risk upsetting the kids it would be better for Fireman Sam not to have to deal with fires
If I wasn't told the story first hand I wouldn't have believed it
i think crikey has hit the knob on the head
crikey - Member
Sounds like a collision of ****s; ****s remark offends ****s, result: knobbery.
Agree with people taking offence to easily though.
munrobiker - MemberThe Muslim community does seem to get upset about things in a more vocal manner than their counterparts from other religions.
Anyone would think they're on the defensive for some reason.
He didn't apologise for causing offence. But apologised for using words that may be construed by some people as being offensive.
Ah, the good old non-apology. Well it worked for Ms Abbott.