I'm not sure why so many people are missing this - I'm sure Merc management weren't under any illusions that LH didn't have lots of extra pace if he'd needed it, which does put a slightly different perspective on the radio messages they were giving him (and the response from LH suggests that he knew that they knew).
This is what I've been saying. A superb bit of driving from LH, IMO.
A superb bit of driving from LH, IMO.
Not really as it didn't work, worth a punt yes, but superb hardly.
Good point made above about the undercut in response to my previous post.
What did Lauda ask DC?
Merc have the best car and pretty anyone decent could replace LH and they'd still be winning.
Is there any subject you can't talk crap about?
Merc have the best car and pretty anyone decent could replace LH and they'd still be winning.
Depends if that someone is good enough to generate enough data for Nico "I need more data" Rosberg.
If Lewis went to say Ferrari or Red Bull, and Nico's new team mate was someone up and coming who's a clear #2 driver, then Nico would be in a fight with a lesser car for the championship.
Merc have the best car and pretty anyone decent could replace LH and they'd still be winning.
Same could be said for Webber against Vettel - he was a very good driver but could never consistently beat Vettel. And also DC against Mika at McLaren, and going back further Berger against Senna.
The best are the best for a reason.
(You can't include Schumachers team-mates as they were hobbled!).
Muffin I don't disagree, F1 is in my view engineering lead - the car is 80-90%. In that eespect it's very much like sailing where organisers understand to get close racing you have to put everyone in the same boat as otherwise it's generally an easy win for someone based on superior design.
Is there any subject you can't talk crap about?
IMO more than half the drivers in the Championship would have finished first or second had they been in the Mercedes, Button included and he was 15th. Hamilton is a better driver than Rosberg but would nowhere in 2013-16 seasons in any other car. In my view in a non competitive car (ie anything else) Hamilton would lose the plot completely.
https://www.formula1.com/en/championship/results/2016-driver-standings.html
EDiT: Pondo so looking down that list why don't you tell me which of those drivers put in a Mercedes Hamilton would have beaten to take 1st or 2nd in the Championship had be had his choice of Ferrari, Red Bull, Toro Rosso, Williams, McLaren ... in fact LH can have any car he wants other than the Merc. Like the other drivers he would have ben 100+ points back even if he could have held it together mentally in my view there is not a snowballs chance in hell Hamilton would have beaten Rosberg in the Merc in any other car.
Oh jambers - F1 is a comeptition for teams and drivers - it's a constructor's prototype formula, where teams are required to design and build their own car to compete (though Haas are stretching that a bit). That means that the combination of driver and car is what is important, always has been.
How many WDCs have won in the last 10 or 20 years without being in the best car? Alonso in the Benetton and maybe Vettel's first win, but most years it's the best of the 2 drivers who happens to be in the best car.
But they don't 'happen to be' in the best car - they are talented and determined drivers who work their way into a team where they feel they can challenge for the title. That's why Schumi went to Ferrari, that's why Vettel went to Ferrari, why Lewis went to Merc, why Alonso went to McLaren (twice), why Button played contract roulette at the start of his career.
It's like saying anyone could earn millions if they worked as a fund manager for Goldman Sachs.
While this is a good point...
But they don't 'happen to be' in the best car - they are talented and determined drivers who work their way into a team where they feel they can challenge for the title.
...I reckon this is still true:
IMO more than half the drivers in the Championship would have finished first or second had they been in the Mercedes, Button included and he was 15th.
Maybe not more than half field exactly but the point stands I reckon.
Is there any subject you can't talk crap about?
IMO more than half the drivers in the Championship would have finished first or second had they been in the Mercedes, Button included and he was 15th.
That's a bit different to saying -
Merc have the best car and pretty anyone decent could replace LH and they'd still be winning.
LH [i]didn't[/i] win, in case it escaped your notice - if he didn't, who do you think WOULD have won in a Merc alongside Nico? Effectively saying "any driver would do better in a better car" is a fair shout, but it doesn't carry a lot of weight.
Hamilton is a better driver than Rosberg but would nowhere in 2013-16 seasons in any other car. In my view in a non competitive car (ie anything else) Hamilton would lose the plot completely.
Saying LH would be "nowhere" in any other car is infantile nonsense without any foundation and in common with this...
[quote> https://www.formula1.com/en/championship/results/2016-driver-standings.html
EDiT: Pondo so looking down that list why don't you tell me which of those drivers put in a Mercedes Hamilton would have beaten to take 1st or 2nd in the Championship had be had his choice of Ferrari, Red Bull, Toro Rosso, Williams, McLaren ... in fact LH can have any car he wants other than the Merc. Like the other drivers he would have ben 100+ points back even if he could have held it together mentally in my view there is not a snowballs chance in hell Hamilton would have beaten Rosberg in the Merc in any other car.
... Is just gibberish and bears no relation to what we were discussing.
...and Lewis is still the only driver to have won a race in [b]every[/b] F1 season he's competed in (10 now) - whether he's had a good car or a shite one!
Thinking about it as a team sport rather than focus on the driver, what would have happened if another team had been given mercs car at the start of the year then left to get on with it?
Redbull - win both titles
Ferrari - possibly drivers but would have made enough mistakes to make the wcc close
Mclaren - definitely wdc, probably wcc
Williams - strong start to the year but would lose relative pace during the year and maybe just squeak wcc.
Force India - no budget to develop enough, probably beaten by Ferrari or RB in the second half of the season, no title
Torro rosso - would've given the car to redbull 😉
Haas - good early results but too many newbie errors so lack of consistency, no titles
Sauber - zero progress, drivers too erratic, no titles
Manor - bit better than sauber but fail to win either title
So it's as much about the team's ability to develop the car and have "clean" weekends as it is about whoever is driving it.
Not sure that Force India wouldn't have scored a title tbh, they seem to have an uncanny knack if punching waaaay above their weight! 🙂
Merc have the best car and pretty anyone decent could replace LH and they'd still be winning.
I'll say it again, alot of people on this topic don't really know F1.
What did Lauda ask DC?
He asked Lauda to think of when he was last driving competitively, for McLaren and asked him what he'd have done in that exact same situation.
Let's not forget that a couple of decades ago, three (almost four, if you count 1997) world titles were decided by contact being made between the title contenders. What we saw on Sunday was clean racing. Vettel, Verstappen, Rosberg et al all drove without controversy.
I'll say it again, alot of people on this topic don't really know F1.
Go on then, you must be dying to tell us. Which team did you work with? It's a pretty ballsy statement for someone who hasn't worked in a team. So don't be coy. Tell us which.
Toto works in F1 and he doesn't seem to get how it works at times! 😀
captainsasquatch, go on. Do you work within Mercedes closely on the strategy and personnally with the drivers?
For what its worth, the team bosses ranked LH number 1 driver for this year.
[url= http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127328/team-bosses-name-hamilton-2016-best-driver ]Autosport poll[/url]
I don't think we've even seen him peak yet.
captainsasquatch, go on. Do you work within Mercedes closely on the strategy and personnally with the drivers?
I'm not claiming that I have superior knowledge to others on the thread. I'm just enjoying the chat between F1 fans without having to diss them. I say it's you, who has mentioned several times that people don't know F1, that should reveal where your expertise comes from and why anyone should listen to you over anyone else posting.
Otherwise stop criticising others who have a different pov to you, question it by all means, but dissing just makes you look a prat.
Provisional calendar is out for 2017, Germany has gone and Brazil is in trouble. Thank god Canada and Belgium are still in otherwise it would be a disaster.
Oh and 11 corners around the world being altered to stop drivers cutting them.
Germany has gone?
🙁
Germany has gone?
Championship wining team has no home race 😐
Hora you don't need to follow and understand all the details of F1 to see Mercedes is the dominant car and that a whole raft of drivers would win in it and that Rosberg or Hamilton in a different car would be the 100+ points back that everyone else is.
@Pondo I think you are stretching a point, there are plenty of drivers who in the Merc could beat Rosberg from time to time and would finish 1/2 more often than not. Hamilton is a fantastic driver but he has a bad attitude and imo you can't work with that. He's worth a lot to Mercedes as they want to change the image of the brand and he is very popular in Asia and of course the UK. Personally I don't think he's worth the trouble.
I have a feeling that Lewis thought about it all before the race and thought about what Senna would have done. He wants to be compared to Senna and anyone who knows anything about Senna knows exactly what he'd have done. Along with pretty much the whole grid.
Besides it's OK. Lewis' pr people have sorted it out.
https://mobile.twitter.com/LewisHamilton/status/804051998488297472
[quote=dragon ]
A superb bit of driving from LH, IMO.
Not really as it didn't work, worth a punt yes, but superb hardly.
Whether it worked is immaterial, because that wasn't up to him. I think we covered why he didn't do it earlier, so within the constraints he had he did everything he possibly could. And yes it was superb to drive so slowly without giving Nico a sniff of a chance of overtaking him (the radio message suggests Nico was well aware he wasn't going to get past).
[quote=jambalaya ]IMO more than half the drivers in the Championship would have finished first or second had they been in the Mercedes, Button included and he was 15th.
The really interesting question is which drivers would have won the WDC if they'd had LH's car (including all the failures). I'm actually a JB rather than a LH fan, so I'd suggest he would have done - in fact both the Macca drivers would have. Not because either of them are fundamentally superior drivers to LH, but because they're both still better than Nico whilst being a little better at avoiding silly mistakes.
What does a driver bring to a cars out season development? Why was Nico always asking 'what is LH doing'?
Do the drivers simply turn up and drive? A gifted driver can bring upto a second a lap to a cars development.
Nico Rosberg has said on Tuesday that continued discussion over Hamilton's tactics in Abu Dhabi in "pointless"
....... quite so.
Shall we start 'F1 2017 (Bound to contain spoilers!)'?
I don't know how you decide who deserves to win the F1 title
I did some research on this. It turns out that the title is awarded to the driver with the most points. That was Rosberg, so he deserves to be champion.
So, Bernie's gone.
Can't say I'll miss him, he was well past his sell-by-date.
I wonder when full season coverage will revert back to free-to-air TV...
Sky's exclusivity contract is until 2022 so unless Liberty buy it out it'll be 2023 at the earliest. That's 5 years of losing the casual watchers to catch up on.
