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I was on the fence on this until I saw their management drafted response form the 'crew' with the not so subtle loyalty test aligned with it. That is a truly appalling position to put staff in.
just like 99% of all other businesses, thats kinda the point of business.
That is a very narrow and reductionist view of the purpose of employment in the economy and wider-society. Reaganomics is not good economics.
I`ll dip out at this point, dont want it to disintegrate into another typical STW thread... But the majority of posters so far are backing the ex staff and their unsubstantiated claims without seeing any evidence to back up these claims.
It smacks of "guilty until proven innocent". There are plenty of laws protecting people in the workplace. If Brew dog have broken any of those then it should be dealt with appropriately (not via social media).
Brewdog - the Heineken of craft beer..
If Brew dog have broken any of those then it should be dealt with appropriately (not via social media).
You'd never find out, because their lawyers would undoubtedly insist on an NDA.
As a shareholder, I want this company to uphold its stated aims of its people being paramount.
Imo (not having worked there but being party to a fair bit via the punks forum) James' insistence on a high-performance* environment being the only way the BD can prosper is not in the long term interests of its staff.
*or to put it another way, toxic.
But the majority of posters so far are backing the ex staff and their unsubstantiated claims without seeing any evidence to back up these claims
All we can do is form a judgement based on information in the public domain. Like @Franksinatra, I was on the fence until I saw Brewdog's response, which is a not so subtle attempt to suggest that the ex-employee wasn't up to the job, along with flushing out anyone else not deemed to be sufficiently loyal. It's a crappy thing to do.
@trailwagger - brewdog may not have broken any specific employment laws worth going to a tribunal about, but they market themselves as lovely cuddly brewers out to break the mould, from that letter signed by many ex employees it seems that isn't really the case at all, live by the sword die by the sword in my book.
My experience of venture capital is that everyone below the capitalists gets their arse kicked.
This.
'reach out to Mission Control' - where is the 'feeling sick' icon?
But the majority of posters so far are backing the ex staff and their unsubstantiated claims without seeing any evidence to back up these claims.
At least one poster knows one of the disgruntled employees....
As a shareholder, I want this company to uphold its stated aims of its people being paramount.
Not having a pop, as a shareholder, do you think you can achieve that?
Not having a pop, as a shareholder, do you think you can achieve that?
Well in theory if you can persuade enough shareholders with voting rights to agree then you can replace the boards / mgmt team etc. Would take a lot of activism to manage that though.....
I knew almost nothing about brewdog before today only that they made overpriced OK beer and seemed to be in the press a lot.
Crikey that response just reinforces everything in the former employee's open letter.
"we cannot remain quiet when we know that creating a public perception of brewdog as a bad place to work could potentially jeopardise job security" Then going on to tell you how you need to say how much you love working there and YOU MUST ADD YOUR NAME TO THIS BY 10:30 AM
Its implied that by not adding my name am I helping to create a negative public perception and therefor my job security is "potentially" at risk...
That is the nail in the coffin right there! If they had done nothing I would perhaps have just thought it was some disgruntled employee!
The Venture Capitalists had better sack this guy pronto or their cash cow is going to die.
What i dont like is the “trial be social media” that goes on today.
Live by the sword, die by the sword?
being ‘rebels’ but available in all major supermarkets.
Not to mention all major supermarkets in Madrid. Nothing against their beer, it's certainly a cut above a normal industrial lager, but they're hardly the rebels their marketing makes them out to be.
I may be mistaken but wasn't it Brewdog who "accidentally" or "didnt mean to" set their lawyers on a newly opened pub a few years ago, as the pub was called Lonewolf and so is their Vodka? And it was a copyright infringement or such?
it wasnt until someone pointed out (on social media, i believe) that they weren't exactly being punk or living up to thier own ethos?
Happy to be wrong, i cant remember the details...
but they’re hardly the rebels their marketing makes them out to be.
Seems there's a lot they marketed themselves as that isn't true.
+1 for the beer being sub par and ambitiously priced.
I think you mean "reassuringly expensive".
Of course prior to that, Stella was simply cheap piss. Then, overnight, it was overpriced piss.
they tried to position themselves as a brand of the people type of thing
To be fair, most people shop in Tesco.
Having worked for a small craft brewer, before “craft brewer” was a thing, and then listening to a number of former employees of another local craft brewer, the noise coming out of Brew Dog, both from that open letter and Mission Control’s response, is carbon copy.
Flagrant ignorance of H&S, bullying, gaslighting, sexual misconduct, is par for the course. It seems that a narcissistic personality disorder is a prerequisite of craft brewery owners.
Such a shame that this isn't still on iPlayer.
Was pretty obvious that it was an 'interesting' culture.
'Yeah, yeah, you guys choose your new director' says James.
Soon afterwards, possibly even the same day, the BBC was asked to switch the cameras off. It was decided that James would get to select the director after all.
And I seem to remember some of the sideways glances to camera from the employees were better than anything in the Office or Parks & Rec.
A great watch but probably not the best recruitment video.
Quick edit, here's a link to an article at the time. The writing has been on the wall for a while it would seem...
Admission of TV disaster by James Watt
Did anyone believe the marketing bs in the first place? Punk ethos plus capitalism equals 🤔
Did they make Sick! frames....
On our growth journey
The sea is that way good sir. Get the **** in it.
Best Regards,
Phill - Drinking Crabbies whilst typing this so may get a warning from the mods.
Did anyone believe the marketing bs in the first place?
I've hardly ever bought their stuff, not because I saw through it as marketing BS but just because all the **** they printed on labels annoyed me. It's just a beer, not a lifestyle choice.
Did anyone believe the marketing bs in the first place? Punk ethos plus capitalism equals 🤔
...the Sex Pistols. Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?
As a fan of craft beer I don't care about their ethos. What counts is whether it's good. Most craft beer in supermarkets is similarly priced so that's not an issue. Some of brewdog's stuff is decent, some is bland and too much of it is too similar. How many pales and ipas do they need?
I like their beer FWIW. But I wouldn't work there.
I did the Heriot Watt Brewing and Distilling MSc a couple of years back. It's essentially produces the cannon fodder for the brewing and distilling industries in Scotland.
I was the class rep for our year, so was pretty involved with folk were up to and what they did after they left.
There are loads of really good people working at Brewdog, some of their project/scientific work into low energy brewing etc is really good.
However, the working conditions/burnout/turnover rate is really high. Most people do it for a year/18 months to get it on the CV.
Brewdog's marketing schtik and the reality of the company are pretty far apart these days. Maybe it added up in 2015 but not any more.
They didn't make it on my list of places to look for work after uni.
Sadly, as mentioned above, I totally got the run around with almost every small brewery and distillery I applied to. To the point where I just gave up. People who own/run these breweries are not good people to work for. The only company who gave me a good recruitment experience were Diageo. I didn't get the job, but their recruitment set up was excellent.
I ended up going back to IT work. However, everyone I am still in touch with from uni is universally fed up with the entire industry. The wages are garbage and the working conditions are in the same bin.
However, it has been a great learning experience for me in how to run my own brewery that should be trading by the end of the year. I've got a philosophy and everyfink.
It seems that a narcissistic personality disorder is a prerequisite of craft brewery owners.
I think it goes with territory of anyone who goes from zero to hero in business. People think their success makes them special and believe their own bullshit - See Tories.
It seems that a narcissistic personality disorder is a prerequisite of craft brewery owners.
That's certainly the impression I get from the two founders. Capital bell ends 😀
Well in theory if you can persuade enough shareholders with voting rights
That would be true if those shares actually conferred such rights. As I recall (and I may be wrong) these shares are shares in name only with no rights or guarantee of ever getting your money back. Its like a really bad version of kickstarter where you get to buy stuff at a discount from RRP but because bulk buyers buy more it's still cheaper from Tesco.
Correct ^. Calling them shares was very disingenuous.
They are shares according to the Financial Statements, its just there aren't many of them compared to the A shares so the A shareholders essentially control the company. I am not too keen on how they have used crowdfunding for later tranches but this criticism seems incorrect.
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trailwagger
Free MemberI`ll dip out at this point, dont want it to disintegrate into another typical STW thread… But
..... here’s why I’m right and you’re all wrong.
Top STW flounce points there iirc
Oh I'm sure they are actual shares, I doubt their lawyers would have let them get away with that. They're just not the kind of shares people are accustomed to, a very one way investment.
They are not quoted so there is no ready market in them but they do offer a dealing service - not much more you can do and this will be common to most crowdfunders. People have sold and early investors have realized profits, but I would never encourage anyone to participate in them as the largely self generated valuations are insanely high.
There are loads of really good people working at Brewdog, some of their project/scientific work into low energy brewing etc is really good.
However, the working conditions/burnout/turnover rate is really high. Most people do it for a year/18 months to get it on the CV.
Yes, but are they able to organise a decent piss-up?
£2k for an industrial tribunal may be a start,
Declared unlawful in court and no longer would apply as a result.
I'm hoping to organise a piss up in a brewery for my 40th in November!
Hope it works out or I'll never live it down haha
What i dont like is the “trial be social media” that goes on today.
like celebrities who have built their fame on twitter its the gamble you take that social media will be your downfall as well as your success. Brewdog is just another brewer, one with a very good marketing team who usually know exactly how to play the SM game. Of course some of those former people might be on the "letter list" and so now they are playing against equals at the SM game it could get messy for them. If its entirely unfounded the company will be able to claim its defamatory, potentially libellous and seek an interim interdict for its immediate removal. They have the resource to do that, it might not be the SM genius way to solve it but it certainly would show they vigorously denied it!
Similar to what others have said, when they first came out the crap written on the cans was enough to put me off and I didn't think the beer was all they thought it was. Luckily there's plenty of choice out there, we have a really good little brewery just down the road and I'm happy to pay a little more and support them.
Brewdog guy's LinkedIn post from yesterday..
Reminds me of that cleaners thread the other day with all the "working class roots" guff
Seems there’s a lot they marketed themselves as that isn’t true.
From what I know it wasn't in 2015 either
Nothing I've seen leads me to believe any of the marketing, the way they have managed to persuade people that they are something other than what they are looks more like a cult than a company that makes and sells beer
I wonder if he takes his £9.99 chair with him on all those private jet flights?
The chair doesn’t look like it’s had 14 years of regular use does it? And there’s no way I could do 14 days on one of those chairs let alone 14 years.
#chairgate lol
but the recurring story I got back was expect long hours and they want their pound of flesh.
Or another angle is they rightly expect a good level of performance for a decent salary and package. Shock horror! People don't like paying people to take the piss.
If you've built up your own business from nothing then you wouldn't be so tolerant of slackers.
I used to drink at their first bar when it opened in Aberdeen, they seemed like nice guys