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Julian - fairish point. Why call the Tory poster comment cheeky and Andy Burnham's comments bllx? Quite simple really. The Tory comment tagline on a poster - it is poor because without "context" (agreed) it could be misunderstood - indeed I am sure that there is deliberate intention here. The context is that the "deficit halved" boast related to the deficit as a percentage of GDP not the deficit itself. So IMO that is cheeky rather than complete bllx (for the Tories I would suggest that CMD's tax ideas fall into the bllx category FWIW).
But in Burnham's case he made two very specific points on the BBC - re the health and social care act and the amount of money hospitals make from treating private patients. Both were factually incorrect (indeed labour's track record on the first was worse/better (dep on your point of view) than the Tories). So they move beyond cheeky to bllx IMO.
Cheap political crap will not address the challenges faced by the NHS.
None of the main parties are being honest or direct in relation to the deficit. Anyone would think that it was unimportant!
JY - a lot of those blue bits represent a lot of marginal seats they lost last time out. They need to win some of those back to stand a chance of a majority. And they're going to lose a lot of seats in Scotland anyway. So they've decided to compete with Alex's Magic Book of Dreams, offering [s]bribes[/s] north of the border. It won't work.
There was a good article on the problem facing labour in striking this balance in yesterdays Guardian
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/04/what-is-britain-election-conservatives-english-voter-labour ]The Conservatives are winning the battle to appeal to the unhappy English voter over the future of Britain and its place in Europe. Labour needs to sharpen up[/url]
yes but the joke/flippant point does not work if you ruin it with facts...shakes fist
Read the article yesterday
binners - Member
And they're going to lose a lot of seats in Scotland anyway. So they've decided to compete with Alex's Magic Book of Dreams, offering bribes north of the border. It won't work.
Seen today's fisticuffs Binners?
Diane Abbot: Jim Murphy cannot really mean he is going to expropriate money from Londoners to win an election in Scotland. He is jumping the gun is a highly unscrupulous way.
Jim Murphy: This is a tax across the whole UK and it is about sharing and pooling resources. I don't have to consult Ed Milliband, that's not the way things work (sic) in the Labour Party anymore.
With friends like these, who needs enemies!!
His name is Jim not John BTW Diane....
Meanwhile, in important news, at least Greece was on holiday today, so not more bad news that matters today!
Jim Murphy is just spending money they'll get from Barnett anyway if Labour bring in the mansion tax. Don't see what the fuss is about.......
other than the mansion tax will have a geographic imbalance in the UK
always amuses me that the sons of a Marxist became millionaires off the back of inherited property they very efficiently tax planned for
at least he going to pay his own tax (or will it come under parliamentary expenses?)
Isn't there an App for this yet?
Its all going pretty well for us so far!
[url= http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/labour-and-tories-squabble-over-who-will-spend-least-on-cycling/017293 ]Labour and Tories squabble over who will spend least on cycling.[/url]
im gonna vote UKIP.
yeah, yeah, they might be crap, but if they get in you can guaran-damn-tee the tories and labour will buck their shit up properly so we *might* have an effective government the time after.
out of Europe. tick.
/long game
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jan/09/circle-exit-private-contract-hinchingbrooke-nhs ]http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jan/09/circle-exit-private-contract-hinchingbrooke-nhs[/url]
"The statement lobbed a politically charged hand grenade into the election campaign with Labour’s health spokesman, Andy Burnham, criticising the government for agreeing a “risky” business model with Circle, and his Conservative opposite number, Jeremy Hunt, accusing Burnham of “playing politics” with the issue."
WTF? When did mismanagement and underfunding of the NHS cease to be a political issue?
Its a tad embarrassing for Dave. What with him trumpeting just this kind of deal as the bright future of the NHS? These ruthlessly efficient Private Suppliers, coming in to sort everything out?
And Jeremy Hunt accusing anyone of 'playing politics with the issue' is a bit rich, considering his totally insensitive political opportunistism over the whole Mid Staffs affair
Burnham (originated the idea and proposed similar contracts) and Hunt (executed the contract) should stop being silly.
Interesting to see the economics behind this decision - as messy as this is, the good thing is that this becomes clear instead of getting lost in the NHS budget.
As the question last night on QT suggested the A&E issues is a failure in so many counts, but in this case Hunt cannot hide away from the fact that this is embarrassing news.
You've got to admire the sheer brassneck of the tories for this 'it's nothing to do with politics' strategy. Although I don't know how they can keep a straight face when saying it. I wonder what other subjects come under their 'not for discussion' category. Education? Security? In fact probably everything other than the economy, Europe and immigration.
It raises some interesting points about the privatised future of healthcare. If any private providers can just walk away any time they like?
The NHS is clearly struggling to cope with A&E demand at the moment, But what would the scenario be if that A&E service was in the hands of a multitude of private suppliers. What if a number of them then decided to do what Circle have just done, say "**** that!" and just walk away? Where the hell would that leave us?
A question for Mr Hunt? Or would asking him that be construed as 'playing politics'?
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/human-suffering-not-profitable-enough-2015010994249 ]The Mash nails it, as usual[/url]
that this becomes clear
The unfolding scenario re Circle was widely predicted.
What's interesting is how the media repeated their PR claims - e.g. the CHKS so-called "award" & incessant spin.
Having them playing twitter tag is pretty unedifying - for a change the LDs are probably best placed in all this.
Neither Hunt not Burnham are on safe ground - the petty politicsaccusation is really valid in the sense that this stops real debate on how these issues get resolved. Sad to watch.
So Dave has suddenly developed a sense of democratic justice, and is standing up for the Green Party? Yeah right! Its quite clear that he's cynically trying to do anything and everything in his power to ensure the TV debates never take place, under any circumstances. They must think we're all complete idiots? Dave standing up for the democratic rights of the Green Party? Such a laughable proposition, its frankly embarrassing in its flagrant cynicism! Not that we should be in the least bit surprised 🙄
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/11/tv-election-debate-wont-happen-david-cameron-determined ]Badly burnt by what happened last time, the Tories set out to sabotage the negotiations right from the start[/url]
[i]At the time of the last election, David Cameron pronounced that TV debates were “here to stay”. It was his confident declaration that: “We will have them in every election in the future and that is a really good thing for democracy.”[/i]
They should definitely 'Empty Chair' the bastard!
They should definitely 'Empty Chair' the bastard!
Yeah, Just imagine, Miliband vs Clegg and Farage in a live TV debate 😆
I would imagine Dave would be prefer to be like the rest of us, sat at home with a big bowl of popcorn waiting for the massacre!
To be fair to him, Millibean isn't opposed to the greens being allowed. Its the TV people who've decreed that. Based, apparently, on them losing their deposits at the last 3 by-elections.
I can't see any reason they shouldn't be allowed. They're polling more than the lib dems. But Daves position is absolutely laughable in its obvious opportunism.
Milliband won't come out well. He is Dwayne Dibble after all. But if you look at Dave when he gets flustered he goes bright red, and involuntarily defaults to a[b] "How dare you question me?!!! Do you know who I am, you little guttersnipe?!!!!"[/b] attitude and demenour
I suspect Nige would have him puce and ranting, and probably calling people plebs, within seconds 😆
@ninfan 😀
Where I differ slightly is that I have no interest in the TV debates, it's sound bytes and show-boating of the worst kind. Miliband is being naive as Farage will slaughter him just like he did to Clegg making him look like a novice.
What's your opinion of call me Dave dodging the debates jambalaya?
I can't see any reason they shouldn't be allowed. They're polling more than the lib dems. But Daves position is absolutely laughable
True, but it's clearly opportunism by Ed and Nick as well, neither of them want the greens there one bit.
Problem fo Ed is that now he's called for an empty chair, Dave can sit back and play chicken, because either the TV companies will flinch and allow the Greens in, or Labour will realise he is headed into a crash and pull the ejector seat for him - either way Dave comes out the winner.
Indeed. The Greens have taken the lefty vote off Ed, and the sandal wearers off Nick. And the pair of them would doubtless hemorrhage more votes to them over a debate.
But this isn't about that. This is about Dave being terrified of going head to head with Nige. Cheers!
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Do you think he's going to spend a bit of time pointing this out?
In the end I'd welcome some robust questions to farage, it can't be that hard to expose the massive holes and contradictions in their policies and maybe a few questions about his paries euro expenses and voting record.
Given the greens would only be at one of the debates why no tdo the other two ...oh yes he would look like he was ducking UKIP
If labour had any sense they would offer him this compromise 😉
TBh Binners I think he is scared of them all but yes UKIP will ask some great questions re loons comment and if they will do a coalition with them
One of those possible great for his political chances of gaining power but poor from a democratic point of view
either way Dave comes out the winner
I think you need true blue vision to think this.
Eds on record as saying its up to the tv companies who they invite though I assume you have pre scoured google for a quote of context 😉
In the end I'd welcome some robust questions to farage, it can't be that hard to expose the massive holes and contradictions in their policies and maybe a few questions about his paries euro expenses and voting record.
Yeah, but he would be up against Clegg and Miliband
I think you need true blue vision to think this
Look, either
I) the TV companies back down, in which case Dave got what he demanded and Ed and Nick have the Greens there, taking a share of the left vote
Ii) Ed backs down, in which case Dave got what he demanded, Ed looks weak, and the greens get the airtime
Iii) Ed, Nick and Nigel go head to head, with resultant bloodbath
which of those is a negative result for Dave?
Can you imagine Dave sitting comfortably at home, watching an empty chair with his name on it, while Nige launched into his affable appeal to Dave's core vote?
No. Me neither.
If the TV companies say "**** you then! We'll just go ahead with an empty chair instead", theres no way on earth he wouldn't turn up. They should stop all this nonsense and call his bluff straight away
Can you imagine Dave sitting comfortably at home, watching an empty chair with his name on it, while Nige launched into his affable appeal to Dave's core vote?No. Me neither.
If the TV companies say "**** you then! We'll just go ahead with an empty chair instead", theres no way on earth he wouldn't turn up. They should stop all this nonsense and call his bluff straight away
Counter argument:
There's no way it would happen, because they want him there, so will back down and let the greens in, and even if they didn't, there's no way that Labour would let Ed go into a live bear pit against Nigel,
We can go around in circles on this, but there's no bluff to call, your proposal is fantasy land.
Yeah, the greens I just ask their policy on homeopathy
From their manifesto:
Push for regulations that no medical service in the EU may
claim any benefit for a treatment for which there isn’t
scientific evidence as shown by replicable randomised
controlled trials.
How can it be a win, win for call me Dave? He simply looks like he's ducking the debate and making excuses. Look at it the other way, if he refuses people will say he was scared, if he goes they'll say he was forced to. His actions to date have made it a lose, lose.
the one that is bad ninfan is the one where he is no there and they lampoon him for this and explain his decision anda talk of his poor judgement and hubris. they then move on to lampoon tory policies and scare monger about what they will do and he is not there to reply to any of this
I am not sure how you think the others spending an hour x 2 on national tv criticising him and his policies is a win for him then again I dont have the true blue specs of truth that you have.
The TV companies won't go along with it without Dave and come voting day I can't see the fact that he didn't agree to a TV debate being a major factor in people's decisions.
It's Greens in or no debates as far as I can see.
The ensuing election pantomime will merely serve to further domesticate the electorate into accepting the narrative that sovereign legislation is redundant in the face of global governance..
About as much as I looked forward to hearing the latest about Oscar Bloody Pistorius...
Can some one explain to me something? If UKiP get say 40 mp's after the next election but Farage isnt one of them, would he be allowed to weild any kind or influence on parliament or would he be got rid of by those that were voted in?
The only way the empty chair will go in Dave's favour is if Clint Eastwood is there.
[quote=Pigface said]Can some one explain to me something? If UKiP get say 40 mp's after the next election but Farage isnt one of them, would he be allowed to weild any kind or influence on parliament or would he be got rid of by those that were voted in?
I would imagine that it won't be long before someone like Carswell becomes UKIP leader.
Everyone looking forward to the next 5 months of electioneering then?
Yes. I am voting UKIP to see how bad can they can be.
Has anyone seen that the Greens only need 636 more members to be a larger party than UKIP...
which makes you wonder why the media, Lib Dems and Labs don't want them there
"It seems to me that the UK is ready for a bloke waving a pint around, offering common sense solutions."
😆
Lifer + 1 😀
I am sure that he'll check the ladies are all drinking fruit based alcoholic beverages
"The other parties offer a moon on a stick," he said. "We'll do better than that: a British moon on a British stick."
and
On immigration, Farage's signature issue, Murray said: "Of course the reason they are coming here is because this is the greatest country in the world. The only way to stop them is for a government to change that and make things a whole lot worse.
Lets hope The Pub Landlord has some pearls of wisdom on Brand as well
The TV companies won't go along with it without Dave
Why do you think that ?
Legally all they have to do is invite him
Dave sure hopes this happens but i doubt they will all do this
makes you wonder why the media, Lib Dems and Labs don't want them there
They have not said they wont show up unless x happens only your hero has done this; they are not scared that is why they have not run away with the ball in a huff.