[Closed] Europe...

What were they protesting about ? Not the EU surely ?

Because most people don't look past the headlines and decide they don't like immigrants or the EU so it must mean they have to vote UKIP rather than looking into the fact they won't actually do anything...

IE the green party manifesto includes an in-out referendum but nobody noticed that because they aren't in the news every other day for saying racist comments etc

(I did not vote green or UKIP though)

A protest vote that involves voting for a banker called Nigel.
That really showed it to The Man.

A protest vote that involves voting for a banker called Nigel.
That really showed it to The Man.

Aye.

Democracy is ruined by the fact so many people are stupid...(and nige knows this very well and used it for his gain)

most people don't look past the headlines and decide they don't like immigrants or the EU

If the reason UKIP received the highest amount of votes last Thursday in the Euro elections was something as simple as people not liking immigrants then the BNP would have scored huge electoral successes for many years.

Racism against immigrants has never been popular in the UK and any party expressing those views have suffered electorally.

If immigration was an issue this Euro election then it was with regards to the EU's open door policy, not animosity towards immigrants.

That is why I said or the EU...

I'm not trying to imply all people who voted UKIP are racist. Just seems everyone has default voted for UKIP as they don't want to stay in the EU, other parties offer this referendum whilst also actually having other policies.

Chukka Umunna already on BBC this morning saying this was not a vote about Europe...

So say the UK imposes a closed door policy, how does that work for the UK in future? Do all the immigrants already in the UK get kicked out as Farrage has said? Do all the UK expats in Europe (between 1 and 2 million of them) get told to bugger off back to Blighty?

Given the UK immigration system for work permits etc is already an overloaded mess, how will that handle the upsurge in requests? What about skilled labour like medical staff of whom the NHS employs a load be handled?

I'm not sure anyone who says "We need to limit immigration" has ever given much detail of how it would actually work,

I'm not sure anyone who says "We need to limit immigration" has ever given much detail of how it would actually work

Fantastic. We must have an open door policy and allow anyone who wants to come to the UK permission to do so, because anything else is too complicated !

EDIT : Actually it's not that simple, the open door policy only applies to EU nationals, would-be immigrants from other areas such as the West Indies, Africa, or Asia, can sod off.......we can apply complicated immigration processes to keep them out. If we want to.

So say the UK imposes a closed door policy, how does that work for the UK in future? Do all the immigrants already in the UK get kicked out as Farrage has said? Do all the UK expats in Europe (between 1 and 2 million of them) get told to bugger off back to Blighty?

It's the second question that's vaguely worrying me, I'd probably end up having to apply for Spanish nationality if only to avoid having to renew visas etc. on a regular basis.

So say the UK imposes a closed door policy,

Who says thats the inevitable outcome?

A more realistic scenario is a significant revision on the qualifying criteria/period for benefits, social housing, NHS treatment etc.

it was with regards to the EU's open door policy, not animosity towards immigrants.

So they hate the fact they can come here not the fact they have come here?

A more realistic scenario is a significant revision on the qualifying criteria/period for benefits, social housing, NHS treatment etc.

UKIP aim to get rid of the NHS so you don't need to worry about that as only the rich will be able to afford health care.

Give it 10 years when all the countries of Europe have fractured into little countries bickering with their exes. Mr Putin can then gently roll westwards at his leisure.
When mainland countries start talking about bloody foreigners they mean us. Not only a gypsy from some place we've never heard of.
Who are we going to moan too when our charming holiday homes in the Dordogne are burnt out or daubed with Rosbifs go home?

I'm not sure anyone who says "We need to limit immigration" has ever given much detail of how it would actually work,

There has been quite a bit of research into the pros and cons of "balanced" migration. Most of it can be found on the website balancedmigration.org

We already have balanced migration, it is just a load of scare stories that have allowed all the racists to voice their opinions.

Just to add... I hope all the people who voted UKIP are aware and happy with their plans for a flat rate 32% income tax. Will really help the help all the people who get the jobs the immigrants have been stealing 😉

A more realistic scenario is a significant revision on the qualifying criteria/period for benefits, social housing, NHS treatment etc.

No one gets benefits on first arrival here not even brits returning home

If voting changed anything, they wouldn't let us do it

Mark Twain

A more realistic scenario is a significant revision on the qualifying criteria/period for benefits, social housing, NHS treatment etc.

I thought your political mentor Dan Hannan was opposed to benefits, social housing, and NHS treatment? As is UKIP, probably, no one quite knows for sure.

So why have a significant revision on the qualifying criteria/period for things which don't exist ?

It doesn't seem to make much sense 😕

Can those who like to theorise on these matter explain why they think
the euro vote was different to the local council vote was it down to the voting system and if so should we change ours and which would be better. Or was it down to a lack of influence real or otherwise in one of the votes? Or was it just down to the areas voting? It all seems a bit odd to me.

No one gets benefits on first arrival here

I don't believe anyone suggested they did

So why have a significant revision on the qualifying criteria/period for things which don't exist ?

Well, if they don't exist anymore, then that would certainly be a significant revision to the qualifying criteria wouldn't it?

Fantastic. We must have an open door policy and allow anyone who wants to come to the UK permission to do so, because anything else is too complicated !

Or perhaps because freedom of movement of people is one of the four fundamental pillars on which the EU is based?

Well, if they don't exist anymore, then that would certainly be a significant revision to the qualifying criteria wouldn't it?

Good answer.

So according to you and Dan Hannan no one should qualify for benefits, social housing, and NHS treatment. How exactly does that relate to your comment regarding immigration ?

Are you suggesting that would-be immigrants come to the UK for benefits, social housing, and NHS treatment ? Is that what Dan Hannan and the Daily Mail have been telling you ?

for those that still think they can force decisions on "the little people

So the electorate should make the decisions then? 10 minutes each morning flicking through a biased publication is enough information to decide on crucial policies is it?

Are you suggesting that would-be immigrants come to the UK for benefits, social housing, and NHS treatment ?

Nope, never happens, glad we're all agreed!

Can those who like to theorise on these matter explain why they thinkthe euro vote was different to the local council vote was it down to the voting system and if so should we change ours and which would be better.

Many folk hate the EU so they will do a protest vote as they think the parliament has no real power - PR does encourage a protest vote as your vote actually counts . I vote differently in EU elections than national ones for example.

As for local WTF has wanting to be out of the EU got to do with being a local councillor? Only die hard UKIPers will vote for them there I assume so you see their core vote - the protest votes

Its nothing more than educated guess//wild stab in the dark

Well I fell asleep listening to the votes coming in and now wake to find the UK's purple.

Interesting times, thankfully.

Nope, never happens, glad we're all agreed!

So why mention your very Daily Mail reference to immigrants and benefits, social housing, and NHS treatment then ?

Care to clarify ?

ernie_lynch - Member

Explain to me how this is arrogant .....

If you can't see how suggesting that the "British public don't necessarily understand coalition politics" but that you on the other do, is rather arrogant, then I'm afraid I won't be able to explain it to you.

Perhaps you like to explain to me how it isn't arrogant ?

i'd personally go round to every single one of the 66.5% of the non voters and say to them to gtf out, if they cannot be bothered to vote (or at least spoil/mark their papers otherwise) then they have no right to live in Scotland.

I don't think the people who have voted UKIP here or NF in France give a hoot about Europe, the votes are protests at an open door immigration policies changing communities.

Care to clarify ?

Because like it or not - thats a huge proportion of the reason UKIP romped home

its perfectly possible for 'benefits' (etc) not to be the 'primary' reason people initially come to the UK, but for them to still be a real issue that is open to either abuse or legal but unintended and unforeseen outcomes - and that that weakens faith in the system as a whole.

A good example would be Child benefit being payable for children resident in another country.

I like the EU. I like Europe. I love the UK but it seems to be now populated by people who want to blame everything on someone else and complain.

the votes are protests at an open door immigration policies changing communities.

It would be foolish to believe that all anti-EU sentiments are based purely on opposition to the EU's open door policy.

[i]The French people "no longer want to be ruled from outside, to have to submit to laws they did not vote for or to obey (EU officials) who are not subject to the legitimacy of universal suffrage," Le Pen said.[/i]

That's what the leader of the FN had to say after the results were announced. Under no circumstances would I vote for the racists/fascists which are the FN, but I find it completely impossible to disagree with that comment.

The far-right have tapped into genuine grievances which many who purport to be left-wing choose to ignore. The consequences aren't entirely surprising.

ninfan - Member

Care to clarify ?

Because like it or not - thats a huge proportion of the reason UKIP romped home

its perfectly possible for 'benefits' (etc) not to be the 'primary' reason people initially come to the UK, but for them to still be a real issue that is open to either abuse or legal but unintended and unforeseen outcomes - and that that weakens faith in the system as a whole.

Ah, so you are pushing the Daily Mail line that immigrants come to the UK to exploit our benefits, social housing, and NHS, after all. Jolly good - I thought you were attempting to deny it.

+1 IanW

Are you saying they don't then Ernie?
I would if I were in their shoes and you can't blame them if they do.

The overwhelming reason immigrants come to the UK is for a better life.

I don't think Albania has any motorways, at least not many compared to the UK, do think it would be reasonable for the Daily Mail to have headlines claiming that "The Albanians Are Coming Here To Use Our Motorways" ?

I thought people came to the UK as it was much easier to get a job due to the "rightwing" employment laws.

Using our motorways wouldn't have the economic impact that using our benefit system has. So no not really.

But just think of the consequences of them using our overloaded motorways. The M25 is bad enough without Albanians coming over here and clogging it up even further.

[i]Bear in mind that, not being old enough to remember our last coalition government (ie. WW2) this is my first experience of coalition government too. I don't pretending to understand it any better than the next person.[/i]

There was a Lib-Lab Pact in 1977. ISTR the Libs got screwed, other interpretations are available. I was a bit busy doing other things then.

I think history may be repeating.

That made me laugh out loud Ernie 🙂