😯since the start of the year only the currencies of Angola, Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Venezuela, Mozambique and Suriname have fallen by more.
coz there are things people keep secret.
Why would they keep it a secret? They won, didn't they? They took back control!
You can be a moaner consumed by bitterness of defeat or you can take a positive attitude forward.
I'm not remotely bitter about it. I am however being pragmatic, rather than positive. That pragmatism enables me to see the clear disadvantage the UK has put itself in as the result of a woefully untruthful and spiteful campaign, and a government that seems shameless in its overt xenophobia, if not quite yet outright racism.
If you want positivity, perhaps try highlighting some 'positives' that don't fly in the face of the large body of evidence that is presented before us.
If you want positivity, perhaps try highlighting some 'positives' that don't fly in the face of the large body of evidence that is presented before us.
HGNFY is going to have a wealth of material to work with. 🙂
I was saying that sometimes people do not tell the truth as to who they have voted for particularly those people you know like friends, family members etc. They might tell you one thing but they have voted for another. e.g. your friends etc might have said that they voted for this but in actual they voted for that, just to avoid hard feelings etc.phiiiiil - Member
coz there are things people keep secret.
Why would they keep it a secret? They won, didn't they? They took back control!
If you want positivity, perhaps try highlighting some 'positives' that don't fly in the face of the large body of evidence that is presented before us.HGNFY is going to have a wealth of material to work with.
I'm not entirely convinced that they'll have to say anything TBH. I suspect they couldn't do much better than playing 30 minutes of news clips from the past three months, then rolling the credits. I doubt they'd actually need to say anything!
Kimbers that link is unreal.
Unreal.
torsoinalake - MemberKimbers that link is unreal.
Unreal.
The speculators or the ones being speculated?
The former are people doing their normal practice to hype up or down events for financial gains.
The latter are people being taken for a ride. They are usually the ones being hyped up/down and end up worst then they started.
I have a positive attitude but, yes, I am bitter about the referendum nonetheless. I am bitter about the outright lies that were at the core of the BS argument, about the negative impact that this had had on my work, disgusted at the extent of xenophobia and racism that it has uncovered, and dismayed at the outcome in terms of UK politics.
[b]Above all, none of this was necessary. We had the best possible result in the bag - access and benefits without the downsides of the €. It doesn't get better than that.[/b]
I have also benefitted from the core freedoms, my family has too - 3/4 of us have lived or studied in France and I would like the same opportunities to be there for number 4 and for people of the EU to do the same here [b]without barriers. [/b]
In the end, after all the BS will we end up slightly worse that we started. We will compromise and will end up with less influence and less control. Exactly the opposite of what was promised (sic).
CMD was absolutely right. [b]This is self-harm[/b]. On top of that it is driven by narrow-minded xenophobia and racism and crass isolationism at its core. History has always judged those factors harshly and often with catastrophic results. I hope that the downside will be limited this time, but it is still downside.
So excuse me for not jumping up an down about that and being an insy-winsy bit negative. It would be naive to do so. Its like someone shitting on your doorstep.
Brexshit is Brexshit - its crap however much sugar you want to sprinkle on top of it.
You can be a moaner consumed by bitterness of defeat
FFS is that really what you think this is? It's not the bloody FA Cup final. This is something that's going to fundamentally affect the lives and futures of everyone and their future descendants. I could happily accept such a fundamental and important decision if it was made based on the available evidence and decided in a mature and measured fashion by a clear and unambiguous majority of the people, but that's not what happened is it? Can you not even acknowledge the genuine, reasoned and not entirely baseless fears of those of us who think this is going to be an unparalleled disaster?
Words out of my mouth dazh.
Coupled with the rights that were important to me having been stripped away. Also for my kids. Can't you see how I'd be pissed off about that?
No, of course he can't, because he can't afford to consider the possibility that he might be wrong.
Also for my kids.
yup thats what really annoys me
my children will have to pay for the stupidity of others
Well I don't have children so (as Loathsome would tell you) I don't really give a shit about the future, and it won't affect me too much one way or the other.
However, I'm not a complete moron and it is abundantly clear that brexit is an act of catastrophic self-harm driven largely by racism and bigotry (after such hatred having been stoked for years by the gutter press and various politicians). Certainly makes me ashamed to be British, though as a Scot living in England, I can just about call myself a foreigner anyway.
Some anecdotal evidence from a colleague. His friend has a very successful business exporting "machinery" worldwide. The expected weak pound bonanza is not happening, but instead is seeing his order book shrink, as his customers aren't comfortable with the risk, so are moving to suppliers in the EU.
So not all good for exporters.
see there you go doing Britain down with facts
FFS people lets cheer up as together we can achieve wonderful things [ flicks V at foreigners as he makes speech]
I'm finding that I'm now acknowledging something that I've half-known about my fellow man for a long, long time, but was always too scared to address.
I think its a fantasy thing for many, this scenario. (I don't mean the ones who've seriously considered this and voted out, but I'm starting to think they were in the minority.)
The others want to be perceived as strong, defiant, dismissive, ill-mannered, someone who gets what he/she wants. For the downtrodden, thats powerful stuff- someone who can let them be the person that they've always wanted to be, something that was promised to them but denied.
Brexit as a wish-fulfilment device basically.
People are now showing their inner reality in an unbridled way, because politicians have tacitly signalled that its ok to be that way in public, whereas formerly, even in private, they would have felt shame.
I think a lot of people, deep down, secretly want to be dicks to just about everyone who ever made them feel bad, but they've been suppressing this for a lifetime; Brexit was the nail they could hang their hat on and allows them to unburden themselves and hang it all out there.
I think of it as being a bit like Pride, only for crypto-fascists and the butt-hurt masses.
Ok I can add another one......
Can you guess?
1930s Germany or Tory Party conference
Just delete the word Foreign or Jewish depending on where you think it was thought up
Pledge to remove\replace all foreign/Jewish doctors
Restrictions on foreign/Jewish students at universities
Shaming businesses for employing Jews/ foreigners
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/07/lse-brexit-non-uk-experts-foreign-academics ]Excluding foreigners/jews from jobs the civil service[/url]
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/mobile/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005681
I heard that non-UK forum members are going to be excluded from this thread.
Apparently the ban even includes chewkw.
Everybody agrees that Europe is not perfect but to change it, you need to be part of it.In 3 years time, you will be part of nothing.
CC we've been told that for years and the reality is very different. It's a democracy and the other members want ever closer Union, we foolishly gave up our veto. It's now a condition of EU membership you join or prepare to join the € for example. It is a one way street to a European Superstate. There is no interest at the EU for anything else as more Europe equals more power, influence and money for the EU elite.
And the last thing we want for the UK is more power, influence and money... 😆
Errrr....name who was exempt from those trends but still had access to the markets and much of the other benefits? And like clowns we (clue) threw it away!
It's now a condition of EU membership you join or prepare to join the € for example.
How does that affect us?
It's now a condition of EU membership you join or prepare to join the € for example.
Weren't we exempted from that?
It didnt/it doesnt/ it will not
Although if you are Scottish you would be a bit nervous that dear Nicola's desperation to part from the English might extend as far as joining the disaster that is the €. She really is that silly at times.
How does that affect us?
For now, it doesn't, beyond giving Jamby yet more irrelevant bollocks to tupe. When we're grovelling to rejoin in about 10 years and Turkey is threatening us with a veto, it will.
Dont be so despondent Zokes. Bojo is going to help his homeland join first so perhaps they will return the favour!!
(but jambas is correct about one thing. The € is terminally fu@ked. It cannot work either on paper or in practice. So the Euro-project is in a cul-de-sac of its own making. Unfortunately the BSers cannot exercise their brains enough to distinguish between the different events and how to protect our best interests)
Can we split the country in some way? So you could say affiliate yourself with the EU on a personal level? I wonder how that would work.
- EU members would be allowed to trade and move freely.
- EU affliated business owners would have to declare their business an EU businss and only be able to employ EU affiliated workers. You could affiliate yourself if you wanted to work there.
- You'd get an EU/UK passport, in red
- You'd be subject to EU laws
- Other EU citizens would only be able to come and work for the EU affiliated companies
- EU inbound funding to geographic areas could only be given if more than 50% affliated.. or maybe you can only access the regenerated housing/businesses/landscape if you are an affiliate..
Interesting experiment that would be 🙂
Yes, perhaps there could be some sort of border where the EU people lived in the North and the UK people lived in the South 🙂
Can we split the country in some way?
Not necessary, we just need the EU to offer all current british citizens an EU passport if they want one. Perhaps in return for a one-off payment for life, of say €1000 per citizen. I suspect many would take up the offer. I'm pretty sure I would.
I see Hammond has now commented on the [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/pound-value-crash-brexit-flash-philip-hammond-sterling-drop-worse-to-come-a7351076.html ]'flash crash'[/url]
[img] 
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Oh excellent, there's more to come 🙄
We really are governed by the most imbecilic shysters.
Cody - been meaning to read one of his, that's as good an excuse as any 🙂
Polish man attacked for speaking Polish.
I hope Bojo is proud of himself.
We really are governed by the most imbecilic shysters.
We are, and have been for some time. Me and the Mrs were discussing this last night. Basically since the miners' strikes I think bugger all has really happened politically. A few distant wars, a bit of grumling here and there but for the most part things have just rumbled on. And I think as a consequence most people lost interest in politics, the media let itself become a soapbox for its owners instead of giving out information, and living standards mostly went up regardless based on increased manufacturing capacity in poor countries.
But now as Labour lost its competency, and let's face it Dave wasn't really a competent politician, the shit of the financial crisis and the Tories' ideological austerity has been building. Then Dave put a big fan right in the way, put it on max and here we are.
And no bugger knows what to do, because they're all a bit crap, because for the last 30 years none of them have really had to govern much of anything. The big policies of investing in doctor training and housing - those are basics that should've been happening all along. It's like proudly anouncing you're going to do the washing up after dinner; that's not an innovative policy, it's just what you have to do as a matter of course!
You can be a moaner consumed by bitterness of defeat or you can take a positive attitude forward.
It's quite hard not to be bitter when theres a possibility that my small child could leave the UK, if the terms of Brexit make her mothers position here untenable financially or socially. Still hoping for soft brexit or that there'll be an easy route to a passport for the ex.
Me and the Mrs were discussing this last night. Basically since the miners' strikes I think bugger all has really happened politically
How much wine were you drinking at the time?
Go on then - what big things have happened in the last 30 years?
Not necessary, we just need the EU to offer all current british citizens an EU passport if they want one. Perhaps in return for a one-off payment for life, of say €1000 per citizen. I suspect many would take up the offer. I'm pretty sure I would.
I would, I'm sick of having to explain I'm not English every time Johnny Foreigner looks down his nose at my British passport.
😀 sorry mol, have to take son to station and the list is far too long. But pour me whatever you are enjoying for my return 😀
What day is it today?
Independence Day + 103
How many people actually gave a **** about the Eu pre vote? How big were the anti EU marches that descended upon London? Are we talking anti war size, poll tax size? Or a few miserable express readers?
Or in reality they only voted out because it took minimal effort.
Sure people moaned but they never actually could be bothered to do anything about it. It was as big a moan as about all the repeats on telly.
It really wasn't that big an issue.
Now the country is ****ed. Well ****ing done.
FFS is that really what you think this is? It's not the bloody FA Cup fina
@dazh Chapeau and I do understand point well made but the bile is imo excessive
I was definitely wrong about the EU, 15 years ago I was really quite pro. The pace of expansion and euro catastrophe have seen me switch my view.
I am at a bit of a loss as to how an exporter would be seen as too risky post Brexit, does the buyer really think the company is going to go bust ?
@zokes et al ..l in 10 years the EU will will look radically different, in fact probably within 3 and that's assuming Le Penn doesn't win. If she does it's going to change very fast, she will have either a Frexit Referendum or at the very least one on euro membership. Whether she does win is gong to be afscinating, her father was defeated by tactical voting but she is going to appeal to many on the left not least if France exits the euro it will not be restrained by borrowing li its debt/GDP and lefties will love the prospect of extra spending.
If other countries where given a Referendum they'd be many leavers.
