forget no deal
You can't. It is the default position by law. Doesn't matter if there is no majority for it.
Tick tock. Countdown to this whole bit of a mess exploding in their faces.
May will offer a customs union in some form
But she can't do that without freedom of movement, which is one of her red lines, it's quite a nice corner she's painted herself into.
yep May & Labour would both be promising the same unicorn
forget no dealYou can’t. It is the default position by law. Doesn’t matter if there is no majority for it.
It's like watching someone who's managed to set themselves on fire. The majority might agree that they don't want him to burn to death but if you spend two years arguing over whether you need water, CO2, foam or some non-existent 'technological solution' to put the fire out then he's in trouble, regardless of the agreement that you'd prefer him to not burn to death.
edit: better yet, it's like a group of friends in a houseshare. they've handed their notice in on the current place and the landlord will be kicking them out and changing the locks in three weeks.
Some of them want to move to a cottage in the countryside, some want to go to a city centre flat, a couple want to live in a van, only one wants to sleep in a shop doorway. But if you don't get something sorted the doorway is the default.
But she can’t do that without freedom of movement, which is one of her red lines, it’s quite a nice corner she’s painted herself into.
It's the same red line as Corbyn. Oh, sorry- did you mean a customs union and not the customs union? Like it matters...
Next week will involve the now traditional bickering and squabbling but will fail to change anything on the ground. And the clock keeps ticking...
I'm now completely resigned to a No Deal Brexit. I just can't see any alternative. The fact that most MPs don't want it is neither here nor there. They should have thought of that before they triggered article 50 and voted accordingly.
No Deal is the default position, and one thing thats for sure is that if the shear incompetence of our politicians will deliver anything, the default position is it.
We're crashing out with no deal on the 29th because our political class is too self-serving and useless to deliver anything else
The more pertinent question to ask is what happens then?
yep May & Labour would both be promising the same unicorn
Conveniently ignoring of course the fact that Barnier has said they would be willing to talk about 'a' customs union. Honestly, all of you saying 'you can't' or 'it's not possible' seem to forget this is a negotiation. Whilst it might be unlikely, both sides still have the ability to change their position, irrespective of what they may have said before. Who says you can't have a customs union without FOM? Who says May can't relax or even discard one of her red lines? Ditto Corbyn.
I'm beginning to think much of this is theatre. The stakes are too high for it not to be. Maybe it's wishful thinking but I can't imagine for a second that they haven't already thrashed out agreement on all options and scenarios, and now they just need to see which option parliament will choose.
The more pertinent question to ask is what happens then?
In terms of politics and trade deals it's just the beginning. We crash out and on day one post-Brexit we need to start negotiating new deals. Negotiating with people like the EU, who we've been unable to get a deal with already.
We need to put tariffs on imports if we want any leverage in negotiations (y'know, when the Spanish want Gibraltar back as part of the deal) so stuff gets more expensive.
Conveniently ignoring of course the fact that Barnier has said they would be willing to talk about ‘a’ customs union.
splitting the 4 freedoms would be the end of the EU, why on earth would they agree to it?
we have a choice
the same choice we've always had, if Labour arent grown up enough to admit it, then they are being just as dishonest as the tories
Forget cancelling, forget 2nd votes, forget no deal. There is simply no majority in parliament for any of these things. The only thing that will get a majority is a cross party compromise, and that’s what will happen (probably).
been scratching your magic balls again?
I’m now completely resigned to a No Deal Brexit. I just can’t see any alternative.
Funny cos I'm convinced of the opposite. There will be a deal. Whether that's good or bad is debatable, but there will be a deal. There is too much at stake both politically and economically for both tories and labour, and the EU27 for there not to be.
Think of it this way, the only cast-iron truth in this country when it comes to politics and economics is that the establishment always gets its way. In this case the interests of the establishment are aligned with a soft (or no) brexit, and as usual they will get their way again. Either that or we really are in 'exciting' and chaotic times where all the old rules have been discarded. I doubt it though.
@ Dazh, and when do you thing those négociation are going to take place? For Labour proposals to count they need to be in power, so first off all you need a GE. Then start to négociate if Labour wins. And it is not looking good so far.
No deal is 20 days away, not 20 weeks.
I think her deal will get through.
Just seen a headline where Jeremy ****. sorry, Hunt, has said that EU-UK relations will be poisoned unless Brussels budges. The arrogance of that man amazes me. The whole point of a deal, especially in politics, is that both parties find a middle ground where both are happy enough with the outcome. Why the **** should it be the major party having to move because some bit player is stamping their feet??
I'm angry.
I think everyone must be getting pretty angry that due to this ongoing farce, the country essentially hasn't been governed for the last two years. I know I am, and I'm not alone.
Brexit has devoured everything before it. Our society has all manner of problems that need addressing urgently, but aren't! Because instead our politicians are consumed in a mess of their own making that will ultimately make all our existing problems infinitely worse!
It's absolute madness!
Is anyone listening to her warbling on in Grimsby? Honestly, she makes me so angry! "No accepting the deal risks a Brexit no-one voted for" - hang on one cotton-picking minute!!!!
Brexit has devoured everything before it. Our society has all manner of problems that need addressing urgently, but aren’t! Because instead our politicians are consumed in a mess of their own making that will ultimately make all our existing problems infinitely worse!
It’s absolute madness!
That is the bottom line for me.
No argument in favour of Leave stands up to scrutiny.
Any logical argument for it ends up pointing to bad motivations. See the disaster capitalists and NHS seller-offers.
Any well-intentioned argument for it rapidly breaks down because the result will make the initial problem far worse.
I still cannot think of a single good reason why Brexit of any kind should happen. The will of the people argument is ludicrous - these people need protecting from themselves.
Who says you can’t have a customs union without FOM?
The ill informed.
Who says you can’t have a customs union without FOM?
The people with whom we are seeking a customs union because it is one of their core principles. Remember principles?
We are seeking a new customs union with them because we left their club of our own volition* and have been acting with casual mendacity and breathtaking arrogance with them ever since.
*After stupidly triggering A50 as a result of a very close and highly suspect opinion poll.
The people with whom we are seeking a customs union because it is one of their core principles. Remember principles?
You can't be a member of the customs union without FOM no. But it doesn't seem out of the question that you could negotiate a different agreement that wasn't the same as the CU. You could have a qualified CU with qualified FoM. The EU does have lots of custom arrangements after all. The issue is not the EU's rules, it's the UK's supposed red lines. We haven't tried to change our negotiating stance.
I still cannot think of a single good reason why Brexit of any kind should happen. The will of the people argument is ludicrous – these people need protecting from themselves.
Still banging the dictatorship drum then. Have you ever thought of living in China?
I think everyone must be getting pretty angry that due to this ongoing farce, the country essentially hasn’t been governed for the last two years. I know I am, and I’m not alone.
Must as I despise her, May is playing a blinder. She's aligning herself with every leave voter who doesn't understand why the politicians can't just 'get on with it'. That's why her ratings are perversely as high as they are, because by some miracle of manouevring she's managed to position herself as the people's representative fighting the arrogant and untrustworthy politicians who want to subvert what the people demanded in the referendum. It's very clever, and who knows it might just work.
The issue is not the EU’s rules, it’s the UK’s supposed red lines. We haven’t tried to change our negotiating stance.
She can't or won't change her negotiating stance because the ERG and the DUP wrote her red lines for her and if she even hints that those red lines are negotiable they will go into meltdown and hit self-destruct on the Tory party
And as you've no doubt already noted, holding together the Tory party is the number one priority that trumps everything, even if it means destroying the countries economy in the process
At the end of the day we are all being held to ransom by a handful of headbangers who May has run scared of from day one
Still banging the dictatorship drum then. Have you ever thought of living in China?
Yes - if you promise never to go there.
I agree with all of a binners post for once 🙂
Must as I despise her, May is playing a blinder. She’s aligning herself with every leave voter who doesn’t understand why the politicians can’t just ‘get on with it’.
I think you overestimate her. I think she can't understand why politcians can't just 'get on with it' [and back her deal] either.
The people with whom we are seeking a customs union because it is one of their core principles. Remember principles?
Factually incorrect. Turkey has a customs union with the EU.
Still banging the dictatorship drum then. Have you ever thought of living in China?
What like telling people there has to be a brexit nobody wants?
Maybot 99.1 says if no one votes for her deal then we may never leave the eu not sure why some people are now going to consider voting for her deal ....like those who want to stay in the eu
A few of the less mental ERG lot (everything’s relative, obviously) are already saying they’re going to vote for Mays crappy deal now as they fear not doing so could mean no Brexit
So it’s working
Looks like the question is what labour do, which hardly inspires confidence given their track record on important Brexit votes
A soft Brexit won’t help much over remaining, because Brexiteers will feel cheated and they will have enough grievances about not having control to last generations.
Grumbling as opposed to some serious issues with hard Brexit destroying jobs and stoking some serious fires of resentment.
Like I keep banging on it doesn’t happen day one there’ll be a gradual decline as we become less competive.
Don’t forget the lies that we would ‘roll over’the existing trade deals like that’s happened(4 at last count and the teeny ones),no shit Sherlock that requires the other players to roll over and they’re most definately not going to settle for the same deal when they can get us when we’re all alone.
But yep Remaining makes more sense.
Factually incorrect. Turkey has a customs union with the EU.
Spoilsport
What like telling people there has to be a brexit nobody wants?
how can you say that?
May's deal accurately reflects the will of teh people & definitely wont leade to bitter recriminations & further resentment
Factually incorrect. Turkey has a customs union with the EU.
I could try to 'Karen Bradley' my way out of this by claiming a small mis-speak followed by a large misinterpretation by others........
But, hands up, you are right there and I am wrong.
Well Brexit means Brexit and we’re having a red,white and blue one 🙂
Whats truely frightening is putting Disgraced Fox in charge of negotiating trade deals there’s some seriously bad stuff gonna come out of it and i’m Not exactly sure that there’s any significant parliamentary oversight on this stuff so we think Graylings bad but looks like Fox’s got carte Blanche.(I’m hoping someone sparks up with I’m wrong)
are Labour not also saying that we can keep an independent trade policy, whilst remaining in the CU though
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46891257
And with immaculate timing, a reminder of the intellectual heavyweights we have backing Brexit. Co-chair of the ERG no less.
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1104006646395633667
Will Self did refine his line the second time around from 'did' to pretty much probably did.
I thought that was the most interesting part of that.
The stare was good too.
30 days to go, holy moly we are doomed.
10 bonus days! Sweet.
Will self's use of teh Stewart Lee quote obviously really upsets Brexiters
They dont like to admit that on Brexit they sided with the racists, so they act with faux indignation as Francois did, trying to twist it into an attack on all Leave voters- this is easier than admitting its true or maybe looking too closely at their own motivations.
This popped up earlier on Facebook, nice somethingion of where we are currently I thought. (NSFW warning, bit sweary)
This is worth a read too. From @uk_domain_names on Twitter.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eYS7uSlCi_kDYXcXOtXeZ611hNLW7fKJ/view
Breaking: Brexiter deadlock resolved.
A medieval game of "brexit-ball" will decide once and for all the type of leave deal we go for.
Remainers only get a shot if the leavers manage to completely wipe each other out.
The game will take place on the 28th of March.
Mr B Johnson couldn't commit to joining in on the day due a dodgy right foot.
(NSFW)
