ION,
I've just received an office-wide email inviting me to a work's do, they're going out for drinks.
In Wetherspoons.
On March 29th.
Was having a "discussion" with some brexiteers a couple of weeks ago.
We got onto the topic of the need for immigrants. I pointed out that the UK is at almost full unemployment. I challenged the brexiteers that if we were to significantly reduce the number of immigrants, where would the people come from to fill the jobs?
One of the responses was "it'll be ok as brexit will cause a recession so companies will lay folk off anyway so therefore there will be less jobs going therefore we don't need the immigrants"
On one hand, he's right.
On the other hand, I'd like to use that hand to punch his stupid face into a bloody pulp
Did anyone see this week’s Jon oliver (last week tonight)?
A colleague in Portugal mentioned to me about how funny the 'brexit box' part was. However he stopped laughing when I told him I was indeed stockpiling medicine and food. At least he stopped laughing eventually when he realized I was not joking.
Sigh. This is a bit like a football team losing a match with a last minute controversial penalty decision against them. The fans howl afterwards about how unfair it is and how the referee is incompetent. Sometimes the referee even admits he made a mistake. But do they replay the match? No. They accept it and move on
You would think so, eh?
https://www.dawn.com/news/94681
Such was the furore surrounding the goal that Arsenal immediately offered to replay the tie and they won the second match 2-1.
ION,
I’ve just received an office-wide email inviting me to a work’s do, they’re going out for drinks.
In Wetherspoons.
On March 29th.
Do you work for Leave.EU?
*this is a silly analogy I admit but it’s a fairly true picture of where we are.
if we are going for silly analogies why not use a cycling one.
Spear wins the tour de france.
Spear is then found to have been doping and so loses the title and is chased in the courts for other things.
The major problem with the referendum is, if it had been binding, then there is a good chance it would have been ruled invalid due to the relaxed approach to campaigning by some.
However since it isnt there is limited scope to intervene.
So we are in the odd situation where it is being treated as binding despite the fact that if it was there would be lots of awkward legal questions to answer about its validity.
I’ve just received an office-wide email inviting me to a work’s do, they’re going out for drinks.
In Wetherspoons.
On March 29th.
Do you work for Leave.EU?
Or are you going there to **** the place up?
Do you work for Leave.EU?
I questioned the email (with reference to needing a new Irony-o-meter). I got back,
"No idea what you mean, I am not so in to what goes on with Brexit lol ;o)"
Le sigh.
On the back of a few things this past week.
I've always been pretty left-wing and believed in supporting those less fortunate in society via taxation and redistribution of wealth. It always seemed to be the fairest thing to do.
Since the vote I've heard people spout on about 'taking back control', 'making Britain great again', 'Beating the Germans once and for all', 'getting rid of the ****s' and such bollocks.
I've read on here, and elsewhere, how the working class in deprived areas want Brexit and don't give a **** about people like me who want opportunities for our children above and beyond a minimum wage job or continuing to claim benefits; this has been confirmed by conversations with the dimmer end of my family who have, since the closure of the pits, sat on the dole moaning about how they deserve more of everything, and are fervent supporters of a no deal Brexit 'cos Britain is great and we'll win out against those nasty foreigners in the end.
They really do believe that they are poor because loads of foreigners are coming over here being given shedloads of cash and free houses.
They don't care that Brexit will reduce opportunities for others as they have no aspirations for themselves or their kids so it doesn't matter if they mess up other peoples lives.
So if it all goes to shit then they deserve what is coming to them; we can easily absorb a 20% hike in living costs if necessary, lets hope they can.
From now on I will be in it for me and mine.
They can **** right off.
I am currently being bombarded with schlager music, and for the first time feel myself coming over all brexity.
I’m currently having a joust with a couple of dimwits on Facebook about all this. One has clearly bought the alt-right playbook. He claims to be anti every ‘ism’ and pro ‘getting rid of the whole lot and starting again according to what the people want’. His mate, on the other hand reposts Katie Hopkins articles.
They’re getting quite angry now.
Which is nice.
Will this thread die after march 29th?
Or will a new one start
Nope, this thread, like brexit will carry on ruining your lives for years to come😁
I don't know if any of you followed proceedings in the Court of Appeal today on whether the referendum was held legally or was fraudulent.
Well the outcome was that it wasn't fraudulent because it was advisory. But, "Judges have confirmed categorically that had the vote been mandatory the referendum would have been quashed".
So there you have it. By declaring "it's non-binding but we'll honour the result", there is no redress for illegal behaviour.
Will this thread die after march 29th?
Or will a new one start
The new thread will be 'When should we join the EU'?
That makes sense in legal terms but none at all otherwise. What a bonkers country we live in.
I don’t know if any of you followed proceedings in the Court of Appeal today on whether the referendum was held legally or was fraudulent.
Well the outcome was that it wasn’t fraudulent because it was advisory. But, “Judges have confirmed categorically that had the vote been mandatory the referendum would have been quashed”.
So there you have it. By declaring “it’s non-binding but we’ll honour the result”, there is no redress for illegal behaviour.
Got a link to a news report.. my googling shows nothing and nothing obvious on the guardian.. I'd have thought they'dd have jumped at that
If you want to truly go through the looking glass then have a chat with the far left brexiteers
Two of them drink in my local and I was stupidly talking to them about Brexit last Friday night. Both retired on good final salary pensions, both list Dennis Skinner as their political hero. Both love Corbyn and are labour through and through, they’re both educated and intelligent. Decent blokes usually. Both are rabidly anti-EU! Brexit at any cost! (They’re hardly likely to be the ones paying the cost, obviously)
Anyway, after much debate with me finding it increasingly incomprehensible that they could support what is clearly such a right wing project, one of the stated, and I’ll quote him directly:
“We need to get our sovereignty back! The EU is just a German dictatorship! It’s basically them just completing the work of the third reich”
I mean.... where do you even start with that?
I didn’t even bother. Just shook my head in complete bewilderment and went to rejoin the real world
Got a link to a news report.. my googling shows nothing and nothing obvious on the guardian.. I’d have thought they’dd have jumped at that
Tweets from Liz Webster https://twitter.com/abcpoppins
It was mentioned the other day, and I'd been wondering myself, did the pro-Brexit STW'ers stop posting on this thread because they realized they had no valid defense, or did they give up posting in the face of not being able to convince anyone of their beliefs?
Liam's been busy...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47319533
Actually he hasn't. Oh well, never mind.
Hopefully some Brexiteers will be along in a minute to tell us again how this is a GOOD thing.
Sigh. This is a bit like a football team losing a match with a last minute controversial penalty decision against them. The fans howl afterwards about how unfair it is and how the referee is incompetent.
a football match is a hobby, not an economy that relies on trade networks to feed and provide for 67 million people.
so no, not really.
That makes sense in legal terms but none at all otherwise. What a bonkers country we live in.
It misrepresents the decision the Court threw it out because Parliament voted a bill through to trigger Article 50 and that supersedes other considerations. For the referendum to be non-advisory then it needs to automatically bring into effect an act of parliament that is already on the statute book.
Blimey, what a tangled web we weave.
+1 dangerousbeans. I will never vote Labour or Tory again, simply for the party that offers the lowest tax and the easiest time for me and my non-British wife.
I couldn't give two ****s about the working classes anymore.
But, but, but DFDS Fox Told us he'd have 40 lined up by Brexit day!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47319533
AS much as the Labour implosion is a car crash, how long will it take for the Tories to recover their reputation as the 'party of business' (tbf Fox always was a ridiculous choice for the job)
So if it all goes to shit then they deserve what is coming to them; we can easily absorb a 20% hike in living costs if necessary, lets hope they can.
And this is exactly why they voted for brexit. You see they don't give a shit about your life or the patronising sympathy you may have had for them, or the taxes you think you generously pay. You think they don't want opportunities for their kids like you do? The difference is that people like yourself who can afford a 20% drop in wealth as you proudly proclaim are in a position to give their kids a leg up. Because the taxes you and everyone above you pay are not enough to provide decent opportunities and services for people who don't have the luxury of savings or disposable income to pay for the things you take for granted. So yes, they'll vote for a change, any change. They'll grasp at any straw that is offered them. And yes, sadly, they'll also be taken in by snake oil salesmen telling them that it's the fault of foreigners or whoever else is an easy scapegoat, because they're too busy trying to pay the bills and feed their kids to figure out who's really at fault.
dazh you seem to be romanticizing these downtrodden cry-for-help brexiters
the demographics & pesumably motivation for voting leave are far more complex than that
Leave is associated with older age, white ethnicity, low educational attainment, infrequent use of smartphones and the internet, receiving benefits, adverse health and low life satisfaction. These results coincide with corresponding patterns at the aggregate level of voting areas. We therefore do not find evidence of ecological fallacy. In addition, we show that prediction accuracy is geographically heterogeneous across UK regions, with strongly pro-Leave and strongly pro-Remain areas easier to predict. We also show that among individuals with similar socio-economic characteristics, Labour supporters are more likely to support Remain while Conservative supporters are more likely to support Leave.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0176268018301320
that aside its obvious that brexit is a shitshow & damaging the country & that the poorest will suffer the most, why do you seem so keen for that to happen?
You see they don’t give a shit about your life or the patronising sympathy you may have had for them, or the taxes you think you generously pay. You think they don’t want opportunities for their kids like you do?
They don't though do they, you see this in their children's attitude towards education. The working classes have a lot of contempt for teachers and education in general.
It's pure entitlement.
wealth as you proudly proclaim are in a position to give their kids a leg up.
Why the **** should I give one of thier multiple thick kids a leg up as opposed to some bright kids from the developing world? Why are they allowed to spew out as many kids as they ****ing like without satisfying border control that their income can cover it?
Border control on vaginas please.
You haven't convinced me, **** them all.
Dazh isn't romanticising anything. I think he's trying to take a proper look at society rather than just blurt out 'leavers are ****s'.
I'm a remainer, I'm as horrified as anyone, but even I'm finding this kind of thoughtlessness hard to swallow.
I’m finding it hard to add to any brexit disgusion out of sheer head slapping frustration but...
You’re implying there were proper ‘rules’ for the referendum;)
To torture the football analogy further, any team breaking financial fair play are sanctioned and anyone in administration are relegated. Just playing an unregistered or banned player can result in a 3-0 forfeit. Shall I go on?
Of course, football rules, whilst not perfect, have been refined over many years and challenged in the courts on occasion…
Not all teams that fail ffp get sanctioned and no one has ever been relegated for going in to administration. They get a points deduction that may lead to relegation but plenty have survived it, my team Leeds a decent example having been deducted 15 points but then nearly getting promoted.
And this is exactly why they voted for brexit. You see they don’t give a shit about your life or the patronising sympathy you may have had for them, or the taxes you think you generously pay. You think they don’t want opportunities for their kids like you do? The difference is that people like yourself who can afford a 20% drop in wealth as you proudly proclaim are in a position to give their kids a leg up. Because the taxes you and everyone above you pay are not enough to provide decent opportunities and services for people who don’t have the luxury of savings or disposable income to pay for the things you take for granted. So yes, they’ll vote for a change, any change. They’ll grasp at any straw that is offered them. And yes, sadly, they’ll also be taken in by snake oil salesmen telling them that it’s the fault of foreigners or whoever else is an easy scapegoat, because they’re too busy trying to pay the bills and feed their kids to figure out who’s really at fault.
Taxes certainly won’t be enough if we continue to spunk £800m a week or whatever it is on preparing for an act of self harm. You seem remarkably angry about the parlous state people are in, but then use this as a reason as to why they must be screwed over. Strange times. Strange contortions people are putting themselves in.
Anyone who still thinks we should go through with this falls into two categories. Exploiters who are going to make a quick buck when the country burns or cretins. The types who think they’re getting National Socialism (you know, the ones who wear a leather jacket with a shirt and tie) are also cretins, because the real movers behind this don’t give a shit about them.
Exploiter or cretin. Or call it off. It couldn’t be clearer.
dazh you seem to be romanticizing these downtrodden cry-for-help brexiters
Nope, not romanticising them at all. I grew up as one of them and got out at the first opportunity as I couldn't stand the small minded parochial mindset of a Newcastle council estate. They used to call me a snob, and still do. I even got called a traitor once when I went back to the local pub after a long time away. Doesn't mean I don't understand where they're coming from, or what they're thinking*.
They really don't care what the middle classes think of them. They hate them quite frankly, and would happily make themselves poorer if they thought it would burst the comfortable and hubristic bubble that exists in places like this forum. That may be irrational, but they're used to dealing with adversity, and one more thing to deal with is not really going to trouble them.
*It's not universal to be fair, attitudes towards brexit are varied, but I can guarantee that any hint of snobbery will send them into the arms of the brexiteers.
Too obviously provocative raybanwomble. Nought out of ten.
one more thing to deal with is not really going to trouble them
That is where you are wrong. They only think they have nothing now. But they can go to the local hospital for free with whatever ailments they may have. That will go.
The working classes have a lot of contempt for teachers and education in general.
Cockwomble, surely.
It comes down to politicians doing thier jobs (or not).
If brexit was a costed project it would never have gotten out of incubation due to all the questions and the potential massive cost.
MPs are not project managers, but they bloody well should be, it's not thier job to do as they're told, but they should consider the electorates opinion and act in the best interests of all.
This doesn't seem to happen, and is dereliction of duty.
They only think they have nothing now.
Try going to a council estate pub in Newcastle or Sunderland and giving the locals a lecture on how they don't understand how hard things can get. I can guarantee you'll be lucky to walk out under your own steam.
Dazh.
I come from the same streets too, this is predominantly my family I'm talking about who despise me because I worked like hell to get out rather than just sit in Castleford doing **** all after the pits closed.
I always thought they could get out too but the bottom line is most of them just can't be bothered.
They don't want a fair crack of the whip, they want it on a plate, no risk, no cost to them. And if they don't get it run it surely must be someone else's fault.
That's what really worries me, I'm almost 40, and I've enjoyed a very cushty life despite having an overdraft, bad credit, and not being able to secure a mortgage despite earning enough to pay for it.
I think a lot of people don't appreciate just how lucky they are to live in times of such stability.
Maybe it really will take the price of a pint of milk rising to a fiver, and empty supermarket shelves before they understand that there is no universal guarantee that "every thing is fine and it always will be".
dazh while I agree that mtbing is a middle class hobby, were not all wood burning stove, T4 drivers that winter in courcheval.
Also grew up in a council estate, tho moved away when I was 6, have friends & family who had similar backgrounds to me & still voted leave- my brother being a good case control there, hes married a racist lazy idiot & sadly spouts the same crap she does.
School for him was always about footy with his mates, i went to uni 1st in my family etc, he joined the navy- got electrician qaulification, earns more than me, but still has racked up crazy debts with his stupid wife- blaming immigrants & the EU is simply easier for him than admitting that he made crap decisions.
Brexit is properly straining my realtionship with him, quite frankly he is an idiot, his wifes company (also electrical) is struggling to stockpile b4 brexit & obviously its all the EUs fault. I had to leave the room.
Dont get me started on my parents.....
Its obvious to all that brexit is a car crash of epic proportions, that so many people still think its a good idea, is evidence that people are doubling down on the tribalism & are going to be in for a painful come down when it doesnt deliver what was promised.
Totally agree with Mattyfez
We’ve been very very lucky in this country. More through luck than judgement in most cases. Though you can’t acknowledge that in this atmosphere of Nationalist English Exceptionalism
Just because it’s never happened here before, doesn’t mean it won’t....
People need to wake up to reality, rather than the cosy nationalist fairy tales they’ve been sold by the right wing press (who can easily afford a five pound pint of milk in there tax-free nirvana)
Try going to a council estate pub in Newcastle or Sunderland and giving the locals a lecture on how they don’t understand how hard things can get. I can guarantee you’ll be lucky to walk out under your own steam.
Give it five years and I won’t have to.
So, what you are basically saying is:
We have to let them get screwed over because it is what they want.
Yet, you jump on people who say “**** em, it’s what they voted for”.
Strange times. Strange contortions.
Shit is going to hit the fan big time, I don't think brexit punters really understood the damage it would cause to UK food supply's and possibly a 40% tariff on basic food stuff.
To be honest it's a mahoosive f-up.
And scary, ridiculous situation.
Shit is going to hit the fan big time, I don’t think brexit punters really understood the damage it would cause to UK food supply’s and possibly a 40% tariff on basic food stuff.
To be honest it’s a mahoosive f-up.
And scary, ridiculous situation.
But we can’t call it off because people in council estate pubs in Sunderland will kick off if they aren’t allowed to be screwed over by their own hang ups and prejudices.
Is anyone else starting to think that even LSD wouldn’t make this shit seem any weirder?
