Meanwhile in Ramsgate, the ferry company with no ferries may soon not have access to the unsuitable port it wanted to dock the non existent ferries at :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47144762
I used to wear Speedos in the 70's - when we used to drive to Spain for our cheap summer holidays . . . In my defence, I was under 10 at the time.
Some people still don’t get it.
CORBYN WANTS BREXIT AND WILL MAKE SURE WE HAVE IT.
Well he can't have Brexit AND that other list of stuff he says he wants, so he needs to make his mind up.
The EU are divided, some want the UK in, some want the UK out, some want to shake it all about.
That they may be but they know that they are stronger as one so are putting their differences to one side for the greater good - something the UK could be learning from.
Tusks comments are designed to piss of the UK and make sure we hard Brexit as opposed to stay in.
Sounded to me like the rant of a reasonable man who's been banging his head against the wall for so long now the building is in need of structural support.
Sounded to me like the rant of a reasonable man who’s been banging his head against the wall for so long now the building is in need of structural support.
and the STUPID WOMAN is coming back again today!! Why is she coming back!! What is the point!!!!!
Sounded to me like the rant of a reasonable man who’s been banging his head against the wall for so long now the building is in need of structural support.
He has been gently cajoling and comforting our elected representatives for the past two years with nowt to show for it. Perhaps he thinks the calculated risk of prodding them with a sharp stick is worth a go at this late hour.
Strategy may come into it. If he can separate off the likes of Bone and Francois by agitating them into a froth of fury, it could actually force May to turn to a crossparty consensus instead and opt for a softer Brexit including a customs union.
There are two paths to an agreement for May at the moment
1) ERG+DUP+a few select Labour bribees
2) Cross party softer deal which would require LD and Lab support of some kind.
If Tusk could help wind up the ERGers/right wing media enough to reject just about any withdrawal agreement, perhaps it makes the second option the only possibility (I notice that Juncker was also on the wind-up with his 'stronger ROI' celebration)
All high-risk stuff at this point. But perhaps the time for diplomacy is over.
Oh goody! Another Brexie Bonus - we get roaming charges back! Yah!!
If Tusk could help wind up the ERGers/right wing media enough to reject just about any withdrawal agreement, perhaps it makes the second option the only possibility (I notice that Juncker was also on the wind-up with his ‘stronger ROI’ celebration)
Problem is that this would look like Labour helping the Tories get their Brexit.
Indeed corbyns offer to help may is quite reasonable to many Tories I'd imagine.
But it does put a lie to his pledge to listen to members.
As he's failed to get rid of May or get a GE, wasn't he supposed to be supporting a second ref about now?
Is that RemoanRoaming?
🤣
The EU is full of reasonable people, it’s in thier nature. That’s why the EU was born, and hence the reasoned agreements of reasonable people to trade and be friends.
The UK is half full of single minded obnoxious memememememeitsallaboutme’s hence we’re split as a nation and have a bunch of retards in government.
The UK deserves all it gets.
Roaming charges? Great. Best I start looking for a new mobile phone operator then
Yeah roaming....
Day tripping to Paris yesterday being able to do maps, tether my ohone respond to emails for no extra was quite nice. CDG seem to have a separate passport line for brits already. Maybe we can put the charges on JRM's expenses form.
The UK deserves all it gets.
Well no, half the UK deserve what they get. Can't we just build a wall around them? That seems to be the level of engagement they want with the rest if the world.
As he’s failed to get rid of May or get a GE, wasn’t he supposed to be supporting a second ref about now?
He says a lot of things.
I believe his aim is a Brexit based around a largely devalued £ to make the UK a cheap place to make stuff again, factories, employment up (although it's currently at an all-time record) lifestyle down, but ideally when the electorate realise they can't have another cheap Audi on PCP it's the Tories fault, not his.
I'll never vote Labour again whilst he's leader, the man's an utter fraud and an ardent Brexiteer. Labour will lose every general election they contest with him as leader, but he'll never quit. I mean he lost a confidence vote by 172-40, only to decide he didn't care and carried on.
This may have been discussed earlier, but :-
The eu and UK are desperate to avoid a hard border in Ireland (and desperate to avoid no deal you would presume)
But if we leave at the end of march with no deal, won't a hard border be there by default?
So isn't it in both sides interest to compromise in some way of this issue? Ie if neither side compromises they are going to get the very thing they both do not want?
I see a compromise occurring here(probably at the last second, and probably by both the eu and uk) , we've just got to get through all the dancing around first.
Agreed P-Jay. I saw a poll result on twitter that Labours handling of brexit is having a bigger negative impact on their ratings and votoer intentiosn than their part in the Irac war. I struggle to think who I'll vote for next time. I'm naturally a liberal voer but it seems pointless.
However. If we could make his demands to May legally enforcable in a politcal decleration, I'd be quite happy wit that. Yes we'd be in a worse place than we are now, and it would to a certain extent be pointless, but we arent now going to remain so will undoubtedly be worse off whatever happens. At least with close ties to the EU we wont be munching down too much chlorine while fettling Trump's chicken
<blockquoteThe EU is full of reasonable people, it’s in thier nature. That’s why the EU was born, and hence the reasoned agreements of reasonable people to trade and be friends.
The UK is half full of single minded obnoxious memememememeitsallaboutme’s hence we’re split as a nation and have a bunch of retards in government.
There are brexiteer equivalents in all the EU countries. But their governments haven't been stupid enough to give them a referendum on leaving.
Julians - a hard border is a result of no deal yes. However the EU cannot compromise any further than they have. They have already handed the UK a huge competitive advantage by allowing a UK wide customs union for the transition that the UK can take advantage of without meeting all EU standards etc. Any further compromise would threaten the structures of the EU completely. The EU have moved a long way. The UK has not at all.
To be fair to Tusk and co, if i had had to listen to 2 years of Farrage, Boris and the Maybot spouting almost non-stop rubbish i suspect that "GTFO already" would be my thinking.
They are being incredibly patient and i see little evidence that our politicians and negotiators warrant that.
Agreed P-Jay. I saw a poll result on twitter that Labours handling of brexit is having a bigger negative impact on their ratings and votoer intentiosn than their part in the Irac war. I struggle to think who I’ll vote for next time. I’m naturally a liberal voer but it seems pointless.
I voted for them in 2010, not because I blamed Gordon Brown for the Great Recession or for the Iraq war, but because no government survives a recession like that and certainly not one headed by someone who (somewhat justifiably) was billed as an economic genius by his peers around the world. The Nick did a great job in the debates and I felt they could do something. I think a lot of people felt cheated when they threw in with the Tories, but as we've seen it stopped them doing a lot of stupid stuff.
Tim Fallon was a complete deal breaker for me, but Vince Cable is a decent sort it seems.
Farage says 'EU staring down the barrel of a gun'.
Sounded to me like the rant of a reasonable man who’s been banging his head against the wall for so long now the building is in need of structural support.
When asked again what "hell" looked like… he said it was doing his current job. Hard to disagree with that.
Still… Brexit means Brexit… our PM couldn't be clearer.
A reminder that we have some MPs who can talk without a forked tongue…
https://twitter.com/davidlammy/status/1093238722341015552?s=21
So isn’t it in both sides interest to compromise in some way of this issue? Ie if neither side compromises they are going to get the very thing they both do not want?
I see a compromise occurring here(probably at the last second, and probably by both the eu and uk) , we’ve just got to get through all the dancing around first.
The UK has the power to sort it out. The eu has given the UK some options, we have to pick one. In case we forget its the UK that has no power to fix shit here we have to work out how to do this in line with our existing commitments however inconvenient it is for the fantasist wing.
I wonder if anyone is really engaged with this subject any more? I am no fan of the EU but I stand to lose personally from No Deal and even maybe from May Deal. However, it just feels like the die is cast. Brexit is gonna happen. It's gonna be crap. We'll find out just how crap in due course, but the discussions about this option or that seem just to be so far removed from reality that there's no point in thinking about them, and the words of politicians on all sides are just empty air.
Wake me up when it's over.
You mean wake you up once it's started? Yes? The idea that the reorganisation of the UK economy, and our arrangements with the rest of the world, will be "over" anytime soon is a fantasy. We're about to hit the "burn it down" stage that is just a starting point for a fight over what these countries are going to become. Just the starting point.
There are brexiteer equivalents in all the EU countries. But their governments haven’t been stupid enough to give them a referendum on leaving.
Exactly. The other countries have just as many idiots in them. I would guess that if every one of the 27 EU countries had a referendum the EU would consist of about 3 countries.
You know it's almost as though no-one considered the Irish border issue before deciding if the referendum was a good idea. Isn't it David?
Owen Smith (remember him?) has just been interviewed on Five Live, and making a lot more bloody sense than the useless sod all the sixth formers elected instead. He was derided at the time I think we'd be in a very different, infinitely preferable place now if we had a leaderof the opposition who had the remotest interest in actually opposing
What he was saying was difficult to argue with. It looks like Corbyn is laying the ground now to support May in getting her deal through, and selling the labour membership, who he claims to be listening too, down the river. This is because he's an unreconstructed 70's Bennite, who still holds exactly the same opinions and wants us out of the EU. Also mentioned that in the event of the beardie messiah trying to whip his MPs to vote through a deal there are a good amount of them who would leave the party instead
Owen Smith (remember him?) has just been interviewed on Five Live, and making a lot more bloody sense than the useless sod all the sixth formers elected instead.
You are always missing the point that the further away from power you are, the plainer you can speak. He doesn't have to tread the fine line that Corbyn does, so he can say what he likes. Likewise Lib Dems and SNP.
The idea that the reorganisation of the UK economy, and our arrangements with the rest of the world, will be “over” anytime soon is a fantasy.
True enough - could be a long sleep 🙁 But really, I'm just tired of thinking about it! MissusJ is a damned forriner so her status post March 29 is not certain, so it could be bad news for us, still - I can't take any more of the endless bull-dust 🙁
Corbyn's fine line… enabling Brexit and damaging his party, and the lives of those who voted for him… while holding onto his position just long enough to win one election after Brexit… when he can then try and undo some of the damage he wished upon us all, before the regrouped Tories come back with Thatcherism on steroids. Get your thank you cards ready to send…
He doesn’t have to tread the fine line that Corbyn does
Corbyn does not have to tread a fine line, he has chosen his path, it has not been forced upon him, in fact he is opposing the labour party memberships wish for a second ref.
I am quite tired of people trying to wish upon May and Corbyn some kind of Machiavellian scheming, when it is quite clear they are both incompetent and dysfunctional.
Corbyn’s fine line… enabling Brexit and damaging his party, and the lives of those who voted for him… all while holding onto his position just long enough to win one election after Brexit… when he can then try and undo some of the damage he wished upon us all. Get your thank you cards ready to send…
This plus a zillion. Except that it now is clear that enabling Brexit will cost him even that election, as the under-35s who had been optimistic voters last time desert in droves.
But if we leave at the end of march with no deal, won’t a hard border be there by default?
Thing is, will it be a real hard border or a paper hard border?
On our side of the border there is no infra-structure, and not enough Customs or Border Force staff to enforce it.
I can't imageine that on April 1st there will suddenly be thousands of uniforms , (complete with Cyril Blakey moustaches and clip boards), physically stopping lorries until they have completed a full paper customs declaration and goods examination.
I have a feeling that in the event of a no deal, there won’t be a real hard border on our side, for the short term at least. I doubt there will be one on the EU side either, for the same reasons.
Practical considerations will beat all the politicking.
Yip. I think the scales have now fallen from the eyes of all but the most terminally deluded with regard to Corbyn. Restoring democracy to the party, my arse! He's not the remotest interest in representing anyones views but his own. And he's a rabid brexiteer. Always was, always will be
Unless theres a radical change of course, we're heading for a hard Brexit, entirely enabled by Corbyn as well as May, and the labour party will be held just as accountable for the resulting chaos.
Corbyn won't do the honourable thing though. He'll cling on and lead the party to be wiped out at the next election. I really can't see anything else other than an exodus of MPs and the disintigration o the Labour party. Lets face it, its been on the cards since the day that muppet accidentally got elected leader
I am quite tired of people trying to wish upon May and Corbyn some kind of Machiavellian scheming, when it is quite clear they are both incompetent and dysfunctional.
I'm not crediting them with scheming - I'm saying they are both boxed in by Brexit voters (not party members). If they were good at scheming they'd find a way to get their way whilst not pandering to voters. They are both in impossible positions. Only difference is it's May's fault for both of them.
A tweet from someone or other:
Labour HQ clearly a bit panicked by reaction from MPs/ members to Brexit letter - am hearing a letter from Jeremy Corbyn will be sent out to members shortly that makes clear a second referendum *is* still on the table, as per party policy.
Nobody cares about your freakin' table any more Corbyn !!!
Im not a Corbyn fan boi/apologist by any stretch but some of the knee jerk vehement reaction to his move today doesn't sit easily with me. It could actually be deeply pragmatic and tactical, this comment from Guardian live put it best:
Corbyns offer is pretty timely and smart. It closes the 'Labour will reject any deal' excuse May pulls up constantly, hardens Europe towards giving May a larger straw and allows Labour to open up the other options on the table once she rejects this, including the centrists love the 'peoples vote'. That re-run can only be a final option for Labour once others are rejected, surely even the hardest remainer sees this, unless you all want civil disobedience on your home streets and the MSM burn the idea down before it flies. Some Labour 'supporters' here seem unable to see this. Many I suspect have never voted Labour in their lives though!
Union poll shows 'backing Brexit would be worse for Labour than Iraq invasion' - ITV News
while holding onto his position just long enough to win one election after Brexit…
Not a snowballs chance in a CAT scanner. He had his chance in '17, they'd like to believe that his better than expected result (they still lost of course) was due to a Youth uprising and how as older, more Tory included boomers die and more young people get to vote he'll do better last time. Sadly, it's not true, post-election stats show that in actual fact he was boosted by millions of disenchanted 'New' Labour voters, who, when it came to it, couldn't vote elseware or stay away.
I know personally I was promised by our local Labour rep that they would fight Brexit and felt duty bound to offer the public a second vote based on facts and not promises, so I voted for them, I won't be fooled again and I doubt I'm alone.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47152035
"Theresa May and Jean-Claude Juncker have described their talks on changing the Brexit deal as "robust but constructive", in a joint statement".
"The two leaders agreed to meet for further talks before the end of February".
Can kicked further down the street then?
mickmcd
Member
https://amp.ft.com/content/7beae1d2-2a39-11e9-a5ab-ff8ef2b976c7Very disturbing
Posted 5 hours ago REPLY | REPORT
molgripsSubscriber
Paywall. What’s it say?
It says that so far Liam Fox has only managed to agree FTA rollovers with Israel, chile & the Faroe islands, continuity deals with otswana, Lesotho, Mozambique, Namibia, South Africa and Swaziland-South & East African Trade partnership, mutual recognition with NZ & Aus & nearly with Switzerland- which is about 5% of the deals we have via the EU right now.
Even if May gets a deal through there could be huge gaps in the supply chains, to which SME could be particularly vulnerable, but the government are refusing to release details of exactly which deals they will have in place
who couldve guess that DFDS Liam fox wouldve have been so utterly incomeptent
STW USERS WANT THEIR PRIVACY STROKED AND WILL MAKE SURE WE HAVE IT TOO
Almost, but not quite, completely correct, in my case...
🤔🤯😱🤗🥳
Carry on.
I’m saying they are both boxed in by Brexit voters (not party members)
They have both boxed themselves in pandering to brexit voters misconceptions and lies. And they are continuing to do so, neither is showing any willingness to "do right by the country" instead they are still stoking up the anti eu fantasies, completely ignoring reality, just on a quest for personal power. They are so entrenched into their lies and fantasies that they are refusing to see the clear options available to them.
