majority amendment to allow a No Brexit Option
No way. It's against the positions of both party leaderships.
No way. It’s against the positions of both party leaderships.
I was referring to a point where the wishes of both party leaders mean sweet f all in this context. I can see many MP's not giving a crap what their leader says on the 28th March.
Don't know if anyone watched it, but the Inside Europe programme on BBC2 last night was pretty instructive. It was all about the Greek crisis and how close the euro and Greece came to collapsing. In the end it was all sorted after the Tsipras the greek PM called a referendum on the EU bailout after spelling out that if the Greek people didn't accept they would be expelled from the Euro and the EU, which would result in the collapse of the economy. Something tells me the same needs to happen with brexit, although no doubt we'd be stupid enough to vote for collapse.
Followed by a snap election which will see the Tories win a narrow majority under Raab or similar
I genuinely don't know who to vote for if that happened... Probably Green Party.
if May gets her agreement through she will be immediately replaced by someone else.
She bought herself a year in the job with the vote of confidence last year. So we're stuck with her, she'll never call a general election & I can't imagine she would resign.
she’ll never call a general election
It's unlikely, but traditionally, and constitutionally, if the government of the day can't command a majority in order implement it's policy, then a general election is the only viable solution. Even after everything that has happened to date, that is still the case. She may have little choice but to call an election, whether she wants one or not.
good article from Big Tone. It would be great if we could all take a step back and realise where we are, what we're doing, what we look like.
The situation's no different to how it was 2 1/2 years ago, though, we needed to have worked out what we wanted before we boarded the Article 50 train.
Utter dross from Blair, waffle bla bla blurr... dross. The headline doesn't read "the only sensible, practical positive move is to withdraw Art. 50". Anything less is adding to the sea of mealy-mouthed waffle and indcision.
He's the dick who first promised a referendum.
I don't think it's dross. It's waffly because it's trying to say stuff that's already been said in a new way, to spark a moment of clarity in some people who've not been able to see it. None of it's new, except the particular timescales this week.
No disagreeing to your other comment, but can you say a referendum on the EU is his original idea? Seems everyone's had a go at suggesting it from time to time if they've seen some votes in it.
Something tells me the same needs to happen with brexit, although no doubt we’d be stupid enough to vote for collapse.
I thought we had.
She’s in Belfast going blah blah blah. Absolutely nothing she’s saying is dealing with the fact that the E.U. negotiators have repeatedly said the deal signed and is not up for discussion.
Everybody knows that No Deal is preferable to them than altering the backstop.
Does she REALLY think they’re suddenly going to go back on that now, having repeatedly said no? Why the hell would they?
She’s trying to suggest deals made with Eire to the exclusion of the E.U. Eire has already said that as far as they are concerned, they are spoken for and defended by and are a part of, the E.U.
Hopeless. Ridiculous. Useless.
... and as she speaks the £ is down against the € from it’s start today...
She’s in Belfast going blah blah blah. Absolutely nothing she’s saying is dealing with the fact that the E.U. negotiators have repeatedly said the deal signed and is not up for discussion.
I don't know how you can even say tat Wopster, when she's just made this relevant and groundbreaking announcement that is a real game-changer.
From the Guardian site right now....
May says the ties of family and friendship between the UK and Ireland are more important than ever. There is a yearning for a close relationship. That is why she will work with Leo Varadkar, the Irish PM, to achieve this.
She says the Irish government has suggested annual meetings, where both PMs and their ministers could come together to discuss issues.
May floats the prospect of the UK and Ireland staging a joint World Cup bid for 2030, provided the two respective football associations approve the idea.
Ah football, that'll swing it.
I've followed from a far as I have (or had) a few vested interests.
Blair promised a referendum vote on the Euro when he took power. He then just opted out of the Euro zone. I'll admit to finding that irritating.
Then it came to 2004/5 and he promised a referendum on the treaty, then he opted out without consultation. I wasn't bothered, other countries consulted and the result wasn't any different.
Whenever Blair was faced with a decision about the level of EU integration he promised to consult, didn't and took the euro-sceptic option.
He properly pissed off the rest of Europe with the Invasion of Irak.
He now says he'd like another referendum (not really credible given his own record on delivering on referendum promises)
And waffles on and on and on when he could just hammer the simple point:
"Stop Brixit now. Withdraw Art.50 now. Don't let me be the one to say 'told you so'".
Bread and Circuses*
* Bread cannot be guaranteed. Maybe cake?
I'm beginning to worry that the politicians have never actually considered looking for a real solution to the Irish border problem [sensible in a way, as there isn't one] but are only looking for a form of words that they can use to claim there is a solution. So we then leave on May's deal, plus a vapourware addition, and after we've left we stay in the customs union until the UK falls apart, the EU falls apart, the world falls apart or we rejoin the EU on much worse terms.
Apologies if that's been obvious to some of you for ages.
I think leaving the EU will be very damaging, but leaving and remaining in the customs union is even worse. There's a huge amount more to being in the EU than trade agreements for goods, and we're in danger of giving all that up for no benefit.
I wish Blair would STFU!!!
Every time he opens his gob, the leave vote increases
Anyway... Ireland. Everyone knows that the only solution is remaining in the customs union. Everything else is unicorns and magic fairies. May knows this as much as anyone. But she can't/won't vocalise this as the DUP/ERG Axis of Backward immediately goes into meltdown
However, in her endless cowardice, indulgence of these nutters, and total spineless failure to confront them she's happy to deliver economic armageddon instead
Hurray for party politics!!!
May floats the prospect of the UK and Ireland staging a joint World Cup bid for 2030, provided the two respective football associations approve the idea.
How many respective football associations???? Did may actually say two?
anyway kudos to the belfast telegraph for accusing her of "shafting NI".
This is the nearest entrance to the NEC from our hotel.
This is normally full of people selling stuff.
This is is what brexit looks like.
Joint football WC 2030? Count me in!!
The marketing folk have already knocked up an image of what Wembley will look like in post Brexit 2030, as Manchester Engineers go for their 8th consecutive cup win under the management of Lieutenant-Colonel Mourinho (who needless to say is wearing a uniform he designed himself)
May floats the prospect of the UK and Ireland staging a joint World Cup bid for 2030, provided the two respective football associations approve the idea.
We've already got a slogan for that:
'We send £350m a week to the EU. Why not use that to bribe FIFA delegates?'
Mourinho? That must have been taxing for him...
I’m beginning to worry that the politicians have never actually considered looking for a real solution to the Irish border problem
Only beginning to worry? It's been obvious from day 1 that there is no real solution that is compatible with leave on the harder leave side.
but are only looking for a form of words that they can use to claim there is a solution.
Basically Brexit summed up, no detail, no commitments, no plans just wafty statements about how it will be awesome. If anyone told wrote down the likely outcomes of what is being proposed nobody would sign up to it.
Every time he opens his gob, the leave vote increases
In your mind or in reality?
I think leaving the EU will be very damaging, but leaving and remaining in the customs union is even worse. There’s a huge amount more to being in the EU than trade agreements for goods, and we’re in danger of giving all that up for no benefit.
true, you need to be in the SM as well to get all the benefits
leaving the CU is madness tho, FTAs can bring selective benefits to specific areas of trade, but NTBs are apparently the real winner
even more so when you have someone like DFDS Liam Fox trying to get new ones.
Customs union is the minimum to stop Brexit being a disaster - not least because of the Irish Border issue. It's also the minimum play that EU will re-open May's deal for.
May's problem on this is a combination of the Tory lunatic fringe hating any sensible compromise with EU and that CU is the option that Labour are pursuing.
Binners, I'm becoming increasingly bored with you posting pretty much the same post three times per page but credit where it's due "Axis of Backward" is glorious.
Blair's article was full of fluff but I rather liked this summary:
If we stay in the single market and customs union, then the huge interconnection of commercial arrangements that have grown up around 45 years of European membership will remain; but under the European rules.
If by contrast we pull out of them, then the economic disruption as business adjusts to losing the privileged access to a market whose rules govern 60% of our trade, will be large.
Nail, head. We either become rule-takers (so much for 'taking back control' hey) or we set fire to the country.
STOP THE PRESSES! THEY'VE FOUND A SOLUTION, IT'S ALL GOING TO BE OK!
Erm, oh.
Nail, head. We either become rule-takers (so much for ‘taking back control’ hey) or we set fire to the country.
Or we put our hands up and say “Sorry, we know we’ve been stupid, let’s just forget about the whole thing, yeah?”
I’m just so sick of this whole waste of time now. I’ve got ‘grown’ ‘men’ in my office who say “This is why we need Brexit”, then go on to list how they’d like all the homeless people arrested to get them off the street and they’d also like the police to be able to torture ‘confessions’ out of suspects.
The country is largely populated by imbeciles, sorry to say.
They’ll be the first to go crying to teacher when it all goes wrong, which is fine, but I resent being taken down too.
Ask Trump to get involved? Brilliant!
Like we haven't made Brexit a big enough cluster---- on our own without getting Agent Tango involved.
Why don't we just go directly to Putin and ask him what to do?
I'd trust Putin before the Tories and trump
I’ve got ‘grown’ ‘men’ in my office who say “This is why we need Brexit”, then go on to list how they’d like all the homeless people arrested to get them off the street and they’d also like the police to be able to torture ‘confessions’ out of suspects.
Because obviously brexit will fix our homelessness issues, it's totally because we're an EU member.
This is where we've come to. Anything and everything is now the EU's fault (and arguably was before the referendum even). These people don't really want to leave the EU, they just want something - anything - to change, and now they've got a convenient scapegoat.
They’ll be the first to go crying to teacher when it all goes wrong, which is fine, but I resent being taken down too.
If it's any consolation, at least they'll blame you for it when they do.
Your Blair quote is accurate but fails to go far enough, Cougar. He fails to state that the only way to remain a part of the single market is to withdraw Art. 50 and remain.
Throughout the article he fails to state what would be needed to avoid the damge, and in each case the only solution is remain. He fails on a basic level because it isn't clear that the only remedy to the issues he raises is remain, no compromise, no nuances, no weighing the benefits and consequences of other options, remain is the only solution, any type of Brexit is nuances of shit.
Agreed.
Graun headline:
May to meet Juncker on Thursday to seek Brexit concessions
What exactly is she offering in that photo in return? Makes my blood run cold just imagining it. Possibly a replacement mental image for Ben Eltons one about Margaret Thatcher in the shower. Shudder. I see she already has a pearl necklace though......
Because obviously brexit will fix our homelessness issues, it’s totally because we’re an EU member.
You overestimate these people. They don’t want the homelessness issue sorted, they just find its outward manifestation offensive, so the solution is to criminalise the homeless and put them in prison. They are a wunch of bankers. They think that withdrawing from the E.U. will allow us to ‘take control’ and enact such policies.
They are the same nobheads who butt into any conversation about poverty and go on about how they know a bloke who drives his BMW into Leicester city centre, park up, spend the day begging / selling the Big Issue then go home to their four bed detached. I note that they do not like being questioned on whether the supposed criminal mastermind is actually selling the Big Issue or begging. Specifics are not important, apparently, and selling the Big Issue and begging are one and the same anyway.
I try to sit back and not be drawn on this stuff, placing my faith in karma instead.
They also think Trump is a good thing. These are outwardly quite able people in their field (although their main skill seems to be avoiding any real work by being jobsworths and playing people off against each other).
I try not to engage for any reason.
One of my colleagues revealed today that his biggest fear, and why he voted leave, is that he will be stabbed at a bus stop by some men talking in a foreign language. I just didn't know what to say.
. I just didn’t know what to say.
Doesn't really matter just keep talking in foreign languages behind him
I just didn’t know what to say.
Pick up a knife and start talking French?
Unfortunately I'm a talk louder and slower tourist, not an immersive tourist.
Google translate will do all the hard work for you
One of my colleagues revealed today that his biggest fear, and why he voted leave, is that he will be stabbed at a bus stop by some men talking in a foreign language. I just didn’t know what to say.
I'd have gone with "Oui, bien sur."
He's quite right though. When I'm stabbed at a bus stop I want it to be by an honest-to-goodness English speaker. It's only proper.
Chris Grayling has done it again
I think he might actually be the nation's greatest comedy genius
I think he might actually be the nation’s greatest comedy genius
Poor man. As he says if he wasnt such an incompetent idiot prominent brexiteer people wouldnt pick on his mistakes.
In other news. What is it about the brexiteers and their relaxed approach to laws?
The comment from the charity commission is amusing though "IEA risked the public perception that the IEA is politically biased". Now why on earth would people have that perception?
What is it about the brexiteers and their relaxed approach to laws?
Stands to reason really. They're all made by unelected bureaucrats in Germany, remember.
