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keep talking bolloxs if you like but facts is facts
He is only gained a swing marginally larger than Blair who came to power on a wave of change and positivity while he is facing a Tory party who are destroying themselves
if he was a bit more palatable he would be wiping the floor
He is only gained a swing marginally larger than Blair who came to power
You mean after 18 years of tory government? With a completely sleeze ridden bunch of ministers who had run through the complete list of possible scandals available? That was a very different time.
I am a fan of Corbyn and what he has done to get the Labour party back to a Labour party and can also see he is a no win position with Brexit (just as May is) but I would agree on finding a different person to front the party if they want to be further ahead as the media got to him a long time ago and that is all a lot of the voters believe/see.
18 years many scandals (sex, bribery etc.) and lead by the grey man... I am torn but this shower edge it as worse for me.
Blair won as a centralist who could appeal to a greater proportion than kinnock. He sadly failed to deliver on the promise. That’s the trouble with voting for ideals, it takes 10 years to really change anything and people lose faith after 2-3 months...
personally I am leaning to a more Proportional representational system which would force the parties to collaborate rather than moan and fight
personally I am leaning to a more Proportional representational system which would force the parties to collaborate rather than moan and fight
Yep, that is what I would favour. The fact a party can get 40% vote and then be in full power doesn't make sense. Should have a cabinet of say which represents the vote (made up of labour, conservative, lib dem etc,.) who all work together to get more commonly accepted things agreed. Would also then be longer term thinking rather than what they can do to win next time.
The problem is with P.R that UKIP would have more seats.
There again the tories wouldn’t have had to appeal to the gammons and we might not be in the current mess.
Ah Jesus. Corbyn's increase in vote share was the result of post-coalition collapse in Lib Dem support. The Tory vote share also increased. How this failure to dispose of the shitest government ever gets represented as success is frankly staggering.
We really are all ****ed.
I know remainers who vote Tory just to keep Corbyn out.
The Irish Times coverage of Brexit has always been bang on....
Brexit shows idiots and incompetents are in charge in the UK
Corbyn’s increase in vote share was the result of post-coalition collapse in Lib Dem support. The Tory vote share also increased.
So all the former lib dem voters switched to Labour? That's quite an assumption. Who do you think former UKIP voters switched to?
I have absolutely no problem with being a “vassal” state as we clearly don’t have anyone competent enough to run this country
Bang on. Bunch of drivelling incompetent numbskulls, the lot of them.
… and a ‘10% share of the vote’ will not win an election.
Maybe Scotland could take over instead of leaving?
Corbyn’s increase in vote share was the result of post-coalition collapse in Lib Dem support. The Tory vote share also increased.
So all the former lib dem voters switched to Labour? That’s quite an assumption. Who do you think former UKIP voters switched to?
Lab and Tory, both of whose vote shares went up, and both of whom claimed success, though only one formed a government. Lib Dems and UKIP went down.
I wonder if budget forecasts for the next Indyref will include the millions of English and Welsh who'll immediately attempt to move North?
Just reading that Irish Times article...
Could this whole farce lead to famine & martial law?
I came here to post the "British" Airways news. No surprise really. There are huge advantages in being a "British" company, and an "EU" company… but in many industries the time to pick one over the other is rushing up fast… sadly.
Tick. Tock.
Maybe Scotland could take over instead of leaving?
As someone living South of the border, I'd be down with that.
So all the former lib dem voters switched to Labour? That’s quite an assumption. Who do you think former UKIP voters switched to?
All the pols I've seen suggest the Cons benefited far more from UKiPs collapse than Labour did. And Labour benefited far more from the LibDem collapse than Cons did. Just polls though, and even since the last election a lot has changed as regards Brexit (or rather nothing that needed to change or be clarified has) so it's all up in the air.
Perhaps the Scots will be kind enough to have the same approach as the island of Ireland. Anyone born either side of the border can get a Scottish (EU) passport. Now that would be excellent.
Blue passport and a nice long queue for those who want to be/stay non-eu. Freedom of movement etc for the rest.
.Perhaps... (You've not watched Outlaw King have you?)
More clamouring for a "Peoples Vote"
Its difficult to see another way forward, despite May's King Canute impression two things haven't changed. She doesn't have a deal that will get through the Commons and the deadline is still March 29th
So what happen's next? An extension to the March 29th deadline seems inevitable. The EU will nod it through as they don't really want a no deal either. This will enrage enough of the swivelled eyed loons to trigger a vote of no confidence in May.
Then what? It might well get voted down and May will soldier on still without a deal that can get past the Common's (as it never existed) or a new Tory leader, which in reality changes nothing as they can't magic up a deal that will satisfy the Commons (again it doesn't exist) any more than May could. Meanwhile the slightly reset clock carries on ticking.
Putting it back to the people starts to look like the only sensible option, with one huge caveat of course, if they vote Leave again then we're back at square one. Although the reality that Brexit can't actually be delivered seems to have dawned on enough people to make this unlikely.
The Labour party really need to get their finger out, if they actually starting backing a second referendum it might happen
The Irish Times absolutely nails it once again about the sheer staggering level of ignorance shown by the Brexiteers
On my fb a thing popped up saying we survived the threat of nazi invasion and the blitz we can survive a no deal Brexit. Also had a picture of Churchill to which I posted a link to the founders of the European Movement.That shut the ****ers up.
That's a long way from cake , eating it and untold wealth for all.
https://europeanmovement.eu/who-we-are/history/
Spectator & BBC 'Journalist' & good chum of Arron Banks, Andrew Neil remains a class act
he has deleted the tweet, but too cowardly to issue an apology
I still think there are enough of the general public to vote in a no deal if it goes to a people's vote.
We've already seen that a sizeable chunk of them can be successfully mislead, whats to say it wont happen again?
Agree with that, we already know there are millions of people who are easily lead and/or don't give a **** how much harm they cause, why should we ask them what to do?
Did someone mention Corbyn...
😕
Putting it back to the people starts to look like the only sensible option, with one huge caveat of course, if they vote Leave again then we’re back at square one.
Not necessarily, because you make the vote specific. a) Leave without a deal b) Take whatever deal May offers, c) Remain, d) keep trying ?
The problem would be if the deal in b) creates a border in Ireland or the Irish sea, but the public vote for it anyway because they don't give a crap or don't know how important it is. Then we'll be in trouble.
Remain would win by a landslide in any referendum with multiple choices.
Remain would win by a landslide in any referendum with multiple choices.
I'm really not convinced another vote is any kind of solution, but couldn't they could avoid any issues with vote splitting by using two questions?
The first could be a simple yes or no on whether we still want to leave or not and a second as a multiple choice between the various deals on the table.
I wouldn't trust the population to vote again - look what happened last time...
Thatcher wouldn’t have referendums on issues like the eu because she knew the electorate wouldn’t understand the incredibly arcane complexities.
Even Jamba knew that a second referendum would be for remain. It's like I've said before, the first referendum was for your own personal dream brexit, which of course every brexiteer interprets as a vote for their personal dream brexit. Whereas the second referendum would be for one specific, real, massively disappointing brexit.
It'll still be possible for individual lies to walk the earth, like £350m for the NHS or whatever, but it'll no longer be possible for them all to peacefully coexist under a simple Leave vote. Leave was only ever a winning proposition when it could be a vote for multiple, incompatible and sometimes impossible Leaves
So we have a deal in draft, probably in pencil technically just about there on the divorce bill if this is to be believed. She just needs to sell it to the cabinet. Should be easy, they just keep wheeling tories who won't vote for any of it.
the nightmare is just beginning
She presents the 'deal' to parliament
Parliament vote it out.
The pound tanks, stock markets tank, businesses execute on the cost saving and relocation measures that as sensible organisations they've been working on just in case.
They 'renegotiate' and basically get the same offer but with minor concessions of no real importance.
Petrified by what happened last time / the prospect of falling out of power the bleating tories fall into line
We get brexit but the country's already blown one foot off before we began.....
**
edit - I'm totally pro-europe but with that as a prospect (presented by I think Pienaar on PM earlier) I'm half inclined that we should vote it through; rip the plaster off in one go - with the bonus that those *s Johnson and Rees-Mogg will be truly *ed off about it.
Seems like a win win for remain.
The deal contains a UK wide backstop with a review mechanism (whatever that means). So BINO.
Labour will apparently vote down anything that doesn't offer all the benefits of SM and CU.
DUP will vote down anything that treats NI different from the UK which would topple the government and Labour get in.. The tories would never do that, if you can rely on the tories for anything it's thier desperate cling to power.
If the deal doesn't make it through parliament it's a no deal by default which only a very small minority of MPs want, so we'd be looking at an extension of a50, or maybe a unilateral retraction pending the outcome of the Scottish ECJ case.
Check, and mate.
Boris Johnson what he assumes is the on the proposed deal reached,
"For the first time in a thousand years, this place, this parliament, will not have a say over the laws that govern this country. It is a quite incredible state of affairs."
By that rationale then in all of the 1000 years up to now, including our time in the EU, then we have had a say in the laws that govern our country. Why was he never been saying this up to the Brexit vote?
That's boris all over. He's both made his point and defeated it all in one sentence..
Points for efficiency I suppose..
Boris knows his history better than that I'm sure...
Of course he does ... He's just telling the idiots what they want to hear...compleatly abhorrent individual..
Shame we haven’t got Corbyn in frankly. A real brexit guy who the leave voters can actually get behind especially those of us traditional labour in the north. Given a proper mandate he could finally show his true colours and “rip the plaster off” as mentioned above - full English brexit with extra beans.
^I'm assuming that's sarcasm, hahaha!
Certainly not. Cobyns Red (But not white and blue) Brexit will usher in the glorious socialist revolution which will finally free the workers from their evil capitalist EU oppressors
Keep up comrade
Off on a slight tangent, I was chatting to a northern rail train guard on a rammed train this morning..
The new trains are still in Spain. They are built and ready to go.
Hopefully they won't be delayed crossing the borders.
He reckoned at least 12 months. And that's pre brexit timetables.
FmL
I think you’ve probably already seen this countries Brexit future with Northern Rail
Apparently they have one of those in the York railway museum.