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For months I've been writing to my mp moaning about the 30% chocolate tax that will be imposed on us by Geneva. I've gone full gammon saying that the doors of the EU prison have been sprung open only to be shackled to the despotic WTO.
Wanting to know why unelected foreign bureaucrats can determine what price I have to charge for my goods.
I've used the terms taking back control. , treason and surrender liberally.My last letter ended with me saying that we were lied to and I am now a reluctant remainer as I would be better off in the EU.
I feel this approach would have more effect that me just saying that I want to stay.
This week I've called UKIP and mentioned all the above. They seemed genuinely surprised about the tax and as they took me for a full on gammon said they would look into it and get back to me.
Subvert from within.
Chocolate is the least of your worries.
The UK has only about 3 days worth of raw materials to make bog roll. The materials come from Europe, Scandinavia on a JIT supply chain.
If we have a hard brexit we literally won't be capable of wiping our own arses.
though we should be ok for weetabix I have it on good authority that they are stockpiling their European supplies.
Well just back from another simple and seamless work trip to the EU, this time Cork, it's worth a look over to see how much investment is going on and how busy it is. Ads at the airport to try and temp Irish construction workers back over
The UK was the default location of the English speaking world to have an EU base due to the language and cultural similarities. Ireland is going to get those now, being in the EU is worth a lot to those companies.
Interesting piece in the Grauniad yesterday which helped me get a bit more of a handle on our leading brexiteer, the Mogg Dogg
Selfish he is. Stupid he ain't
I mean, being brought up ‘traditionally’ my first instinct with people like MPs, judges, doctors and the like is that they are ‘proper grown ups’ and must be there entirely by merit and must be above average intelligence. More and more I am being forced to question this.
Just because someone is above average intelligence does not mean they give a shit about others. Lots of intelligent tories, they just have a different way of thinking about how society should be.
Binners - I ask yo again what would you have Corbyn do?
Remember his party is badly split and characters like Burnham who IIRC you would have had as leader stated quite clearly " the will of the people must be respected" Come out for remain he immediately gets the press in full on attack mode, ditto for a second referendum and either of those positions splits the party wide open.
What should Corbyn do? Back a call for a referendum, or step aside. He isn't backing Brexit because he is scared of the press. He isn't backing Brexit because a significant minority of Labour voters want him to. He is backing it because he wants it. Would A50 have been triggered without a plan, without his fervent backing? Why is he still saying Brexit is unstoppable? What else is he saying is "done" and he won't oppose? What is his voting record as regards our place in Europe?
I would have Corbyn back a second referendum. Mr '7.5/10' can use his apparently considerable orator powers to help bring round any wavering voters.
Surely all the Corbyn acolytes on here have faith in his abilities to at least do that for the good of the country?
Or step aside. He can then spend the next 20 years on the back benches voting against anything he wants to and presumably be a much happier soul.
For the record I have never voted for any party other than Labour. I live in the north and work for a successful manufacturing company (although that may all be bolloxed because of the failure of people like Corbyn). I expect tories to be in for themselves - I totally get it. I don't expect the Opposition party 'leader' to stand idly by while the country goes to hell. I'm still wondering which rat hole he disappeared down during the march against Brexit.
Uncle Jezza - He’s a coward and a fraud who wants Brexit, the harder the better (oo-we missus!) as much, if not more than IDS and Moggy, but won’t actually come out and say so because he’s rather fond of of the adulation and cult of celebrity he’s afforded by his delusional supporters. How you/they’re squaring that particular circle is totally beyond me. It’s a total paradox! And a bloody obvious one at that
its worth reading Stuart Maconies Long March From Jarrow. It’s an incisive and brilliantly passionately researched study of the history of the working class history, and the Labour Party, viewed through the context of Brexit and the rise of ego-fuelled narcisstic populists like Trump, Farage And Corbyn (just because his politics are different doesn’t mean he is)
its a really good read. His verdict on Corbyn is thoughtful, considered and absolutely damning!
He’s weak, totally disengaged on the real issues, and his Labour Party faux-revolutionary cabal is as useless in representing the interests of the working class as the party of 1936 who watched the Jarrow Crusade with the same metropolitan contempt
Brexit will be an absolute disaster for the working classes he claims to represent, and an absolute gift to the corporatist interests of the hard right.
i expect the leader of the Labour Party to be bright enough to know that and act accodingly
Fat chance of that!
"Brexit will be an absolute disaster for the working classes he claims to represent, and an absolute gift to the corporatist interests of the hard right."
Which is exactly what Mogg senior wrote 20 years ago in the book mentioned in the guardian link above, though obviously he was speaking as a rampant right wing fascist so it was all good for him and the little Moggs
I ask yo again what would you have Corbyn do?
Fek off and die
No offense.
Corbyn is in just as much as a 'check mate' as the Conservatives are.
They are all in 'check mate' because they are putting party politics ahead of actually doing something.
Let's call the whole thing off?
Let’s face the music and dance?
Corbyn is in just as much as a ‘check mate’ as the Conservatives are.
Well the stats were in, all Labour seats support a second referendum
Well the stats were in, all Labour seats support a second referendum
Really. I'm in a 68% Brexit John Mann stronghold!
What have I missed?
Brexit will be an absolute disaster for the working classes he claims to represent, and an absolute gift to the corporatist interests of the hard right
Lots of them voted for it.
You can't blame him for that.
Supporting Brexit is one thing, supporting this farce that doesn't deliver is another
Binners – I ask yo again what would you have Corbyn do?
I'd have him do what is right for the country. Old-fashioned idea I know.
I just say again the hysteria over Brexit compared to the lack of noise over austerity I find disconcerting.
Austerity has been a very immediate and damaging political choice to swathes of our country but doesn't seem to come with the same resentment as Brexit on here.
I find that tricky to understand.
Supporting Brexit is one thing, supporting this farce that doesn’t deliver is another
In that guardian article they don't link to the poll and I can't find it on you gov.
Any ideas?
I assume your using the term Hysteria to make it sound like people are exaggerating the problems.
This will be the single most destructive thing that has happened to the UK in a very long time, the impact will make austerity look like a minor cold. The impact already has taken millions and probably billions out of the UK economy, I think at the last point it was more than contributions to the EU in a year.
It's going to impact people for a lifetime, it's removing rights that we have acquired over many years and the architects of the plan seem to have no idea, direction or cohesion at all. It's being played out as a petty shitshow of tory self destruction.
The use of the words mandate and clear will of the people by liars, cheats and some close to criminal charges over the campaign make the whole thing worse. There is no clear mandate for anything and trying to force a deal through that will be bad for everyone against the clear will of the majority of the UK.
The reason this thread keep going is the sheer ineptitude of the UK government and it's deluded fans who seem to get worse every week.
YouGov used a multi-level regression and post-stratification (MRP) technique, polling 26,000 people to build up a statistical model of key demographics, including age, gender, education, race and social class. The theory is that it becomes possible to produce a model for every constituency in the country
That sounds tenuous.
This will be the single most destructive thing that has happened to the UK in a very long time, the impact will make austerity look like a minor cold.
Whilst I agree with your sentiment, unlike the affects of austerity you can't say this with any level of confidence as a) it hasn't happened yet and b) you can't measure it currently.
Really rone?
The findings, which are expected to have a significant impact on the parliamentary battle over Brexit in the coming months, is based on the same modelling methodology that confounded conventional wisdom and correctly predicted Labour’s surprise success in last year’s election.
You can just say you don't want to believe it 😉
Whilst I agree with your sentiment, unlike the affects of austerity you can’t say this with any level of confidence as a) it hasn’t happened yet and b) you can’t measure it currently.
Ah OK, you know what nobody has a ****ing plan, no single member of the team negotiating this seems to have a ****ing clue.
The options that have been put forward all show massive pain for the UK
The impact to the economy so far has been measured and reported widely. The simple maths show a massive amount of cash needs to be spent which far outweighs any savings by leaving and so far nobody has come up with any way the UK economy will grow in the post Brexit world.
If you want to counter the projections lets see some evidence of how it will be OK not just ignoring all the current ones.
I assume your using the term Hysteria to make it sound like people are exaggerating the problems
Well yeah having run my own small business on fumes through several recessions and watched my locality decay - I can speak pretty strongly against neo-libralism in general.
What am I getting at is that until the effects are measured and we're well out of it (whatever form that takes)- how do you know?
The impact to the economy so far has been measured and reported widely. The simple maths show a massive amount of cash needs to be spent which far outweighs any savings by leaving and so far nobody has come up with any way the UK economy will grow in the post Brexit world.
I would like to level that if we implemented modern monetary theory to solve some of our spending problems we would be able to sleep at night.
How do you extrapolate the effects of something that hasn't happened yet versus the general demise of the economy under Tory rule?
People were offered simple answers to complex problems. None of which were the fault of the people being blamed - the EU.
the trouble now is that the enormous whoppers peddled during the campaign are now coming home to roost. Far from supplying answers to the real problem- austerity driven by far right dogma - leaving the EU will turbo-charge those problems... poverty, inequality and division are about to sour, all while Boris, Rees Mogg and their chums make their usual killing out of it.
Whats most depressing is that the leader of the Labour Party is either too terminally dim, or just plain disinterested to do anything to oppose it.
This provides the right with what they’ve always wanted... the chance to dismantle the post-war settlement and pretty much all that is progressive in our society. Something they will gleefully do.
So what happens when everyone realises the true scale of this fraud?
Next March is when the real shitsorm starts
This farce is just a preamble
https://www.theweek.co.uk/93785/how-much-money-has-brexit-cost-the-uk
23rd May 2018 40bn Total
https://www.cer.eu/insights/whats-cost-brexit-so-far
23rd June 2018 23Bn/Year
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/29/britain-bill-brexit-hits-500-million-pounds-a-week
29th September 26bn/year
That is what has been measured, where are your numbers?
What am I getting at is that until the effects are measured and we’re well out of it (whatever form that takes)- how do you know?
So you reckon it's worth a punt?
But the right have been dismantling anything half-decent long term for generations. Think way back to the utilities sell off. That sort of thing has never been an EU issue as I understand it.
We were already going in the wrong direction before 2016.
True but that doesn't change the numbers or the direction being pushed.It's just really a way of confusing the issue there. Do the numbers so far lie or misrepresent things as they are.
Based on the deals looking likely what are the positives?
Do you have any numbers to counter the current forecasts?
So you reckon it’s worth a punt?
I think there are stronger idealogical forces at play that don't meet the same resistance.
For instance you can't blame the recent stabbings on the EU turmoil but you could make a case for austerity and lack of policing , education and general state of the economy.
Rone thinks that people arguing against Brexit don't care about the effects of austerity. He's not alone. Many voted Brexit because Osbourne and Cameron said they shouldn't. Austerity and membership of the EU have successfully been conflated in people's minds… and I'd argue the disengenius leader of the Labour Party has had a hand in this. Lots of my Labour supporting friends have fallen for the "forget about Brexit, let's stand against Austerity instead" line of bullshit that has come straight out if the current Labour leadership team.
Look at who are the biggest fans of small state, low tax, damn the poor economics? How many of them will be happy with Brexit at any cost? Why is that?
Do you have any numbers to counter the current forecasts?
Which forecasts are you looking at?
Absolutely Rone! But they’ve been constrained by EU regulation. Just imagine what this shower of shits are planning to do once they’re freed from that?
Brexit at any cost indeed. They know what an opportunity this presents them with, and they’re rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect! They can turn the clock back 80 years. No welfare state. No NHS
All while the Corbyn Labour Party watches on impotent and disengaged, more worried about what’s going on in Venezuela than Stoke, apparently unaware its about to have every single one of its achievements torched before its very eyes.
And it is actively enabling that?!
Tell you what why don't you pick the most positive one you can find. Unless you have had your head in the sand it's been hard to miss.
Rone thinks that people arguing against Brexit don’t care about the effects of austerity
That would be one way of putting it.
But I would say purely from a media point of view it's a never ending debate which will only be realised when it's done whereas I feel the lack of concern over general Tory policy has become acceptable.
You guys may be one step ahead of me, and that's fine.
Tell you what why don’t you pick the most positive one you can find. Unless you have had your head in the sand it’s been hard to miss.
No need to be disengenous. I would say until things are finalised I don't know.
I'm not a Brexitter.
Until you know exactly what illness you've got, you can't treat it.
But I would say purely from a media point of view it’s a never ending debate which will only be realised when it’s done
Nope that assumes that people and public opinion make no difference in these things. There is a lot to fight for and what you are seeing is people fighting for it. This is not something you can sort out by voting them out at the election it will take something bigger than that.
If you want to sit back and let all those clever people in government sort it out for you then that is up to you. Many others don't want to do that.
No need to be disengenous. I would say until things are finalised I don’t know.
TBH all you have done so far is dispute every stat or projection but can't say why apart from "It's the future we can't predict that" people do all the time, it's why I suggested you bring some numbers to the table. We are yet to find anyone credible who has a positive outlook for brexit. It's doesn't take a genius to see all the negatives that are coming.
Binners 0- I still do not know what you want corbyn toi do.
I am disappointed in him but simply do not see what you do
so please should he:
come out for a second vote and leave himself open to attack from the press? ( I think he should)
Accept the "will of the people" which I remind you again Burnham your man for the leadership did and still does IIRC
Jesus Christ TJ! Stop fighting last years battles! Or last decades!
Youre disappointed in him? Bless.
That’s the bloody problem with you Momentum/Corbynistas lot! Or one of the many! You can’t see what’s going on in front of your bloody eyes. You’re too busy banging on about Burnham/Blairites or whatever in your paranoid delusional bunkers! The People’s Front of Judea. What have the Romans ever done for us?
This is right wing coup FFS!!!! One Corbyn is acquiescing in!
He needs to grow a pair, * the press, who all hate him anyway, and say that this is a disaster that must be stopped
Not that he will, of course, because he’s always wanted this. Why? Because he’s totally *ing clueless, that’s why?
He thinks he’s going to establish a socialist Utopia, the deluded half wit. What he’s actually helping establish is a neoliberal wet dream! A corporatist tax haven, sweatshop where workers rights will be torn up in front of them!!
The left need to bloody wake up!! And fast!
I’m not going to hold my breath!