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It's not pointless.…
…nope, you've got me, it is pointless.
Oh no, hang on, it'a been a great opportunity for lots of people to make a political point about sovereignty, or looking after our own, or other nonsense. Nothing cited as a reason for doing this can't be acted on by our government (given enough time/money/drive) from inside the EU.
• Want better controls on who gets to live and work here? Then waste money monitoring who enters and leaves… where they live… what they earn… all a waste of time, but being in the EU or not, that's what you have to misdirect your efforts into.
• Want a worthwhile trade deal with a country we don't currently have one with? Work with the EU to get one… that way we have the collective bargaining position to get one. No block has a better record on reducing trade barriers with other trading blocks/countries.
You know how, every now and then, someone posts on here to say "f*** it, if the idiots want it bad enough, let's turn the country to sh!t, I've had enough!"? I'm almost there.
Lucas did a good job on C4.
It helped that both Conservative and Labour representatives admitted that their plans for Brexit would damage our economy, and proposed no real benefit beyond "the decision was made" back in 2016, and that by leaving we would comply with that decision.
Most people I know who voted Remain happen to be Scottish
I would like to remind you of where you live...!
I'm just depressed by it now.
Lord Sugar, I agree with. Those who misled us, deliberately, funded by dodgy sources, should be prosecuted somehow. Class action against Garage, Johnson and Gove anyone?
It's ok to be a dumb voter.. People make mistakes and that's fine. That's why referendums are advisory.
That's why MPs are supposed to act for the good of the country rather than hiding under an umbrella.
Those in power who took the referendum result literally on such an insignificant margin because it suited an agenda are those who should be punished most..
I would like to remind you of where you live…!
That's my point Matt. We all live in a bubble that makes it difficult for us generalise based on what we see immediately around us. But, you know, if everyone else is playing the blame game, I might as well join in
We all live in a bubble that makes it difficult for us generalise based on what we see immediately around us.
We don't really, all it takes is a little thought, critical thinking and logic.
That’s my point Matt. We all live in a bubble that makes it difficult for us generalise based on what we see immediately around us.
So true. Even when we think we're not. 😉
all it takes is a little thought, critical thinking and logic.
that's why people read the Dail Mail/Express/Sun etc, takes the effort out of those sorts of thing
Have a look at the Survation data breakdown, if you think that the oldest vs youngest concept as regards Brexit and related issues is just our conceptions based on living in bubbles.
And politicans are following the oldest on this. I still blame politicans for not properly considering the country as a whole.
Have a look at the survation data breakdown, if you think that the oldest vs youngest concept as regards Brexit and related issues is just our conceptions based on living in bubbles.
Or have a look at the regional voting and see if you think the English and Welsh are to blame.
Move on from 2016. Many areas of England and Wales are moving towards the sensible views on Brexit, and even more so on immigration, held in Scotland and NI. Have a look at the Survation data.
Where as the oldest/youngest divide is growing.
It's down to politicans to listen more widely, and act for the whole country, not just older voters.
🤣🤣🤣
It's also time for the politicians to start thinking abut the whole United Kingdom, not just the south east (or Greater London), but that's not going so well right now. Sadly, that's where the wealth appears to be and will be where they focus.
I don't know anyone here in Spain who voted leave. None of my friends in Germany did either. I'm going to blame the British for this mess.
All my dad's I know voted to leave, I blaim my dad
not just the south east (or Greater London
By going ahead with Brexit they are. Certainly ignoring London and SE was very close. As far as I can tell all the wealthy parts of the SE voted remain. So clearly the wealthy (outside of the brexit elite) arent winning in this case.
Okay, I'll dive into the Survation data so that you don't have to…
18-24 : 77% remain
25-34 : 67% remain
35-44 : 60% remain
45-53 : 50:50
55-64 : 53% leave
65-74 : 59% leave
75+ : 65% leave
(20th October - 2nd November 2018 - table 5)
Regional breakdown shows swing from Leave to Remain strongest in Wales, North of England, and South West. Sciotland and London still have strongest Remain support though… but England and Wales both Remain now.
All that abuse slung at Carole Cadwalladr by the likes of Banks, Guido, Wigmore etc
and she keeps being proved right
Banks still lying about it all. And being applauded for it.
I wonder what Nick Clegg's roll will be now that this makes calls for more info from Facebook a very live issue again…?
Sounds like a well run company...
Will this information make labour realise that there are votes to be had by being pro remain?
Doubt it. They think we'll be "out" of the EU before any new nationwide vote takes place… and then what option do voters really have…?
It swings to leave at an earlier age than most people seem to think.
Also worth checking the stats re. educational level, income and employment status.
The pointlessness of this is glorious
It is far from pointless if you stand to gain personally when public services are further starved of cash and have to wave the white flag and be 'outsourced'.......
Or if you stand to gain personally when your workforce can have their terms and conditions ripped up in their faces and you can announce that it is this or nothing.
All my dad’s I know voted to leave, I blame my dad
My sister and BIL voted leave, as frustrated copper and nurse. Guess which home secretary he was p*ss*d at is now PM? BIL and sister also chose to leave and now live and work abroad, having dumped us in it..
All that abuse slung at Carole Cadwalladr by the likes of Banks, Guido, Wigmore etc
and she keeps being proved right
Yep - and she'll be proved right again when the fines levied are totally derisory and can thus be thought of as 'operating expenses' for the greatest heist in British history.
All that abuse slung at Carole Cadwalladr by the likes of Banks, Guido, Wigmore etc
and she keeps being proved right
Information Commissioner finds no evidence of:
Cambridge Analytica ("CA") being involved with Leave.EU other than a preliminary exercise.
Any connection between the work AIQ did for Vote Leave and CA
Any misuse of data by Vote Leave
So little evidence for her conspiracy theory.
It swings to leave at an earlier age than most people seem to think.
Around about 60? Slightly under that? As low as 50? Whippersnappers…
Information Commissioner finds no evidence of:
Your choice of key points is rather fascinating.
Cambridge Analytica (“CA”) being involved with Leave.EU other than a preliminary exercise.
They did however find a relationship between AIQ and Vote Leave and a couple of others. Since the links between AIQ and CA are, to put it mildly, confusing it isnt unreasonable for a journalist to use CA when it was actually AIQ.
There is also an outstanding case around CA and UKIP with possible Leave.EU involvement. This wasnt included in this report since UKIP are appealing.
Any connection between the work AIQ did for Vote Leave and CA
Well aside from the fact they found a rather complex relationship between the two organisations. That is with them being able to use a lot more aggressive tactics than a journalist. Even then its worth noting CA didnt cooperate and are under crimimal investigation due to this.
Any misuse of data by Vote Leave
How convenient. You skip the fact they found clear misuse of data by Leave.EU
So little evidence for her conspiracy theory.
Really? Lets recap the actual facts rather than your rather convenient cherry picking:
CA are under criminal investigation due to miuse of data. They would be facing fines on top as well if they hadnt gone into insolvency.
Facebook got hit with a fine.
Leave.EU and Eldon insurance misused data and are being fined for it.
So whilst she didnt get all the details right she got the broad gist correct.
Amusing that you are able to pick out such narrow points Mefty when banks & co have repeatedly changed their stories as new revelations have been revealed.
Meuller looking at Banks's comms with Russian ambassador now too (remember when he said it was just a boozy lunch!)
VL & Leave.eu happily coordinated messages together during ref.... see Johnson & Gove lies about Turkey blowing the dog whistle Farages immigrants poster handed them.
VL already been fined for their payments to AIQ & canadian investigation into AIQ still ongoing?
And AIQ blacklisted from handling personal data by ICO (tho they are now working for Bannon on republican projects in the USA)
Naivety or just straight up denial to try & say that cadwalladr hasn't been vindicated, despite some very unpleasant & persistent personal abuse by those lovely people
It swings to leave at an earlier age than most people seem to think.
Probably around the same age that people swing from left to right. As people age and go from being part of a society at the lower end to owning their house, protecting their money they care more about themselves and less about others so switch from labour to conservative and would also favour brexit
I missed this poll…
"Voters in every seat held by a Labour MP support the idea of a so-called 'people's vote' on the outcome of the Brexit negotiations, according to a large-scale new poll released on Friday."
The so-called 'will of the people' is shifting.
Still, most of the noise from those close to those leading the Labour Party as regards Brexit since that poll has been about how Banks and his dubious doings should be ignored, as it made no difference to the result in 2016. The win in 2016 is all that matters to Labour's eurosceptic Leaders. Saddening to see what those around them are prepared to do to support them.
Labour MPs need to have a serious think…
Now, which announcements of factory closures should we ignore/discus next…?
Probably around the same age that people swing from left to right.
Pretty much everyone I know has become more left as they get older, as the unfairness of the right's position becomes ever more obvious.
The only exceptions to this are people who started out working class and poor, and are now wealthy. They seem particularly keen to pull the ladder up behind them. Like all the immigrants who voted for brexit to stop immigration.
Pretty much everyone I know has become more left as they get older, as the unfairness of the right’s position becomes ever more obvious.
Some of that is historic and some will be a bubble thing,a s we get older we have selected out social groups and interaction. My parents have certainly fallen into the Daily Fail propaganda camp over the last few years
Pretty much everyone I know has become more left as they get older
Same here, though I suspect that, like which newspaper your read, it has a lot to do with the company you keep.
Cambridge Analytica (“CA”) being involved with <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">Leave.EU</span> other than a preliminary exercise.
Oops looks like mefty missed this one too
https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1059917471417843718?s=19
Same here, though I suspect that, like which newspaper your read, it has a lot to do with the company you keep.
Yes, it would be down to that. The data doesn't lie, the shift to conservative happens at around 45-50 years old. The good news is that the age is getting a bit older before people are pulling up the draw bridge as it was around 40 years old a while ago.
I am less left wing than I was when I was 16 but only because at sixteen I was a little bit idealistic!
I veered wildly between Marxist and fascist through puberty and adolescence before alighting on my current position of liberal snowflake which I have held for many years now.
So today we have David "drunken dimwit" Davies saying that mps should vote down the deal so as to force the EU it offering a better one and Domenic "know nothing" Raab saying that he didn't realise how important Dover / Calais is
Jeepers. Its really unbelievable how dim this lot are
Interesting today in focus podcast from the guardian with Yanis varoufakis , illustrating why any negotiations with the eu were never going to work from the start and the subterfuge that Go’s on to undermine.
David “drunken dimwit” Davies
Class act. I wonder, did you fling the same insults at Charles Kennedy? Talk about playing the man and not the ball.
Any "insult" put David davis' way is entirely justified. The man is a stupid ****ing ****.
Nope - Kennady was not a dimwit. He was also an alcoholic. Nor did he hold high offices of state while being patently unfit to do so Davies is just a drunken oaf.
given he turned up drunk for "negotiations" and press conferences and he admitted he didn't need to know anything I think its quite fair enough to call him a drunken dimwit. Its what he is. Not a man deserving of any sympathy
Interesting today in focus podcast from the guardian with Yanis varoufakis , illustrating why any negotiations with the eu were never going to work from the start and the subterfuge that Go’s on to undermine.
Good call that.
Here's the link
https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2018/nov/08/taking-on-the-eu-podcast