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I was just sent this piece about Clapton and racism, in which he is quoted as saying some nightmarishly horrible things. The thing is, I find it hard to believe you could be as extreme as that, and people not remember - especially in light of the debates we have witnessed in the last 5 or so years.
So, do any of you have any knowledge of Clapton being a hideous person? Or any memory of these words being said? Or anything else to suggest he is as bad as all that?
Is this ‘article’ accurate?
& in other shocking news. It was surprisingly revealed today that His Holiness Pope Francis is actually a Catholic.
and people not remember
Think you're an offcomer iirc but certainly round my neck of the woods it was definitely remembered.
Decent player with the Yardbirds and Cream, but everything else was turgid so no great loss to avoid it.
See also: Morrissey
yeah, he did that. the one I remember was something along the lines of "I like black music, just don't like black people"
He's a ****
Best not look at any of the stuff Bowie said either, I'm afraid.
Watch Clapton A life in 12 bars. Not so sure he was racist, he didn’t like most people. A really troubled individual who once he’d left Cream became for me irrelevant. Peter Green was the boy.
It's not necessarily an excuse but he was a heroin addict at the time IIRC.
He's 'done a lot of work for chariddy' setting up stuff for disadvantaged people in the Caribbean I believe.
Agree, quite a dull performer much of the time IMO and, I get the impression from his biography, not an amazing person to know. But I've never met him so that's conjecture.
Also agree that Peter Green was the main man in his prime. Absolutely sublime.
And according to his wiki, also a wife beater, adulterer and member of the countryside alliance
Yes.
And as said, Bowie too.
And of course, your favourites, Rush:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/music/2015/may/13/rush-nme-interview-1978-rocks-backpages
No point rising to it Rusty. He obviously thinks Clapton is ok to say that stuff, because Bowie said some stuff too.
member of the countryside alliance
Yes, he played at Highclere Castle along with David Gilmour, Roger Waters, Andy Fairweather-Low etc. I wouldn't want to attend one of his solo gigs but he nevertheless looked relaxed taking a back seat and simply playing with mates. A freezing cold Summer's evening though!
Getting back to that link, addiction makes sense. After all, he's played with, and earned the respect of, big names from the blues world who were black. B B King and Buddy Guy for starters. He's not racist.
Not racist in a similar way to Ron Atkinson, it seems.
Bowie was coked off his face for many years, and I’ve heard there were things he said that were out of order, though I’ve never read actual examples. The drugs were most likely the reason, otherwise it’s highly unlikely he’d have married this woman...
If you do out of order things under the influence of drugs or alcohol, they are still out of order. It does not excuse them. IMO.
Farage married a German - hasn't made him any more tolerant to foreigners
Sorry, @DezB, was this
No point rising to it Rusty. He obviously thinks Clapton is ok to say that stuff, because Bowie said some stuff too.
directed at me?
EDIT: Sorry, but going back through this thread, are people thinking I am trying to excuse Clapton or something? If so, please let me put it straight:
Beyond liking ‘Layla’, having once had a copy of Unplugged, and remembering when he lost his child in a tragic accident, I know nothing about Clapton. I was just shocked that he could have said what was reported in the original article. Actually shocked. I mean, I wouldn’t have expected ANY civilised human being to talk or act like that... never mind one who had purportedly respected Hendrix and played with Dire Straits, and been part of the rock mainstream.
As for Bowie, I had no idea either, but because he spent so much time on coke, I wouldn’t have been surprised at much with him.
And Rush? Eff me. I’ve got to get out more! Lots of people of pseudo-intellect have flirted with Rand, and lots still do. But that interview is just painful.
He was the poster boy for racism in the late 70's almost singlehandedly inspiring the rock against racism movement. No excuses, even being one of the most boring people who has ever lived and as thick as two short planks doesn't give him a pass.
I can still listen to his (early) music and distinguish his art from his being a **** but he is a **** none the less. Not unlike quite a few British Rock stars from that era.
Actually shocked. I mean, I wouldn’t have expected ANY civilised human being to talk or act like that…
I suspect a large amount of drugs were involved in the described events. Clapton's addictions are well documented.
That doesn't excuse it though, and I'm shocked as well - it's the first I've heard of it myself. And I think that's possibly what shocks me the most, that such a huge celebrity can say such despicable things, and for them to be swept under the carpet. It's all a bit Jimmy Savile.
Being able to strum a guitar doesn't predetermine any other characteristics. Popular music includes some some right scheisters: Mingus, Brian Jones, Baker, Arthur Lee, Coltrane, Chris Farlowe, Bolan ("he's not a c, he's a bunch of c*."), Lennon had his moments. Django Reinhardt played for the Nazis.
RAR was also used as a vehicle and platform by some bands. I'm told the Clash weren't seen as angelic in the industry. Difficult to think of a performer who's squeaky clean. Doesn't stop me listening but I don't look to them for philosophical guidance. If you did banish culture producers because of their ideology, you'd end up with pretty a thin list.
Music people , like sports people, should rare be trusted for spiritual guidance.
Bowie was also a sexual abuser of young women - along within John Peel, Jimmy Page - and most of the 60s and 70s rock stars. Groupies threw themselves at them - and they didn’t ask questions. Lennon was a plain hypocrite ....
Jerry Lee Lewis married his 14 year old cousin - and let’s not bother with Chuck Berry or Ike Turner.
Many grew up with racist views - as many did in the 60s and 70s. Don’t condone it - it’s you how life was - and how much what is acceptable has changed.
I went to a go Uni in 78. The Rag Mag was full of racist, sexist and homophobic jokes. The BBC had ‘Love thy Neighbour” on.
However , at the same time we were all going to Rock against Racism gigs, Anti Nazi League rallies, and happily cheering on Tom Robinson when he sang “glad to be gay”.
Modern Z listers make just as many stupid , Ill informed comments and tense days they have press agents.
And then there is anti-semetism, which still seems to be big issue.
Does it make Clapton a bad man - makes him a product of this time, a smack head , a drunk who said horrible things to many people because of his illnesses... there by the grace of god etc
. I was just shocked that he could have said what was reported in the original article. Actually shocked. I mean, I wouldn’t have expected ANY civilised human being to talk or act like that
Jeepers you need to get out more. It was common then and its still around now - especially in the US but also here. I have heard similar language in recent years right here in non racist scotland and similar views without the actual pejorative words from Tory politicians in the last few years
We have outright racists in government
If you did banish culture producers because of their ideology, you’d end up with pretty a thin list.
Fine with me.
Skrewdriver made some pretty good tunes pre their nazi skinhead era. I'm absolutely fine about never listening to them 😊
Clapton disappeared up his own jacksie in the early 70s from what I know of him.
How about Wagner? (For most of STW - the classical composer, not the the novelty singing act ...)
How about Wagner? (For most of STW – the classical composer, not the the novelty singing act …)
He's certainly not on the playlist at many Bar Mitzvahs that's for sure.
BTW - the comments about the Clash. I would love a link to any “issues”. The were about as right on and politically aware as any band I know of the time. Spain is having Bombs being a pretty good vignette of the Civil War.
There seems to be a debate as the “white man is Hammersmith Palais” being racists. It’s not.
Topper Headon was a smack head, Mick Jones and Strummer were pretty sound. Paul Simonon May have had narcissistic tendencies ...
There seems to be a debate as the “white man is Hammersmith Palais” being racists. It’s not.
Safe European Home and, of course, White Riot have lyrics and ideas that are jarring nowadays to name but two. But they are not racist. They are pointing out the issues around existing differences and the dangers/benefits of imbuing people you don't know personally with generalised characteristics.
Safe European Home is about ascribing positive prejudice to a place and its people and then blaming them when they don't conform.
story behind Safe European Home laid out succinctly here: https://www.songfacts.com/facts/the-clash/safe-european-home
I've a vague memory from interviews of their being mugged buying weed (resulting album "give 'em enough dope" not their finest) and basically having their eyes opened that Kingston Jamaica was not Brixton, At the time i thought the song was them taking the piss out of themselves/us.
White Man in the Hammersmith Palais similarly, almost comedy name for a great song with lots packed in, including consciousness of being white in a black space which is the total opposite of racist. Because I never listen to them now I've almost forgotten how brilliant the clash actually were.
Now Clapton, Countryside Alliance? Sounds about right.
Wasn't the thing about The Clash just that they could be dicks, and Strummer was quite difficult?
Britain was a racist place in the 1970s and 1980s, but mostly at a lower more everyday level than Clapton's outburst.
Thank God we don't have that sort of mindset anymore, eh?
I'm a fan of his early stuff up to and including Derek and the Dominoes. I saw them in '71 (I think) and he was off his face and looked terrible (although it didn't seem to affect his playing). He never spoke, IIRC. However, he seemed to lose the plot around that time and some of his later music was/is dire (Phil Collins had a hand in some of it - say no more!). There's no denying it though - he is a shit hot guitarist. And a first class c**t.
And what of bands that played in apartheid states?
right here in non racist scotland
You can telling yourself that but it wasn't my experience when I lived there.
Should have been in inverted commas - the pint being that even tho folk say scotland is not racist I have heard racism here
Bowie being a bit creepy.
Wasn’t the thing about The Clash just that they could be dicks, and Strummer was quite difficult?
I think they all had their 'moments'.
I imagine Strummer being quite conflicted and prickly about being a public schoolboy son of an official in the Foreign Service, given the punk ethos. When others were getting pilloried for being 'art school boys' I can imagine Strummer using attack as the best form of defence!
Surprised noones posted up the Blind Faith album cover, although that was apparently ginger baker's idea
I grew up listening to Clapton, as my dad used to play the 'best of' cassette over and over in the car when I was a kid. At the end of the day only his Cream albums have any lasting merit but he was on fire late 60s and gave Hendrix a run for his money, albeit a style borrowed from Albert king
his racist outburst has definitely been whitewashed, Scuse the pun, as I first heard about it in a guardian article only a few years ago and it's not widely known. It's not as though he's faced a big Ron exile
Perhaps 'Clapton is God' applies for the boomer generation
I remember Noel Redding, Hendrix's bassist, tried to sue a biographer for libel for mentioning that Redding used to call Hendrix a 'coon' which he accepted but argued that it was tolerated or acceptable in context back in late sixties. He failed. But it shows you how things have changed. Obvs not to excuse Redding or clapton
He’s not racist.
I think it's difficult to comes to terms with the fact that sometimes, the people that we invest in turn out not to be quite the wish fulfilment we'd hoped for. We have in our minds a vision of what a racist or homophobe looks like and the sorts of things they'd say and do. It's natural for your brain to do a wee flip when you discover that the author of that you book you love, or the writer of those lyrics that explained your teenaged angst turns out to have been a dick.
You've a couple of choices, reject them; vow never to let them darken your spotify playlist again, or you can accept it as a fact and separate artist and output, I listen to the Smiths, and Morrissey, and either skip by or pretend to do something else when Bengali in Platforms comes on...My partner (Jewish) listens to Wagner...she also studies 18C literature, so in her defence most of the authors she studies are a bit... [insert hand wavy emoji here]
But, blindly not accepting what is plainly obvious to everyone leaves you looking a bit silly.
This is one of those topics I was happier not knowing about...
Thanks OP.
And what of bands that played in apartheid states?
Queen played Sun City for wads of cash and were pariahs for it.
Then they do a set at Live Aid and suddenly they are national treasures again, all previous sins forgiven.
Short memories in showbiz, if you are hot everything else is forgotten
Queen played Sun City for wads of cash and were pariahs for it.
Then they do a set at Live Aid and suddenly they are national treasures again
While I wouldn't dispute your general point, there are many of us who regard them as a national disgrace purely on musical terms. Let alone political.
No argument from me!
But when they show a clip of Live Aid, who is the band who is inevitably shown front and centre?
Queen played Sun City for wads of cash and were pariahs for it.
Then they do a set at Live Aid and suddenly they are national treasures again
I'm sure the wads of cash from album sales after Live Aid were predicted.
Queen played Sun City for wads of cash and were pariahs for it.
Don't remember that bit in the biopic of St. Freddy... funny that.
I think if you look at anybody's life in enough detail, you will find they have said and done questionable things.
I wonder what Clapton things of that outburst now. Is he proud or is he ashamed?