[Closed] Employment law - public sector, dragged in on days off

Ah, I see the forum formatting is still as good as ever...

Depends as some public sectors have a tied in clause where leave and days off can be cancelled. It’s shit but sadly part of what would have been signed up for.

Dear tosspot.

I’m busy.

Love, mrs mowgli.

Can she really be required to explain why she can’t go into work on her days off?

I imagine if the emergency cover is to prevent an actual emergency - ie a real risk of harm rather than ‘we won’t be able to open the reference section of the library’ Then asking for a reason isn’t unreasonable

in the absence of anyone able to volunteer they have to choose between the people who can most readily be called in

so the choice might be between reasons of

”there’s a sale on at primark and I want to be first in the queue”

”I’m at the bedside of a dying loved one”

”I’m in another country for the weekend”

”I’m drunk”

“I’m doing another job”

”I’m in jail but I should be out on bail by Monday”

once the timeframe for volunteeeing has passed it looks like there’s very little time left for negotiating so knowing who is unable rather than just unwilling to help us probably quite wise

”I’m at the bedside of a dying loved one”

”I’m in jail but I should be out on bail by Monday”

Those are good, I'll pass them on, thanks 🙂

today 5pm to 9pm

What time was the email sent? I doubt it's illegal to ask for unavailablity reasons, unreasonable certainly, however if action was taken because given reason (or no reply) was not deemed satisfactory...

If you work for the Health service, Fire service, Police and other public sectors it is to be expected. Asking for reasons why not is so you can be discounted in the case of having to call someone in.

The thing is with emails that cc in all is to not take them so personally. Just answer it with the facts and forget about it.

If you work for the Health service

Health Service is pretty protective of working time regulations. I can ring staff to see if they want overtime but no way would I send an email out like that.

Oh and the OPs thread title is slightly misleading given no one is being dragged in.

I'd just ignore the email. Sending it this morning and requiring a response by midday on your day off is taking the piss.

As bad as it seems, it could be worse.

My Wife's Tosspot Rota Coordinator has a much more laissez faire attitude to it.

People go off sick (long term stress being an all too common damning indictment of the state of affairs)  or leave and can't be replaced (another, it's seen a very good job in her 'industry' and there's usually a long list of people who've applied or shown interest in the past waiting to join when jobs come up).

Which leaves big gaps in the rota, it's usually up to the person who finds themselves working a shift on their own, which ranges from lonely, to difficult, to impossible and occasionally down right dangerous depending on what's on that day, to beg their colleagues to work over-time to cover it.

I have to assume she's trying to save costs as often remarks "well, it's not that busy" if someone finds themselves alone in work.

Still, no one's died, yet. It's a distinct possibility though.

Oh and the OPs thread title is slightly misleading given no one is being dragged in.

OK, not dragged perhaps, but it's been made clear that someone will be allocated to cover the weekend and if they don't turn up it would be treated as unauthorised absence.

Who even looks at their email on their days off? If it's a real emergency as opposed to something mildly inconvenient for someone, then I'm sure someone will ring up.

Who even looks at their (work) email on their days off?

Absolutely this.

His wife was at work last night, maybe she got the email while on shift.

just off night shift you say

emailed this  morning looking for a response by mid day .

so when they call just say you weren't aware of their email due to the fact you were in a statutory rest period after your shift.

Who even looks at their email on their days off? If it’s a real emergency as opposed to something mildly inconvenient for someone, then I’m sure someone will ring up.

This.  Unless your contract mandates that you check emails frequently when you're not at work.  Doesn't matter if it was sent to home or work email, neither is guaranteed to be seen.  As long as they've not put a read receipt or other tracking device in it.....

for me any work email can only be accessed on a work device (phone/computer with all their security stuff installed) and when I am outside of work I was not required to log on to check email. If I was required to check this was classed either as work or on call with appropriate payments.

my contract did say in the event of an emergency I would be called and if required have to return to work. I have seen then book taxis and flights to collect people from thier vacation but they always paid for it and then some.

there will be a contract and employment handbook that details everything they believe they can do.

Public sector here, what does her contracct say, my contract specifically states I can’t be forced to work overtime. Never been an issue for me as our emergencies tend to be proper emergencies so I’d attend but when management have tried to pull strokes this restriction has been mentioned

Who even looks at their email on their days off? If it’s a real emergency as opposed to something mildly inconvenient for someone, then I’m sure someone will ring up.

I have a basic Nokia work phone that can't receive emails. I keep refusing my employer's offer of an iphone - I don't need one because I won't check my emails on my days off. I leave my work phone on permanently so people can contact me if it's genuinely important.

I’d just ignore the email. Sending it this morning and requiring a response by midday on your day off is taking the piss.

This. I'd then reply sarcastically on Monday that I am unavailable as I can't travel back in time.

Deat tosspot,

Sorry I was sleeping (and also didn't check my emails until evening). I hope you found someone to cover.

Loadsa luv,

Mrs Mowgli

we require rota cover for some bullshit which we’ve failed to make contingency for

Depending on what this actually says, it sounds a little like the rota coordinator effed up. "We've failed to" do something (is it even a "we") and now you have to reply instantly or there'll be trouble.

For a number of roles, I would expect days off to (reasonably) be cancelled at short notice to provide cover. I wouldn't expect night shifts to be immediately followed by days in order to provide the cover though.

  it’s been made clear that someone will be allocated to cover the weekend and if they don’t turn up it would be treated as unauthorised absence.

In a separate email?

TBH I'd tend to ignore any email that referenced 12pm.

Is that to a work email or personal?

For me I wouldn't check work emails outside of work hours so I'd just respond when back in work. But as above, just respond too late saying sorry, busy, didn't see email. Email is a pretty poor communication method for urgent matters where a quick reponse is required.

If she works in a hospital and people are going to die then maybe consider the benefits of going in.

If the mail was sent when she wasn't at work, "sorry, I didn't see the email as I wasn't working."

If the mail was sent when she could reasonably be expected to have read it, "sorry, I'm unable to cover the shift due to personal reasons."  It's no-one else's business what she's doing with her free time and frankly they've got a brass neck to be asking.

She should of course be flexible - it's probably written into her contract that "reasonable" cover / overtime is expected.  So long as she doesn't always say no then she's got every right not to jump at such short notice.

Work / life balance, innit.

Reply on Thursday saying you've just noticed this email in your spam folder 😉

Jesus! What a crap manager!

How to get peoples back up!

E-mail should have been this.........

"Hi, Bob, John, and Sarah. I know you guys are just off a shift but lazy bugger Ryan has just called in "sick" again.   I'm in a bit of a pickle and thought you might like some extra money.  Any chance you can cover some of the following days?

Drop me a line by 12 if you can.  Otherwise I'll call some agency staff in.  We will obviously pay any overtime you do at double-bubble and try and work out some time in lieu.

Sorry to contact you at home.  You guys already do more than your fair share as it is.

Cheers guys.  Hope to catch you later.

PS.... It's my turn for "Cake Friday."  Double choc-chip Victoria sponge OK?

Double choc-chip Victoria sponge OK?

To which the correct reply is: "No. You're dead to me.." 🙂

I don't know about any of that, but with that sort of nickname Ms Sponge sounds like a lady I'd very much like to meet.

dear toss-pot rota co-ordinator.

For future reference could you advise which part of my employment contract stipulates you can force me to work on my day off or change my rota without reasonable notice. Saves me asking the internet, thanks.

please contact me as soon as possible.

I think that settles it.

From the content of the email and what’s been said I would assume she is a hospital doctor?

Yes it’s badly worded, but shows the pressure everyone is under in the system. It is not due to bad planning, it’s a fact that there are not enough doctors.

No it’s not uncommon for doctors to get emails asking them to work at short notice. She can either accept or decline, however doctors have a duty of care which is written in to the contract

i like some of the ridiculous comments above, doctors are routinely asked to work different shifts at short notice.  I bet the same people above are the ones that moan that doctors are over paid

Bloody weird world this public sector

Drop me a line by 12 if you can.  Otherwise I’ll call some agency staff in.  We will obviously pay any overtime you do at double-bubble and try and work out some time in lieu.

Except the government have put caps on pay rates for both overtime and agency so you can’t get the staff in.

You are right though badly worded, however the rota coordinator prob earns 18K max, has management almost blaming them for not filling the rota, and then clinicians having a go at them for not providing staff/ sub standard staff

Most doctors read their emails whether at work or not, they care about people and their jobs.  If you have been caring for a patient in the week, you then don’t want them to die / condition to deteriorate due to no doctor being around.

It is know that some hospitals are routinely at or below dangerous levels of staffing.

???

I don't understand all this talk about her being a Doctor.  Last I heard... Mrs Mowgli was a Librarian.

Yeah she has a LittD.

Lol well fair enough sounds just like the sort of stuff doctors get asked routinely

What we have to remember is that librarians need their scheduled rest days. Otherwise the quality of shushing, and book-stacking can decline significantly. A shortage of librarians IS due to bad planning...

I wouldn't want to spend the weekend in a library which routinely denied its staff time to recover from a busy and mentally-exhausting role.

All she needs to do is pop in to work and look up the answer.  I suppose she'll need a disguise though in case tosspot's in - maybe go as a nurse or doctor ?

I wouldn’t want to spend the weekend in a library which routinely denied its staff time to recover from a busy and mentally-exhausting role.

I just got got back from the library and it was pandemonium. Well as much as it possibly could be. There was a queue for assistance!

Sounds like the care industry. So not nhs as such just private contractors taking the piss out of staff  And then wondering why they can't recruit new staff.

Unless they had spoken to me on the phone , i'd ignore it. If they make a fuss just say i never received it/my internet was down/went into spam/was out whatever. sounds like the overbearing and self important cockwombles that infest hmrc.