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As I say, I am most definitely not a fan of Mr. Martin but his establishments provide an outlet for those on lower incomes.
Which is why I don't judge the people who do go into Spoons, whatever their income.
But I won't set foot in one myself. End of.
Showing yourself to be a bit of a self-righteous prick here TJ.
I stand with TJ.
Do the folk who boycott companies owned by people who are ****** make sure pensions are not invested in those companies
My teachers pension ain't invested in anything, I suspect TJ's nurse one isn't either.
I can set the heating, demister and air-con in my current car without taking my eyes off the road. Same for my last two cars. Current one has a touchscreen and no voice control. Voice control still struggles with my voice too. Normally takes a couple of attempts to succeed. I therefore use other, old school means where available and will avoid voice controls if possible.
I have an ethical pension fund that is transparent about what it invests in and I will actively avoid companies where I know the owner is a WGBE. Do I research every company I deal with? Do I **** as like. I just try and do the right thing where possible and vote with my wallet where I can.
The professors in my industrial design degree 20+ years ago would absolutely disagree with that. They were spending plenty of industry sourced research money to show exactly that, all vehicle controls should be designed to be opererable without need to visually reference them.
And yet here we are with people still taking their eyes off the road to operate conventional switches and buttons. Even the switch ninja ossify above who claims to be able to do it all by touch takes their eyes off the road to check the settings. For some reason heater and demister control seem to be the favourite examples people put forward that they require a knob or button for because they are always tinkering with settings. Just buy a car with an effective HVAC system and you never have to adjust them either with a knob or a touch screen.
And yet here we are with people still taking their eyes off the road to operate conventional switches and buttons.
Are they?
I've been driving for considerably longer than touchscreens were a thing outside of Star Trek. I could change tapes without taking my eyes off the road, let alone make it a bit warmer. I can absolutely set the AC on our current car without looking as it has physical controls. Because
they are always tinkering with settings
my partner is always tinkering with settings. I could find the Auto button blindfolded at night in a coal mine. Though driving might be a bit more challenging.
Actually, thinking about it,
Do any cars not have physical controls for the heating/AC/climate? I've owned several which have had it integrated into the idiot panel, but all have also had clickyswitches and turnydials too.
Huh, Tesla probably.
Do you want to start a spoons thread?
in a bid to get back to the throbber in the thread title, I am interested to see Teslas figures being released later today. I am wondering how his recent behaviour may impact on Teslas results! Might take a quarter or two to see if his behaviour is filtering through to Teslas results, and if it does in a negative way may it will be interesting to see if he starts to get pressure from board/share holders.
Do any cars not have physical controls for the heating/AC/climate? I’ve owned several which have had it integrated into the idiot panel, but all have also had clickyswitches and turnydials too.
Huh, Tesla probably.
Plenty, my MG HS for example
Actually, thinking about it,
Do any cars not have physical controls for the heating/AC/climate? I’ve owned several which have had it integrated into the idiot panel, but all have also had clickyswitches and turnydials too.
My cupra Born (and VW ID3) have a stupid slidey touchy thingy below the touch screen or you access it via the touch screen, no buttons. Buttons are way better IMO.
Are they?
Yes they are. I'll hold my hand up here when I'm driving a car with knobs and buttons. Not everyone is a switch ninja like you.
I could change tapes without taking my eyes off the road,
How did you know it was the cassette you wanted to play without looking at it? Did you have them labelled in Braille?
Not everyone is a switch ninja like you.
That's the second time you've used that term as though it's an insult. I'm not sure as I understand why.
If it's a new unfamiliar car or you're inherently just a bit crap then sure, you'll need to take your eyes off the road to look for buttons. The difference though is you can absolutely learn it with practice whereas a touch screen requires you to look at it every time. You can't find "two switches in from the right" by feel when that setting might not even be on screen.
How did you know it was the cassette you wanted to play without looking at it?
Buttons. Besides, I didn't tend to carry tapes I didn't like so it didn't really matter.
(Weirdly, paired next to a CD player. Presumably the drawers are part of the dash and the DIN-E head unit was replaced.)
Actually, thinking about it,
Do any cars not have physical controls for the heating/AC/climate? I’ve owned several which have had it integrated into the idiot panel, but all have also had clickyswitches and turnydials too.
Huh, Tesla probably
VW. There is also a touch sensitive non illuminated pair of sliders under the screen. The non illuminated radio volume slider is in the middle.
The steering wheel volume control is illuminated, but doesn’t function when the ignition is off.
Voice control is like arguing with a very stupid Hal.
Play Kerrang radio
Sorry I don’t know how to do that yet
You did it an hour ago, with the exact same command that you just showed me on the screen.
Etc Etc.
HVAC is in a menu, with a fancy picture of the interior and red arrows for the vents. It’s shit.
There is a button to open the menu, a button for demist also.
My cupra Born (and VW ID3) have a stupid slidey touchy thingy below the touch screen or you access it via the touch screen, no buttons. Buttons are way better IMO.
I thought the EU had expressed Views (well, regulations) to stop this sort of thing?
That’s the second time you’ve used that term as though it’s an insult. I’m not sure as I understand why.
If it’s a new unfamiliar car or you’re inherently just a bit crap then sure
I'm poking fun at the god-like drivers on here who claim that they can operate every function in their cars without taking their eyes off the road. Maybe they can and they practise weekly poking switches whilst wearing a blindfold whilst their car is sat on the drive but I doubt it. Most drivers, like me, have to look around occasionally and so seems its you who are doing the insulting.
Sorry Cougar, I normally agree with you, but Our Octavia doesn't have hearing control on a switch / dial.
There is a shortcut button that takes you to the A/C screen.
I’m poking fun at the god-like drivers on here who claim that they can operate every function in their cars without taking their eyes off the road
I'm a mediocre driver at best but knobs and dials are there precisely so you don't have to take your eyes off the road. I'm really not understanding the argument against them. Touchscreen is just plain dangerous in a car. Knobs and buttons are tactile and as long as you know where they are and what they do why would you need to look at them. Do you have to look at the stalk when you indicate, handbrake, pedals to know which does what?
Back on track, Musk is a ****
Absolute waddle.
Just sold our Golf that had a touch screen but no voice control. My current car has a touch screen but no voice control
Do you use either Android Auto/Google Maps or Apple Carplay? 5 mins to set up on a Golf with a cable, and when done 'OK Google' or 'Oi, Siri' has you sorted.
I’m poking fun at the god-like drivers on here who claim that they can operate every function in their cars without taking their eyes off the road.
It seems weird to me that you feel that competence is something to be ridiculed.
Maybe they can and they practise weekly poking switches whilst wearing a blindfold whilst their car is sat on the drive but I doubt it. Most drivers, like me, have to look around occasionally and so seems its you who are doing the insulting.
Doubt away. You're wrong.
Do any cars not have physical controls for the heating/AC/climate? I’ve owned several which have had it integrated into the idiot panel, but all have also had clickyswitches and turnydials too.
The Zoe has those infinitely turning dials which run through the available settings. The only way of finding out which setting you are at is by looking at the backlit displaylet inide the dial. So instead of just quickly looking at the dial to see how many clicks you need to turn it, you have to keep looking at it until it displays the setting you want. Worst of all worlds as far as I can see. Our cooker is essentially the same, we've had it over a year and it still bugs me and takes ages to get to where you want. Admittedly it has far more cookig options than the Zoe has heatng options, but it is a fundamentally unergonomic way of selecting something.
Sorry Cougar, I normally agree with you, but Our Octavia doesn’t have hearing control on a switch / dial.
I don't recall my Octavia being that way. But obviously, there's different marks / facelifts / specification levels etc. And I may simply be misremembering of course.
I should have added, "in my experience."
It seems weird to me that you feel that competence is something to be ridiculed.
Please don't be obtuse. I don't ridicule competence I'm ridiculing claims I find ridiculous.
Doubt away. You’re wrong.
I've been a passenger many times and my eyes tell me I'm not.
Do you use either Android Auto/Google Maps or Apple Carplay? 5 mins to set up on a Golf with a cable, and when done ‘OK Google’ or ‘Oi, Siri’ has you sorted
Will that adjust the HVAC or headlight height?
Touchscreens for anything other than Navi/info and maybe radio are just a case of ohh it’s modern with a dash of money saving.
It reminds me of an aftermarket double din radio that was in a Caddy I had years ago. That had all touchscreen functions. It met a violent end when it decided to play the last radio station at maximum volume for no reason, with no quick way to shut it up, one too many times.
FWIW, our Yeti has dials for the thermostat controls (and the centre of the dial is a button for the heated seats). The other heating controls are spread across a row of quite small buttons. The one for directing air to the windscreen is furthest left (and therefore relatively easy to find) but I can't recall what order the rest are in without sneeking a glance. It does also have some sort of voice control for various functions, including audio/media, but I've no idea if it can be used for the aircon.
Please don’t be obtuse. I don’t ridicule competence I’m ridiculing claims I find ridiculous.
I can't help what you find ridiculous I'm afraid, but that's exactly what you're doing.
I’ve been a passenger many times and my eyes tell me I’m not.
Maybe ride with better drivers?
This stuff really isn't difficult once you're familiar with the controls of a given vehicle. Do you need to look down away from the road to find the gear stick or the indicator stalk? If you drive the same vehicle for several years then you know where the buttons are. If not, then, well...
Up until 3 cars ago, I only had dials and after 2 or 3 drives, I could operate them all without looking at them.
They didn't get used often so once adjusted they largely stayed untouched, but it was easy to tweak them if they did need adjusting.
Last 3 cars have had touchscreens - my current Enyaq is by far the worst. It has 1 or 2 buttons to access an option (airflow controls) but once in, it is all done by touchscreen and that doesn't work as you need to hit the right spot on the display. Really annoys me. Stupidly, I was drawn in by the touchscreen, but living with it, it isn't as good.
I suspect there are plenty people who are minded enough to remember where buttons are and can therefore make adjustments without looking. Likewise there will be plenty people who can't/won't...if we were all the same the world would be incredibly boring.
...and if Musk has his way, the world will be like that with everyone thinking the same and it will indeed be boring.
I miss having a temp guage - my car is basic so still has a 'mechanical' speedo, it would be nice to see when the engine is up to temp from a cold start.
Also an RPM guage.. not that it really matters in this car as it has a rev limiter and I go off the sound/feel of the engine anyway, (and the speed vs which gear i'm in) but it's nice to have the info right there in front of you.
I had to acknowledge a Tesla that had pulled over to let me pass on this mornings commute. It set me wondering, where VW scene drivers have a hand signal when they see one another, do Tesla drivers greet with the Nazi salute?
Up until 3 cars ago, I only had dials and after 2 or 3 drives, I could operate them all without looking at them.
My one still does have dials and buttons and yeah its easy enough to operate anything I need day to day (changing the clock obviously needing an advanced degree to do though).
If we all admit that Teslas are perfect and that touchscreens are the gift of god and arent being walked back by many car companies when they realised the cost saving is outweighed by the risk can we go back to Trump being God and Musk his anointed messenger?
Apparently Biden abandoned some astronauts in space and Musk is going to rescue them at trumps command,
Its unclear whether this will be ahead of the already planned return flight in March.
I miss having a temp guage – my car is basic so still has a ‘mechanical’ speedo, it would be nice to see when the engine is up to temp from a cold start.
Also an RPM guage.. not that it really matters in this car as it has a rev limiter and I go off the sound/feel of the engine anyway, (and the speed vs which gear i’m in) but it’s nice to have the info right there in front of you
If it’s new enough to have an OBD port, you can get cheap dash displays that show all that info. They can be a bit garish but will give pretty much all the info you might want and error codes. Handy little things.
It’s amazing the divide Mr Musk can create amongst grown adults, I mean the focus is now no longer on him, but petty bickering over the virtues or not of car controls and suggesting that anyone that owns a Tesla is suddenly a Nazi sympathiser. Grow up FFS!
I can’t help what you find ridiculous I’m afraid, but that’s exactly what you’re doing.
It really isn't
I’m poking fun at the god-like drivers on here who claim that they can operate every function in their cars without taking their eyes off the road. Maybe they can and they practise weekly poking switches whilst wearing a blindfold whilst their car is sat on the drive but I doubt it. Most drivers, like me, have to look around occasionally
I'm confuzzled as to where anyone claimed that.
Here's a photo of my heating controls: (not my pic!)
Three chunky knobs (stop s****ing, Cougar) each with a little bump so you can tell where they're currently pointing just by touch. Right next to the gear stick so very easy to reach.
I rarely have to look at them and when I do it's as quick as glancing at the speedo. Maybe you (and many people) would need to look? That's fine. There's also other differences between people, such as the fact that you always leave your heating on the same setting and I adjust it fairly often, not having climate control. The point is that with a touchscreen everyone has to look, and it's slower. There's no need for anyone to get personal here (though I kinda like being thought of as a ninja 😉 )
Grow up FFS!
Shan't. *sticks tongue out*
Grow up FFS!
No!
Anyway, to get somewhat back to the theme of the thread. Tesla's financial report is just out. Looks pretty healthy with 19.1% EBITDA margin and $36.5 billion reserves. Only fly in the ointment is automotive revenue down 8% vs last year but I reckon that's the Osbourne effect of the new Model Y being released as its too early for Musk's recent behaviour to have had an effect. Gives a good baseline to see if all the online outrage will be reflected in this years sales.
While the Tesla financials don’t look too bad the figure that I will be watching in 2025 is, are less people buying his cars. 2024 had a slight drop from 1.8mill to 1.79 mill. I think 2025 will say a lot about weather or not car buyers have been put of Tesla by his recent behaviours.
While the Tesla financials don’t look too bad
I think pharmaceutical levels of profit margin and $36.5 billion reserves plus $3.5 billion free cash flow is a bit better than not too bad.
Poor old VW with debts of $221 billion and Toyota with debts of $217 billion on the other hand....
It really isn’t
It really is.
You're asserting that someone who knows where the buttons are in their car is some sort of "ninja button" god, seemingly based on your anecdotal experiences as a passenger. I'm suggesting that it's a basic skill easily learned, based on my anecdotal experiences of driving for ~35 years.
I can operate all the functions and buttons on my car without taking my eyes off the road. It's 20 years old, there's like 12 or 13 things to press and they're all tactile and easy. I can see why if you had a car with more functions or less good design it might seem hard
I still can’t get my head around how operating a GUI that’s nailed to a dashboard is perfectly safe, but operating a GUI on a phone is very dangerous indeed.
Turn dial or slider, that’s always there and you can feel change vs press button to open heating controls, select button to make change.
I doubt Tesla’s sales will be badly affected, unless the product falls way behind. Fleet buyers will buy, Americans won’t care.
People including those on here haven't stopped buying MG, Volvo, Polestar whilst Geely motors have been implicated in the use of slave labour in China, so I doubt Musks actions will dent Tesla sales much unless he comes out and tells people his cars are crap.
Aren't Tesla's profits mainly from selling carbon capture points? Shirley that's the sort of thing Trump would normally (had not his current bestie not been making money out ofnit) consider green and have chucked on his bonfire.
I’m suggesting that it’s a basic skill easily learned, based on my anecdotal experiences of driving for ~35 years.
I've been driving for over 10 years longer than you have so my anecdotal evidence is just as valid as yours.
Aren’t Tesla’s profits mainly from selling carbon capture points?
Not any more. Automotive revenue is $77 billion whilst they made $2.8 billion in carbon credits.
Can you please take your petty car bickering to its own thread. It's been requested a few times now and it's derailing this one