[Closed] Ellen's "racist" meme

No. The one's making a big deal about it are actually being more racist than Ellen.

Given that most of us here are middle-aged white men it does seem that we're not best placed to judge whether a tweet is racist or not.

That said, it doesn't take a degree in American history to understand why the tweet might be construed as offensive.

Given that most of us here are middle-aged white men it does seem that we're not best placed to judge whether a tweet is racist or not.

This

i don't; in ellen's photo she's getting a piggy-back from the world's greatest ever sprinter, who seems to like it. in the other images (provided by the bbc to highlight the unfortunate similarity), i see slave-owners abusing people who seem dejectedly accepting of a torment that at least makes a change from the rapes and beatings.

but then i'm a white male, i have no real appreciation that the entire world has been built for my exclusive benefit, so i try and accept that i might be wrong when i make judgement calls on what issues are and aren't 'racist'...

As a middle aged but not white man - I say probably not, but there again I am not a black person in America.

Given that most of us here are middle-aged white men it does seem that we're not best placed to judge whether a tweet is racist or not.

That's why i asked the question. It doesn't appear at all racist to me.

That said, it doesn't take a degree in American history to understand why the tweet might be construed as offensive.

I sort of "get" that. However, surely it's the actual thought behind the meme that would make it offensive or not?

I'd say it's not racist in that the race of the people in the image is not part of the joke - it's race-blind, which is where we would all like to be.

However it does show some lack of awareness that the world is not yet at that point.

It's an American thing, I can see how that image isn't the greatest idea ever.

We are all entitled to our opinions on whether something is racist or not, regardless of our age, location or ethnicity

I'd say racist - no, clumsy - maybe.

[I]However, surely it's the actual thought behind the meme that would make it offensive or not?[/I]

I think in this case it's the lack of thought that's the issue. I don't think anyone is suggesting that there was any malicious intent on her part, but given the history (and present) of race relations in the US especially, it showed a lack of awareness.

Sad though that someone has made a race-blind comment but others have to then try to highlight the "difference" between the 2 people in the image. Seems a backwards step. Surely the ghosts of the past, which most people accept were very wrong, can never be laid to rest if people keep digging them up. The historic photos in that link are of absolutely no relevance to the pic in the tweet.

Poliitical Correctness gone mad. Not racist at all. I have pictures of my kids sat on my back playing "horsey horsey", yes a staff member / slave being the horse to a plantation owners daughter is controversial but thats hardly Ellen is it ?

When I looked at the picture I saw a famous on the back of the fastest man in the world.
I didn't see a lesbian on the back of a coloured gent. Having been the brunt of "humour" and out and out racism due to nationality I can see how it could be used by someone wanting to push the racist agenda. She is riding him because he's the fastest man in the world and not because of his colour. The USA is particularly sensitive at the moment to this sort of thing.

Given that most of us here are middle-aged white men

Ageist

[I]Political Correctness gone mad[/I]

People actually say this?

[i]We are all entitled to our opinions on whether something is racist or not, regardless of our age, location or ethnicity[/i]

We are, of course. However, in a similar fashion, I'm entitled to an opinion on, I dunno, the effect of EU subsidies on salmon farming, but given that I've never had any personal, academic or professional experience of it, the value of my opinion would be somewhat diminished

Identity politics continues its creep up mount ridiculous.

Given that most of us here are middle-aged white men

I take great offence at that. I'm 39, I'm not middle-aged.

The Gap advert makes me more uncomfortable than the tweet - she looks unhappy and it's a bit degrading of her. Whereas the tweet is daft and perhaps insensitive if you're unaware of the historical precedents, but it was an attempt to complement him (which he seems to have taken in the spirit in which it was intended).

People looking too hard for racist intent when there is none. I obviously don't know Ellen D personally, but I'll bet my house she's not remotely racist. And even if she were, she's media savvy enough not to let any genuine racist feeling be on show in the public realm.

[quote=mikey74 ]No. The one's making a big deal about it are actually being more racist than Ellen.

This x100. The only way in which it is at all racist is because people have decided that the race of the people involved is significant, when it's not. I reckon Bolt retweeting it tells you all you need to know about whether people who aren't middle aged white men think it racist.

I suspect all those Mo Farah running away from something memes from last Olympics were racist too. I've no idea why and the people who made them weren't racist. But, you know.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29645276 ]I hate to be the bearer of bad news Ben but at 39 you are over half way through your life expectancy[/url]

[i]people have decided that the race of the people involved is significant, when it's not.[/i]

Exactly this. It is Usain Bolt.

Next time you see a black guy shout "Taxi" and see what happens. 😯 🙄

I'd say it's not racist in that the race of the people in the image is not part of the joke - it's race-blind,

Exactly this

I hate to be the bearer of bad news Ben but at 39 you are over half way through your life expectancy

Aye, there's the Glasgow effect. Out of curiosity I looked it up, and there's even a two-year difference between where the shop is and where I live - just a couple of miles down Maryhill Road.

I get the point you are trying to make IHN but I think your analogy is spurious. You don't need to have personal or professional experience etc (maybe a little bit of academic) to know the definition of the term 'racist' is all I'm saying.

I think the fact that Usain retweeted it suggests that those who find it offensive are habitual handwringers.

I've never met her personally but anything I know about Ellen would suggest she's extremely un-bigoted and the colour of his skin wasn't remotely a factor in her joke / meme.

It's 'cause he's fast, innit!

I'm massively offended, but that's because i can't stand that woman.... Fail to see her appeal.

How is the word meme pronounced, is it an acronym or an abbreviation?

is it an acronym or an abbreviation?

It is actually a word first used by Richard Dawkins, to do with Genetics and replication.

PJM1974 and IHN et al..

As middle aged white men you seem remarkably comfortable evaluating and criticising the the intentions of a female American lesbian.

You're also kinda ignoring the fact that Mr Bolt (who is both the subject of the joke and a black man) thought it was funny and retweeted it.

Maybe you should give his opinion more weight before choosing a team in the Offence Olympics™?

Check your privilege :0)

[i]How is the word meme pronounced[/i]

My 13 year old tells me it is pronounced "meem"

Put me down in the not racist column.

makecoldplayhistory - Member
I think the fact that Usain retweeted it suggests that those who find it offensive are habitual handwringers.
I've never met her personally but anything I know about Ellen would suggest she's extremely un-bigoted and the colour of his skin wasn't remotely a factor in her joke / meme.
It's 'cause he's fast, innit!

Oh the marvelous use of the term of 'handwringing' to denigrate and negate the concern of people for the feelings and experiences of others. Notably used by the very people with the strongest grasp of social, economic and cultural power - i.e. White, Western males of above average income. So, so lazy.

It doesn't matter if Usain Bolt himself does not find it offensive. It can still be offensive to others. I am sure if I was a black person with limited opportunities and poor outcomes , I would be sensitive to potential denigration. Personally I don't find it racist - it doesn't mean it isn't or indeed is.

You should ask yourself 3 questions before you decide this isn't racist: -
1). Are you black?
2). Are you American and black?
3). Are you representative of everyone's views and experiences?

If the answer to those is no, your view really isn't relevant.

You should ask yourself 3 questions before you decide this isn't racist: -
1). Are you black?
2). Are you American and black?
3). Are you representative of everyone's views and experiences?

If the answer to those is no, your view really isn't relevant.

Does this test apply for other matters apart from race, such as culture or religion?

It then doesn't look so clear.

If it doesn't apply for the other matters, then why not?

Doesn't 3 stop annoying having an opinion.

Drac - Moderator

Doesn't 3 stop annoying having an opinion.

Brilliant! 😆

No. It doesn't. It means you can't universally decide what is offensive or not - it is relative, not absolute.

Makecoldplayhistorys contention seemed that to be that to see it as racist was 'handwringing'. I say he cannot make that determination.

jamj1974 ...
So the only way to avoid racism is to evaluate the validity of peoples opinions on the basis of their race?

gottit .. I hope someone drops Mr Bolt a wee message explaining how he should be offended, so that he can join in the groupthink.

For the record I do think that women should be listened to on misogyny, and people of color should be listened to on matters of racism.

But noone should have the right to have their views remain unchallenged because of the colour of their skin (or the skin colour of the people who disagree).

Thats racism.

^^. Gross, gross over-simplification.

Very simply. I am not saying Usain Bolt is or should be offended. I am saying that others cannot determine that and shouldn't.

I should never underestimate the level of wilful obtuseness on this forum.

i don't; in ellen's photo she's getting a piggy-back from the world's greatest ever sprinter, who seems to like it. in the other images (provided by the bbc to highlight the unfortunate similarity), i see slave-owners abusing people who seem dejectedly accepting of a torment that at least makes a change from the rapes and beatings.

but then i'm a white male, i have no real appreciation that the entire world has been built for my exclusive benefit, so i try and accept that i might be wrong when i make judgement calls on what issues are and aren't 'racist'...

This ^^ is word-for-word my view too, and very well put.

3). Are you representative of everyone's views and experiences?

Surely by saying that means you would have to go around everyone in America who is black and canvas their opinion. You still wouldn't be 'representative' anyway because potentially 50% would say it was racist and 50% might say not. There's no way you could say "on behalf of all black people of America I find that offensive".

There's no way you could say "on behalf of all black people of America I find that offensive".

Exactly. That's why saying it's definitely not racist too - is also impossible.

I don't find it offensive - but I don't think I am in the position to say whether others do. Surely, as a result it's better then to keep an open mind and be accepting that others with a differing perspective may or may not find it offensive. That actually is all I am really saying. That and that concern for the potential feelings of others is not 'handwringing'

This ^^ is word-for-word my view too, and very well put.

That is where I am coming from.