I going to keep this vague for obvious reasons.
A young person I know has just admitted to regularly using some horrendous sounding cocktail of drugs - meth, ketamine and something else I have never heard of.
I have no idea how bad a scene he is getting into. Without getting all Daily Mail about it, what is the low down on this?
His parents are seeking professional help btw but for various reasons it would be useful for me to have a handle on the severity of this kind of drug use.
Is it mephedrone or methamphetamine?
If it's meph and ketamine it's not a massive problem unless he's taking heroic amounts, your granny could take both of those.
If it's methamphetamine, that is seriously worrying.
(lots of the youth refer to mephedrone as "meth", so worth clarifying)
The latter it seems... 'crystal' was the term used.
I will have a word with his mother and find out however.
Aye, if it is actually methamphetamine then I'd suggest speaking to someone. It's a world apart from most stimulants and even recreational use is pretty full on. Any idea how regularly he's using it at the moment (e.g. partying with mates at weekend and midweek use too)?
Show them pictures of meth mouth, that will put them off it
He has admitted to using it a couple of times a month but I suspect it may be more...
he's smoking it apparently....is that possible?
He has admitted to using it a couple of times a month but I suspect it may be more...he's smoking it apparently....is that possible?
Anyone I know who has taken meth has smoked it. It's super addictive. It's not the sort of thing you take on a Saturday night and then lie in bed feeling grim on Sunday - it's a binge drug, you (apparently) keep going until you run out or keel over. I've seen people in worrying states after a few days of recreational "fun"
Bottom line then....not like having the odd spliff?
I'll chat to his mum later to get this clarified. She is more than a little anxious needless to say!
Bottom line then....not like having the odd spliff?
Absolutely not.
Without trying to sensationalise it, it's pretty serious as far as "recreational" drugs go.
OP, I take it that you've not watched Breaking Bad then?
Despite what the Daily Mail will tell you, you can get stuck into the recreational pharmacuticals with no drama's as long as you stick within a few pre-ordained rules. Millions of people have, every weekend, with no ill effects
Don't take anything you can become physically dependent on is one of the clear lines in the sand though. And crystal meth is seriously addictive! He'll need professional help to get him off that shit, if thats what he's got into. Nasty nasty stuff
Aye binners, meth is definitely the line in the sand. It's like your mate going out to buy a bag of crack instead of coke. You'd definitely need to have a wee word with him!
Nick....no.
Thanks for the input everyone. At least I know what we are looking at here.
[i]A friend of mine[/i] smoked plenty of weed, took coke and pills and tried acid when they were at uni (and for a year or so afterwards). They gave it up when it was time to grow up and it hasn't had any long term effects whatsoever.
Meth, as others have said, is a simply horrible drug and pretty much any user will need proper help i.e. not from a mountainbike forum. I know this 2nd hand as none of my friend's friends would have gone near that stuff. Like Binners and Peter, it's a line many or most wouldn't cross. Ketamine is often (in their experience) taken by student types without any serious effects, although there was a phrase "sharpie (the permanent marker) the a-hole in the k-hole" i.e. draw a big [word blocked by swear filter] on their forehead.
With nyour vagueness, I obviously don't know what your relationship is to anyone involved but the parents will need support too. Remember that and good luck.
[url= https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=faces+of+methamphetamine+use+before+and+after&espv=210&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=iUfiUoGlKa2M7AbAuYCYCw&ved=0CDcQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=623 ]Show him ths.[/url]
the whole 'line in the sand' is nowhere as clear as many would hope
the vagueness and variation is very much down to the individual, but as a general rule, people know their own limits better as they age.
you havent defined young
you havent described their situation (school/student/working/bum)
the simple fact that the individual has 'admitted' to someone not involved, is a good sign.
If its methampetamine and that young person casually doing it, im afraid its not as easy as getting him to a doctor and fix him. .. This kind of substance is nasty and its a "once in, never out" kinda drugs. For him to change it needs everything to change.. Like environment, common friends that are hook with it etc.. Some people do turnaround though but at great expense... And in his own freewill.
Are you sure it's meth-amphetamine though? It's still relatively uncommon in the UK (assuming you're in the UK) whereas methedrone (not methaDONE)a synthetic stimulant is everywhere. Shake the nearest teenager and a bag of MCAT is likely to fall to the ground.
Ketamine on the other hand is dependent on frequency/amount used. Occasional/sensible use like many things is reasonably safe (It's used in hospitals as an anaesthetic, with a therapeutic dose being far higher than a recreational dose. The problem with K (apart from falling down some stairs or something while in a K-Hole) is that there's evidence that it rots your innards after long-term use. Bladder/urinary problems etc.
Edit: Just noticed that you said he's smoking it, which would suggest methampthetamine.
Despite what the Daily Mail will tell you, you can get stuck into the recreational pharmacuticals with no drama's as long as you stick within a few pre-ordained rules. Millions of people have, every weekend, with no ill effects
You should start an educational program with that piece of sage advice. Not the kind of message I'll be passing onto my offspring.
D.
You should start an educational program with that piece of sage advice. Not the kind of message I'll be passing onto my offspring.
That's EXACTLY the kind of drug education that doesn't work though.
Kids are told "drugs are bad, take an ecstasy tablet and you'll die, smoke weed and you'll end up on crack" etc.
Then they try it once, they realise it's not so bad and that no only did they not die, they felt better than OK.
So, armed with absolutely bugger all USEFUL drug education and obviously no chance of approaching their parents for advice, they embark on a recreational drug adventure, discovering things by trial and error.
Far better to prepare kids for the reality. Not all drugs are evil, most in fact are pretty safe if basic rules are followed (unless of course you're disputing Nutt et al)..."Like alcohol, all drugs [i]can[/i] be extremely dangerous, there are some basic rules and safe guidelines which you MUST always pay attention to....".
My kids will be told about recreational drugs in the same way they are told about alcohol.
Trying to keep kids from trying drugs by saying they are bad is about as effective as trying to stop a train with your teeth. Arm your kids with the ability to make their own decisions and give them the knowledge they need to keep safe. The rest is completely out of your hands.
My wife sees quite a few young ketamine users who have permanently damaged their bladders on her urology ward.
Young = 16
Situation - studying at college post GCSEs but not to a levels standard.
That's EXACTLY the kind of drug education that doesn't work though.
Well said Peterfile. It's like trying to reduce teenage and unwanted pregnancy by telling teenagers not to have sex. Much better to educate them and tell them how to do it safely.
As for the kid in question, doesnt sound like a good place to be. As mentioned already, methamphetamine is a really nasty drug that will cause a lot of damage if he continues to take it. Best to seek [b]professional[/b] help as quickly as possible. The fact that he's admitted it though is a good first sign.
Best of luck.
Young = 16
Definitely an additional worry re meth. You sure the claimed drug use isn't a cry for attention? Meth (as noted above) isn't that easily available in much of the UK, perhaps even less so for a kid.
How did the kid get a dealer for that kind of drug though is a big question 😐
You should start an educational program with that piece of sage advice. Not the kind of message I'll be passing onto my offspring.That's EXACTLY the kind of drug education that doesn't work though.
Kids are told "drugs are bad, take an ecstasy tablet and you'll die, smoke weed and you'll end up on crack" etc.
Then they try it once, they realise it's not so bad and that no only did they not die, they felt better than OK.
So, armed with absolutely bugger all USEFUL drug education and obviously no chance of approaching their parents for advice, they embark on a recreational drug adventure, discovering things by trial and error.
Far better to prepare kids for the reality. Not all drugs are evil, most in fact are pretty safe if basic rules are followed (unless of course you're disputing Nutt et al)..."Like alcohol, all drugs can be extremely dangerous, there are some basic rules and safe guidelines which you MUST always pay attention to....".
My kids will be told about recreational drugs in the same way they are told about alcohol.
Trying to keep kids from trying drugs by saying they are bad is about as effective as trying to stop a train with your teeth. Arm your kids with the ability to make their own decisions and give them the knowledge they need to keep safe. The rest is completely out of your hands.
So let me get this right. You will be delivering the message
to your own children ?you can get stuck into the recreational pharmacuticals with no drama's as long as you stick within a few pre-ordained rules.
D.
@peterfile I am going to have to check. Someone at his school was done for crystal not that long ago so it isn't impossible.
I'll have a word with his mother.
How did the kid get a dealer for that kind of drug though is a big question
I suppose this leads down the criminal line of discussion. With drugs being illegal, their distribution naturally falls in to the hands of the far from desirable elements of society. Added to this, as there's no 'control mechanism', heaven only knows what gets put in to the mixing bowl when they're being made.
Now, is the answer to control/legalise the trade in drugs? I'm not so sure. As above, there's far more benefit to proper education, IMHO.
So let me get this right. You will be delivering the messageyou can get stuck into the recreational pharmacuticals with no drama's as long as you stick within a few pre-ordained rules.
to your own children ?
Nope, I'll be delivering the message I set out in my post.
Binners post was directed at parent, not kids. I'm sure the message would be suitably adjusted for the benefit of those with less life experience 🙂
That's EXACTLY the kind of drug education that doesn't work though.Kids are told "drugs are bad, take an ecstasy tablet and you'll die, smoke weed and you'll end up on crack" etc.
Then they try it once, they realise it's not so bad and that no only did they not die, they felt better than OK.
So, armed with absolutely bugger all USEFUL drug education and obviously no chance of approaching their parents for advice, they embark on a recreational drug adventure, discovering things by trial and error.
Far better to prepare kids for the reality. Not all drugs are evil, most in fact are pretty safe if basic rules are followed (unless of course you're disputing Nutt et al)..."Like alcohol, all drugs can be extremely dangerous, there are some basic rules and safe guidelines which you MUST always pay attention to....".
My kids will be told about recreational drugs in the same way they are told about alcohol.
Trying to keep kids from trying drugs by saying they are bad is about as effective as trying to stop a train with your teeth. Arm your kids with the ability to make their own decisions and give them the knowledge they need to keep safe. The rest is completely out of your hands.
+1
peterfile for UK drugs tsar.
heisenberg - Member
How did the kid get a dealer for that kind of drug though is a big question
Oh the irony... 😀
peterfile for UK drugs tsar.
Yup
Davesport. The problem with telling kids all illegal drugs are evil and will damage you is that it's patently untrue. Kids will find this out for themselves and if you lump them all together then the "Heroin is dangerous " advice will be ignored in the same way as they will learn to ignore the "weed is dangerous" advice.
Sorry, I'm waffling. Peterfile got it spot on.
I used to take quite a lot of narcs when I was really into clubbing and have tried crystal meth before- I don't think it's necessarily as bad as people above are making out but it's impossible to say without knowing the person involved I guess. Certainly lots of people take it recreationally without any problems, but meth wasn't really very commonly available when I was into that whole scene though. Never smoked the stuff either actually.
Most drugs are no different to alcohol in that people largely can use them responsibly or even irresponsibly without a problem but there will always be a small portion of people who end up getting into trouble with it.
I don't think it's necessarily as bad as people above are making out but it's impossible to say without knowing the person involved I guess.
A 16 year old smoking meth is on the wrong end of the spectrum IMO though, regardless of the person.
If you're already a seasoned recreational user of stims through clubbing etc, then if you do arrive at meth you do so with your eyes wide open. not sure the same can be said for a kid at school.
If my kid came home at 18 and told me they'd tried ecstasy at a nightclub, I'd not be concerned about them ending up on a slippery slope, probably just worried that they were going to start bunking off Monday lectures because they sat at a house party until sunday afternoon.
However if my 16 year old owned up to smoking meth i'd be very, very concerned.
Yeah, I don't think I'd disagree with that I suppose
Spot on Peterfile!!!
As for the OP. Ket is bad and can become addictive. Why anyone would want to take a horse tranquilizer is beyond me. Meth is up there with smack n crack but I would consider even worse than the two other evils. Look at the problem the states has with it.
Misinformation can be dangerous.
When we were kids we were told that taking acid will make you jump out of a window, taking ecstasy will make you bleed from every orifice before you die etc etc...
So inevitably, you try a cheeky half hoping for at least a bit of fun before you jump out of the window, and lo and behold... it was all horseshit. You don't jump out the window, you don't die, you laugh your ass off and you dance all night.
So armed with absolutely no information whatsoever apart from the realisation that the government and the police are asses, some people start munching pills like sweets, smashing in their serotonin reserves and suffering from depression, or suffering panic attacks from eating A4 sheets of acid. Or getting hooked on Heroin or Crack, because "It's probably not as addictive as 'The Man' makes out" etc etc...
actually ketamine is used in hospitals, usually with kids i believe?
actually ketamine is used in hospitals, usually with kids i believe?
Those who would struggle with the respiratory suppression associated with opiates I think (kids, people with breathing problems etc).
The dose you'd give a kid in hospital is huge compared to the amount someone could stuff up their nose before falling over.
The level at which a 90kg man would potentially OD as a result of ketamine (the LD50) is 36 grams!!!!!!
the real danger of course is taking even 1/4 of a gram and falling down the stairs or helping yourself to a whole gram and choking on your own puke.
Hmmmm....this just keeps getter better and better..... 😐
WTF has he got himself into?
'Good news' in depth discussions with his mother, who has been talking to him a lot, reveals it is not Crystal after all. Methadone or Methadrone....
MCAT - im sure things have come a long way, but in my day legal highs were shit.
'Good news' in depth discussions with his mother, who has been talking to him a lot, reveals it is not Crystal after all. Methadone or Methadrone....
Good news!
I suspect (and hope!) it's not methadone (a drug prescribed to heroin addicts) and we can assume it is in fact my very first guess...the teenagers designer drug of choice...mephedrone
Meph isn't inherently dangerous, but it's a stimulant and if you take larger doses it's bad. It's a bloody disgusting drug (apparently), no idea why the kiddie winkles love it so much!
Mixing any drug isn't a good idea, but as far as bad drug mixes go, ket + meph isn't the worst. One is a "downer" and the other an "upper" which is generally better than two of the same category.
Tell the lad to take it easy, he's got a long road ahead of him and doesn't want to peak too soon 😉
I know this won't be much comfort to the mother, but teenagers doing meph and/or ket is really very common. Our generation cut our teeth on weed, this generation do it on legal highs (and some not so legal!)
Tell the mother to call Talk to Frank and read up as much as she can about both drugs so that she can at least try to make her son aware of the dangers and how to avoid them. She might not be able to persuade him to stop doing it, but she can educate him and make sure he knows she's there to support him if he needs it. The LAST thing she should do is go ape shit and put a wall up. He'll continue to do it anyway and she'll have no visibility/input/control at all.
