[Closed] Driver kills multiple cyclists tonight in New York

Does this count as terrorism? Or does it depend on the race of the driver?

Being treated as a terrorist attacked according to the link the OP posted,.

Have friends from Germany in Manhattan, hope they aren't caught up in this

Latest suggests he got out with some sort of gun so being treated as terrorism

Latest suggests he got out with some sort of gun so being treated as terrorism

Wouldn't that make nearly everyone in America a terrorist.

Christ, not again. 🙁

That's awful.

Wouldn't that make nearly everyone in America a terrorist.

Nope, only around a quarter of Americans own a gun.

From what I understand, a very small percentage of very vocal Americans actually carry guns.

Wouldn't that make nearly everyone in America a terrorist.

Trump has said this was carried out by a 'very sick & deranged' individual.

Which translates as 'it wasn't a Muslim'

He was carrying a paintball gun apparently

zanelad - Member

Wouldn't that make nearly everyone in America a terrorist.

cloudnine - Member

Does this count as terrorism? Or does it depend on the race of the driver?

Disgusting that in the aftermath of incidents like this people like to pretend that there's no difference between religious or politically motivated terrorism and murder and atrocities not motivated by politics or religion.

The obvious inference is that one is a racist if they presume anything about the attack.

The intention is to avoid any awkward and potentially "racist" discussions about troublesome beliefs and obfuscate the distinction between random unconnected acts of violence and terrorism.

What makes this a terror attack but the las vegas attack not?

Agreed, there's no difference between a politicaly or racially motivated murder.

Reports now indicate it was intended as a terrorist attack.

The perpetrator may have also been a troubled individual. I'd be surprised if he wasn't.

bruneep - Member

What makes this a terror attack but the las vegas attack not?

If Stephen Paddock was a terrorist what was his political motivation? What goal was he trying to achieve? What cause was he trying to further? What size was his terrorist cell? How many other members were there in his terror group?

If you define him as a terrorist he is a member of a terror group of 1 and by shooting himself in the head he effectively ended the threat from his terrorist group.

Was pilot Andreas Lubitz a terrorist when he flew a plane and 144 people into a mountain? If he was that particular terrorist group has been suspiciously quiet since, but it's really one we should be keeping a tighter eye on.

Or does it depend on the race of the driver?

Lame.

Islam is not a race. Islamic terrorists are not confined to any particular race.

Suggest you bury your head back in the sand.

Trump has said this was carried out by a 'very sick & deranged' individual.

Which translates as 'it wasn't a Muslim'

Despite the fact he was shouting "“Allahu Akbar,”?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/nyregion/police-shooting-lower-manhattan.html

Well we all know that religion and global politics are intrinsically connected.

That's not a good reason to go around killing random people.

For family and friends of the dead and injured, heartfelt sympathies.

Probably, in just the same way that everyone in the UK with a car is a terrorist.
#rollseyes

So, kill 8 people with a pick up truck and your a criminal, get out of the cab and wave a gun around and you're a terrorist. I understand now, thank you #flipsyouthebird.

Lame.

Islam is not a race. Islamic terrorists are not confined to any particular race.

aaahh that old nugget eh?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/20/islam-race-richard-dawkins

irc - Member
Trump has said this was carried out by a 'very sick & deranged' individual.
Which translates as 'it wasn't a Muslim'

Despite the fact he was shouting "“Allahu Akbar,”?

looks like i was wrong on that one!

Lucky for him the guy wasn't in the UK - you can get several points on your licence for running over so many cyclists here.

Sayfullo Saipov, an Uzbek immigrant who came to the US in 2010.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41827435

I have just ordered Homeland Security to step up our already Extreme Vetting Program. Being politically correct is fine, but not for this!

Trump is wrong on lots of things, but not on this one.

Trump is wrong on lots of things, but not on this one.

Or possibly the conversion and radicalisation happened in the US.

What signs are you looking for that will indicate behaviour 7 years later?

Kimbers I'm guessing that article is intended to 'prove' otherwise. 😆

Trump is wrong on lots of things, but not on this one.

With 1.6 billion Muslims on the planet the religion isn't the problem.
Skipping out on the race issue by swapping to religion is also a bit lame, there are plenty of stereotypes of the races that make up Islam along with a general hatred of the religion itself.

I think dismissing the connection between these acts and Islam is wrong.

Not all Musims are terrorists but a lot of terrorists are Muslim and they feel they are acting in the name of Islam when they carry out these attacks.

So its a relationship that needs confronting not ignoring.

Am going to go out on a wing and suggest some solutions:

1)Stop selling weapons to and or bombing far away countries.
2) Stop SA investing money in the spread of Islam in the west and stop doing business with them until they sort their human rights out.
3) Regulate what happens in Islamic churches and schools, hint of extremism shut them down.
4) Remove driving licences from criminals, this a more general suggestion. 5yr bans for all convicted nutters whether its a driving related offence or not.
5) (edit add)Licence internet users.

5) Keep a sense of perspective
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
12,894 Gun Deaths in the USA in 2017.

Not all Musims are terrorists but a lot of terrorists are Muslim and they feel they are acting in the name of Islam when they carry out these attacks.

The US could make it's citizens a lot safer in a lot of ways, I see your point 3 as being a massively divisive and dangerous one as it singles out a lot of completely innocent people for enhanced surveillance based on the actions of a small number of people.

The problem 3 and 5 address is the whispering voice of radicalisation that homes in on the suspeptible who are probably already angry about 1 and 2.

I don't think it needs to surveillance btw just a sense that the authorities can act when concerns are raised rather than being worried about accusations of discrimination.

I agree with you on all counts [s]Wilbert[/s] wilburt, however, points 3 & 4 (& a bit of 2) would be very difficult.
We have little idea of what goes on in Mosques & if you get some radical cleric banging on then it's hard to do much about it (cos our human rights system says they have rights, etc etc) Look at Anjem Choudary for instance, took bloody ages to convict him.
People/nutters with no driving licence/banned drivers....still drive.
SA are just, 🙄

wow an internet license too

6 Jan 2017 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 5 6 TER-islm shooting attack at Fort Lauderdale Airport; 5 killed, 6 injured; 12,000 people evacuated from airport
31 Jan 2017 Denver, Colorado 1 0 TER-islm fatal shooting of Denver transit authority guard
14 Jun 2017 Alexandria, Virginia 1 5 TER-left shooting attack targeting Republican lawmakers at a baseball field; 5 injured including U.S. Representative Steve Scalise and 1 police officer; attacker was fatally shot
12 Aug 2017 Charlottesville, Virginia 1 19 TER-right vehicular attack on protestors
24 Sep 2017 Antioch, Tennessee 1 8 TER shooting attack on church service; attacker was injured
1 Oct 2017 Las Vegas, Nevada 59 527 CRI? sniper attack on concert; fatalities included 1 police officer and 2 Canadians; attacker killed himself
31 Oct 2017 New York City, New York 8 12 TER-islm attacker drove vehicle into people on a bike path, killing 8 (including 5 Argentine citizens and 1 Belgian citizen), then drove into a school bus injuring 4 (including 2 children); attacker was shot and injured

Extreme vetting...right 🙄 This idiot's country is not even on the list of mainly Muslim countries Trump wants banned, so what, add Uzbekistan? and then who?

We have an open society, there is no solution to the problem of trying to stop individuals (for whatever reason) from renting a car/van and killing people with it. Trying to look for ways of stopping this (other than good intelligence) is pointless and counter productive.

I'm just amazed this guy couldn't get his hands on any real guns over there. He must have been a right div.

Thoughts are with those killed and injured. Group of Argentinian friends on a Uni reunion trip it seems.

@kimbers I think Trump is being deliberately restrained, imo he well knew it was an Islamic extremist hence his vetting comments.

@nick extreme vetting applies to countries not on the travel ban list, if you are on the banned list you can’t come full stop (that’s Trump’s plan anyway)

@nick extreme vetting applies to countries not on the travel ban list, if you are on the banned list you can’t come full stop (that’s Trump’s plan anyway)

3) Regulate what happens in Islamic churches and schools, hint of extremism shut them down.
4) Remove driving licences from criminals, this a more general suggestion. 5yr bans for all convicted nutters whether its a driving related offence or not.
5) (edit add)Licence internet users.

4. Do you believe that someone intent on murder with a car is going to be worried about whether they have a license or not? And which offences determine someone is a “nutter”? And what about people with no such convictions?

5. What sanctions would you suggest against internet users who publically recommend removing the rights to free speech of citizens who have different religious views? Would it be an immediate ban, or like driving with totting up for minor offences?

EGF -“ We have little idea of what goes on in Mosques “

Only because we choose to. They are open (and mostly very welcoming) places where anyone can go and see. You might need to learn some Arabic to really understand though - but that’s not a secret code.

If we as individuals or as a country don’t understand what happens in mosques that is our choice.

and while we are on that subject
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church
The flavour isn't the problem some of the individuals are

Muslim immigrant kills cyclists on a cycle path. The ultimate quandary for the Daily Mail.

Disturbing picture of a normal guy with a family that had become radicalised? whilst in the USA.
Im not sure vetting world have turned up anything?

seems remarkable he didn't have a real fun.

New York/NJ have some of the strictest gun control laws, maybe they work.

Of course anyone can rent a truck, whatever the method terrible for those effected.

4. I used the term “nutter” to avoid having to go into detail which would need to be formulated.
Must admit I put that one in to selfishly reduce my chance of being mown down by the general population as much as a terrorist.
It wouldnt guarantee these things dont happen but it would make it harder to hire a vehicle.

3. Maybe the key is more integration? If so how do we do that?

5. I wouldnt see it as a permision thing more identification and as well as identifing people promoting extremism could be used to sort out bots from humans.