Wake and Bake!
😆
Take note of what they have to say at 6:35
There is a name for herbal remedies that work - medicine.
side effects of cannabis - delusions and paranoia.
TJ - in the nicest way possible, watch that video and STFU.
Of the 4 or so (not a massive amount I agree) stoners that regularly smoke more than once a day, who started at school, all of them are ****ed up. 2 have been sectioned, one is just a zombie drone, one is freaked out.
i'll bake the occassional cake, but I wouldn't want to have to 'rely' on dope for help.
I'm back...!
Modern medicine is completely ignoring one of the greatest resources our race has ever had, herbal remedies
Aspirin is derived from willow bark, penicillin from fungal spores, many anti cancer drugs originate from wild plants (vinca alkaloids), so your statement is wrong.
What you really want to say is "modern medicine is completely ignoring [b]schedule 1 drugs[/b]" because they are illegal to prescribe (unless home office allowance) and do not have the evidence based backing.
("Tom down the pub" is not a reliable source of evidence base).
am not surprised that a great many individuals conform to the idea that it is some how effective and efficient, the reality however is that it treats and treats and treats and treats and treats and treats people, which of course generates money.A far more effective way of promoting health and well being would be to educate people about healthy living and proper diet, however the people who control modern medicine would not make any money from that so it isn't very popular.
I do wish I could get you to sit in on our practice meetings, and come to some 'up to date' meetings, where you will see how [u]tight[/u] our drug prescribing budgets are (yes - we have a limited purse to offer drugs from.)
Drugs cost.
Advice is free.
You put these two facts together and possibly revise your opinions....
Finally - on the subject of CFS/ME/PVF/Fibromyalgia etc etc. Understandably anyone who suffers symptoms that cannot be fully explained, and hence ends up in one of these categories, will undoubatbly feel they have been 'failed' by the health service/GPs/hospitals. This may well be the case, I'm not sure (i think very few people are sure about these conditions TBH). That doesn't mean that help won't be offered. It might mean the 'help' you think you should be offered may not be.
DrP
Of the 4 or so (not a massive amount I agree) stoners that regularly smoke more than once a day, who started at school, all of them are **** up. 2 have been sectioned, one is just a zombie drone, one is freaked out.
Yet some of the most successful musicians, artists, etc in history smoked weed religiously. You have no way to know if your friends would have turned out that way whether they smoked weed or not.
The fact that people think its fine to take antidepressants everyday, yet find it wrong to use something that nature has provided for us just goes to show how brainwashed people are.
Flow you have no way of knowing whether cannabis helped or hindered them or had no eefect - perhaps they actually had talent?. Are you really claiming we could all be great musicians if we just consumed enough ?
Jesus wept I have smoked more than most humans alive and every day for over a decade [ not any more but I still do occassionally]
You are deluding yourself if you think it is a panacea for all ills or that it has made you see some sort of higher truth.
It does have an effect on you as well if you do it every day
Kaesae must at least believe me as i have done both so STFU apparently 😆
As long as it continues to do so it will continue to remain a farce that serves only as a means by which evil bastards make money.
Aye it cures no one and since we had proper medicine with research survival rates and outcomes have remained unchanged since the days when we did not use “proper medicine” 🙄
I am not surprised that a great many individuals conform to the idea that it is some how effective and efficient,
BECAUSE IT IS
Rambling on without evidence wont change this FACT
Why not STFU and let the actual people who have used it for this reason contribute,
Because their views are not objectively TRUE
read the placebo effect and FFS learn why we gave up on subjective reports
Kaeseae using your "logic" everything someone says to me about something they feel is "true" as they know better than anyone else
All the worlds religions become true [ even though they all say they are the only one,- STFU and practice this religion only then can you comment would be their counter] all treatments work if someone tells me it does.
It is not at all well thought out an approach to find truth
PLEASE READ PLACEBO
Thank god we actually employ science and reason to decide these things rather than stoners logic or Kaesaes ????- I done even know what to describe that as , even calling it thinking is flattering his posts- outpourings?
Nature provided us with arsenic and bubonic plague not the best recommendation.
The fact that people think its fine to take antidepressants everyday, yet find it wrong to use something that nature has provided for us just goes to show how brainwashed people are.
Very few people would think its fine to take antidepressants every day over long periods
Many folk think cannabis has its place in medicine. Indeed some of its uses are not really controversial anymore.
Yet some of the most successful musicians, artists, etc in history smoked weed religiously. You have no way to know if your friends would have turned out that way whether they smoked weed or not.
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2012/jan/26/22-minutes-with-lee-scratch-perry ]Lee 'Scratch' Perry: 'When I was a man, I was a cannibal'[/url]
A god, a hero, and a good example of what happens when you smoke a lot of ganja for many years
DrP
The point is that a lot of these substances are beneficial as they are, without being processed, however without being processed they do not generate funds for the scum bag organised drug dealers.
By all means develop the substances but why ignore them altogether simply becasue you cannot control their supply and make money from them.
Modern medicine has it's place, however it is influenced to an unhealthy degree by business.
aye one of the best things about the illegal drugs trade is the fact it has nothing to do with making money and all the particiapants are paragons of virtue just trying to help make the world a better place
another excellent point
Hahaha! junkyard.
That's not quite what I'm saying, I'm saying that individuals suffering from certain conditions are saying that consuming cannabis works for them and that people suffering from the same or similar conditions should be open to trying the substance and seeing for themselves if it works.
After all if we had listened to people like you all along, we wouldn't be using cannabis for MS sufferers, once apon a time the same rubbish your spouting now was also spouted about MS.
Stupid is as stupid does though and ignorance is bliss!
hahaha! junkyard you are a true comedian today!
Well done much better than your usual dull, bitter, sexually represed self I tells ya!
The drugs as you call them are herbal remedies, the only people who call them drugs are minions of stupidity, they are illegal because those who choose to use them are denied the right, we can drink excessivly, smoke nicotien, even breath in pollution every day of our lives, all of which will kill us in time and that's fine.
But if someone want to consume cannabis they are a drug taker and if someone wants to sell it they are a drug dealer.
hahahaha! keep them coming junkyard.
😯
Edited out as Kaesae edited the post I was replying to
TandemJeremy - MemberEdited out as Kaesae edited the post I was replying to
Sorry TJ enough sillyness for me I need to get back to work.
I will leave you with this thought though, a lot of research has been done into herbal remedies by the athletics bodies in relation to performance enhancement for athletes, so clinical studies exist for a lot of herbal remedies, that by the way countless millions of people use each year.
Why is it that so little research is being done by the established medical sector?
As has been stated a lot of medicines are made from herbal remedies, however research into the effectiveness of the remedies on thier own is almost non existent.
My advice to the OP is do not be limited by what modern medicine tells you is possible or the best course of treatment, research if for yourself and then try different approaches, if it works use it, if not then reject it.
As for cannabis or grass, I would invest in a vaporiser and use it every couple of days, give your body time without it or there is a good chance an immunity will be built up that will lead to necessity of increased doses.
Stupid is as stupid does though and ignorance is bliss!
so you are the happiest man alive then
Placebo means subjective reports are worthless.
nothing in your diatribe will ater this fact...it is not an effective methoid of assessing the efficacy of drugs.
In the example you cite clinical trials proved the efficacy not self reports.
ps if a herbal remedy actualy worked it would also be called a drug
calling me names will not make your argument any better
It's not called dope for nowt...
Ignoring the rights and wrongs, and going back to where the OP started it, just to be wary that, given that it's illegal and will be bought from criminals, the weed you buy may not be that "pure and natural" as, for example, it can have ground glass added to give that nice "shiny bud" look. As with food, grow your own and you'll know what you're getting....
😯 😀
STW bong olympics anyone? 😉
zippykona, if you are still here, don't just get her some skunk off some random dealer, it is pretty horrible stuff, too much THC in relation to other active compounds in it, and I'm not sure if people are still in the habit of cutting it with microscopic glass cleaning beads to make weight, they were a couple of years ago anyway. Try and find some nice mellow homegrown from a reputable source, and start small in terms of dose, especially if is being ingested, as with all drugs (including coffee!) it is no fun at all if you have too much.
I found a dooby after lunch very helpful when I was laid up after a bad bike vs car accident, maybe it doesn't work pharmacologically the same way as conventional painkillers, but when I had a broken bone and severe bruising, finding it very painful to move around, being a bit stoned took away a lot of the general background pain and took my mind off it all. It helped me sleep too, though I could still only manage 4 hours lying down before I had to get up.
[url= http://www.****/health/article-545408/Superskunk-What-happened-woman-smoked-dope-daily-month-BBC-documentary.html ]This[/url] is hilarious.
What a load of BS.
Actually, pharmaceutical companies are very much developing cannabinoid analgesics - some are already in clinical trials and well on their way to submission for approval.
Rachel
[i][b]Cannabinoid derivatives tested in cancer, chronic non-malignant or acute pain [u]proved no better than the least effective analgesics[/u], but with many adverse events, including psychotropic adverse events.[/b][/i]
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/painpag/Chronrev/Analges/cannpain.html
Crikey that is seriously old, things have moved on since then. Sativex is on the verge of being licensed for cancer pain.
http://www.gwpharm.com/US%20Patent%20Granted%20for%20Sativex%20in%20Cancer%20Pain.aspx
Er, so Big Pharma, nasty exploitative Big Pharma, who have seen a gap in the market, are now selling you cannabinoids?
Can I bring my shirts round while you're ironing?
Er, so Big Pharma, nasty exploitative Big Pharma, who have seen a gap in the market, are now selling you cannabinoids?
Yeah more than one.
Flow nobody is telling you to stop smoking, but stop trying to believe and convince others that it's for anything other than your need to get high.
The article you posted is a genuine account of how an active motivated lady became mad and lazy after experimenting with a cannabis habit - you follow with "complete BS".
What's your point exactly? Why would she lie about it?
Hugor - did you read any of the CFS thread? flow simply refuses to beleive anything he does not want to hear.
Its pointless arguing with him.
...and my shirts?
As noted above; herbal medicine that works is called medicine...
When it is shown that cannabis or one of its derivatives is useful as an analgesic, it will become one of the many options we have for pain control. The blanket silliness of those who believe it's the best thing ever because it's 'natural' because 'nature gave it to us' is simply laughable.
The best all round analgesic we have is derived from the opium poppy; all natural, all given by nature, incredibly well researched, incredibly well understood in terms of pain theory and in terms of use...
...and an awful long way from 'get your mum stoned'..
Agree TJ - its hard to sit back sometimes and not react.
Tell me about it.
I think he's passed out now 😆
CBA to read the whole thread, but from my experiences (20 years of smoking cannabis), I can honestly say I've never experienced any painkilling properties.
In fact to the contrary - half the time it gave me pains I didn't know I had. At times I was psychologically dependant on it - i.e. not craving it in the same way as tobacco, but convinced I needed a 'smoke' nontheless.
I gave it up a while back due to a lot of the jobs I go on being subject to drug & alcohol tests. I don't miss it one bit - on reflection (and I knew this whilst I was smoking it), apart from enjoying being whacked out of my brains, it made me jittery, nervous, lazy, lethargic and paranoid.
My mates still smoke it, but now when I'm in their company I'm happy to avoid it, rather than crave it.
This is true - and speaks to the serious difficulties in developing pain medicines, really tough field. We've not bettered a plant alkaloid that's been used for 1000s of years. Interstingly, there is now solid evidence that humans produce trace amounts of morphine in our bodies - amazing really, and something that's not yet fully investigated.The best all round analgesic we have is derived from the opium poppy; all natural, all given by nature, incredibly well researched, incredibly well understood in terms of pain theory and in terms of use......and an awful long way from 'get your mum stoned'..
All large pharma companies will have / had a cannabanoid program, many of them for pain indications. The field took a huge knock over an anti-obesity drug called rimonabant, a cb1 antagonist. Tackling obesity at the CNS level is risky - if it had worked rimonabant would literally have been a household name and then some, as there was speculation that it could be used for any addictive behaviour (smoking, gambling etc). Sadly, manipulating the brain's reward system is a delicate business, and the drug was withdrawn with fatties reporting side-effects of severe depression and suicidal thoughts.
Indeedy...
I've used and experienced a goodly number; Fentanyl, Alfentanil, Remifentanil, Morphine, Diamorphine, Tramadol, Pethidine, Codeine and so on. All as medically prescribed analgesia or as an adjunct to sedation. They aren't perfect; they all have more or less of the well known opiate side effects, but they do work extremely well as analgesics.
I've also, in a previous life, had a large amount of cannabis in various forms, and I know which of the two I would choose if I was in pain.
Blimey.
Some stuff I've seen on programmes about this:
- Don't just buy any old dope off the street, you want mild old school weed not modern skunk
- Heavy use could precipitate paranoia and other mental problems in people [i]who were already susceptible[/i]
- There are tons of people using it for pain relief.
I'm surprised TJ is so anti. It's a mild and non addictive drug - if you try it a few times nothing bad will happen. It's not an analgesic, but neither is aspirin, is it?
I'm also amazed that people are pushing the 'it's natural' line. Here are some other natural things you might like to try, they must all be fine: opium, cocaine, magic mushrooms, peyote, cane toad juice, hemlock and curare.
And as has been said, pharmaceuticals cos are going through tribal medicines as fast as they can to see if there's anything they can make money from.
Molgrips - I am not anti cannabis - I am anti bad medical advice. It simply is not an analgesic / painkiller. It can have a place as an antispasmodic, as an adjunct in pain relief and in a few other ways
Its also a very powerful drug.
Not known - there is a link, there are 3 hypothesis - cause, trigger, coincidence.Heavy use could precipitate paranoia and other mental problems in people who were already susceptible
I do know a little about medicine, pain relief and cannabis. Flows advice is bad advice IMO - dangerously so.
I am anti bad medical advice
Me too, but that's not how I read the thread at all. And we know it's not an analgesic.
It seems to me (in my non medical limited experience) that it would be worth a try to someone in a desperate situation. Surely one spliff/brownie doesn't cause instant paranoia... does it?
Surely one spliff/brownie doesn't cause instant paranoia... does it?
I don't know.. what do you mean by that..?
Was that comment directed at me..?
Are you in on this..?
You're one of them aren't you..?
Where's Dave..?
molgrips - for example
flow - Member"(tj) Cannabis is not a painkiller."
Yes it is.
and several other times Flow insisted it is.
My view is that the OP has not reached the end of the conventional road yet. FM is thought by many to be largely or wholly psychosomatic and linked with various mental health issues. Giving someone who may be vulnerable mentally cannabis is bad advice IMO.
And yes - one dose may well cause (reversable) paranoia
When I was much younger I smoked a fair amount
Surely painkiller and analgesic are not necessarily the same thing..?
